I think shower inserts instead of tile are fine, change my mind

BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes

I see so many comments that tile showers are better than shower inserts.

For ease of installation as well as cleaning and mold/mildew resistance, I like a shower insert better. While I'm taking a shower, I don't look around and think, "oh, it's just an insert, that's bad."

Why do people like tiled showers better, and does anyone have any recommendations for a tile-look shower insert?

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Jason Hirko

Lender · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Originally posted by @Mindy Jensen:

Originally posted by @Jason Hirko:

You want something that's easy to clean and beautiful? Check out Tadelakt. We even made our own out of a Portland cement and sand mixture. It wasn't harder than skimming the walls and will last 500 years.

Is this product for floors, too or just for walls? This looks too good to be true! Does it go on top of cement board? Do you need to RedGuard the cement board prior to installation?

Yes you do the entire bathroom in it! It gives you a super custom look and costs a few hundred bucks if you're brave enough to do it yourself. When I do it I just stack two 2x4's as the transition between the shower floor and the rest of the bathroom floor, cover everything in cement board, then slap this junk on there. I usually pay a mason to do it. Then you pay a glass company to cut you a rectangle of glass for your 1/2 shower wall, and you're done. The trick is do it all in 1 coat. Multiple coats will flake off over time. But now your entire bathroom is water resistant! Here's our last project (we used cement tile for the floor, but this stuff works for floors too):

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Brian Pulaski
Flipper/Rehabber · Montgomery, NY · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
I think it boils down to the look. A tiled shower looks more upscale/custom. I have always done tiled showers until a recent house where I had a fiberglass surround installed. It took 1/8 the time and didn't detract from the home. It was the second bath and the main bath was tiled, but I see the benefit.
My personal house has a fiberglass surround with tile surrounding it and through the rest of the room. It didn't keep me from buying it, and I like it with two messy little kids.
I am about to start on a tiled shower in a cheaper house this week... I'm sure after days putting it in I will come back to this post and sing the praises of a surround! Haha.
4 Reply
Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
@Mindy Jensen
To be clear, are we talking about custom tile showers with tiled mud bases (MMM wrote a post on these a long time ago) or tub surrounds around a tub?
1 Reply
Jeff Hudak
Rental Property Investor · Fairfield, CT · Member since 2018 · 10 posts · 9 votes
7y
My parents have the surround fiberglass one in their bathroom. It's ok. I have only done the tile showers for myself in both my places. I feel like tile may last longer. Does anyone know how long of a lifetime expectancy on each?
3 Reply
Brian Ellis
Rental Property Investor · South shore, MA · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
After installing a custom shower in my home, I regret not doing a fiberglass tub insert with a tile surround. Looking back it would have been fine, and cost way less. Its next to impossible to clean a custom tile shower, especially the floor corners and any grout a couple feet up from the floor. The glass doors also get a residue that is hard to get off.
4 Reply
Patrick M.
Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
We've always done insert- tub and shower.
Our current renovation we will likely tile due to a window... if we go tub.
I do not believe there is any affect on rent in my market (apartment units).
2 Reply
Account Closed
Santa Clara, CA · Member since 2018 · 100 posts · 71 votes
7y
@Mindy Jensen what is your opinion between glass door and shower curtain for rental? I googled and got more confused.
1 Reply
Mindy JensenPro Member
OP
BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Jim K.:
@Mindy Jensen
To be clear, are we talking about custom tile showers with tiled mud bases (MMM wrote a post on these a long time ago) or tub surrounds around a tub?
This is a debate between the tub with surround vs a tub with tiled walls. (My husband did a custom tile shower from the MMM article and it looks spectacular, but a total pain to clean those corners and it took 10,000% longer than installing that insert.)
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Mindy JensenPro Member
OP
BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@Mindy Jensen what is your opinion between glass door and shower curtain for rental? I googled and got more confused.
This is a tough one. Glass door is NOT getting cleaned by the tenant, but provides a better barrier against water splashing out on the floor.
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Patrick M.
Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
I always do glass door... some of them are a royal PITA to install... And yes some tenants need to be reminded on the soap scum.
3 Reply
Jaron WallingPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2018 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y
I'm currently remodeling my entire bathroom and doing the insert with tile surround. Tiling the walls is easy. I'd have a panic attack if I was tiling a tub or shower drain. I only spent $1700 for material/few tools and a quick plumbing job!
1 Reply
Jason Hirko
Lender · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
You want something that's easy to clean and beautiful? Check out Tadelakt. We even made our own out of a Portland cement and sand mixture. It wasn't harder than skimming the walls and will last 500 years.
13 Reply
Peter TverdovBusiness Member
Developer · New Brunswick, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
7y
Inserts leak, tiles generally don't. Plus the tile looks so much nicer. Bathrooms/kitchens sell houses and fill rentals. I never go cheap on those rooms.
[email protected]732-289-3823
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Mindy JensenPro Member
OP
BiggerPockets Money Podcast Host · Longmont, CO · Member since 2014 · 7k+ posts · 10k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Jason Hirko:

You want something that's easy to clean and beautiful? Check out Tadelakt. We even made our own out of a Portland cement and sand mixture. It wasn't harder than skimming the walls and will last 500 years.
Is this product for floors, too or just for walls? This looks too good to be true! Does it go on top of cement board? Do you need to RedGuard the cement board prior to installation?
[email protected]Podcast Guest on Show #261
2 Reply
Jim K.
Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
7y
@Mindy Jensen
Thank you. There's a very long answer and a short answer to this one. The short answer goes like is: if you're having someone else do it, there's absolutely no question in my mind that you should go with a glue-up tub surround. Ideally, the person you would be paying to do this would also make sure the alcove is paneled in cement board underlayment under the surround. I really like the latest Kohler Choreograph composite products, made of their proprietary Serica material. They are high-end and pricey as hell, and the only reason I know about them is because Kohler was lovely enough to send me some for free thanks to my Home Depot Seeds Program reviewing gig. For something cheaper, I would go with the American Standard Colony surrounds. Very good looking acrylic and much less expensive. I would avoid white or gray surrounds, because acrylic surrounds always yellow over time.

I have been remodeling my own bathrooms since the first one twelve years ago. I am a DIY, self-managing landlord who has also done some flips. In those years, I have worked with marble and granite in tiles and in slabs in bathroom renovation. In my very cheapest low-income apartments, I have tile surrounds with cement board underlayments that I have built with my own two hands around enameled steel bathtubs I have put in myself. It simply does not make financial sense to do as I do if you are not in charge of your own maintenance and bookkeeping.

That's the short answer.
7 Reply
Account Closed
Contractor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2018 · 432 posts · 221 votes
7y
@Jason Hirko I really like the looks of this one.. looks like you’ve been holding out on us by just now mentioning this!? Haha, gotta look into this more. It’s got the hipster look
0 Reply
Jason Hirko
Lender · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Mindy Jensen:

Originally posted by @Jason Hirko:
You want something that's easy to clean and beautiful? Check out Tadelakt. We even made our own out of a Portland cement and sand mixture. It wasn't harder than skimming the walls and will last 500 years.
Is this product for floors, too or just for walls? This looks too good to be true! Does it go on top of cement board? Do you need to RedGuard the cement board prior to installation?
Yes you do the entire bathroom in it! It gives you a super custom look and costs a few hundred bucks if you're brave enough to do it yourself. When I do it I just stack two 2x4's as the transition between the shower floor and the rest of the bathroom floor, cover everything in cement board, then slap this junk on there. I usually pay a mason to do it. Then you pay a glass company to cut you a rectangle of glass for your 1/2 shower wall, and you're done. The trick is do it all in 1 coat. Multiple coats will flake off over time. But now your entire bathroom is water resistant! Here's our last project (we used cement tile for the floor, but this stuff works for floors too):
16 Reply
Jason Hirko
Lender · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@Jason Hirko I really like the looks of this one.. looks like you’ve been holding out on us by just now mentioning this!? Haha, gotta look into this more. It’s got the hipster look
Yes it is my secret that I now share with my BP friends! Here's another shot of it on the walls:
9 Reply
Account Closed
Contractor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2018 · 432 posts · 221 votes
7y
@Mindy Jensen I’d say either will work as long as they’re installed properly. “Contractors” blow it all the time on tiled shower bases. As real estate investors, I’d say whichever brings the most value, whether the inserts save you time, or the tile makes you a lot more $. The tile looks way nicer when using the proper tile, and niche, however it is way more expensive to do. I think the risk of having it installed wrong concerning water leaks is way less than a shower base, and could usually be remedied in some way. Personally, I’d rather install a tub/shower combo as one piece, than put inserts in. The inserts can end up being very spongy if installer does not glue behind and place brace boards to push the walls against the glued studs. All that said, I think inserts are a fine solution, much faster and will save you $! Roll with the inserts, don’t do bad caulking jobs and save time and $. If it’s a flip, probably tile the thing to get more out of the sale price!
3 Reply
Account Closed
Contractor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2018 · 432 posts · 221 votes
7y
@Jason Hirko legend? Is this painted white or mixed with color? What do you think of just using the concrete color finish? Have you seen this stuff hold up, or are you new to it? Thanks
0 Reply
Michael Quarles
Flipper/Rehabber · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Mindy Jensen:

I see so many comments that tile showers are better than shower inserts.
For ease of installation as well as cleaning and mold/mildew resistance, I like a shower insert better. While I'm taking a shower, I don't look around and think, "oh, it's just an insert, that's bad."
Why do people like tiled showers better, and does anyone have any recommendations for a tile-look shower insert?
Hi Mindy
Question, how many houses have you sold to yourself? I know trick question...
Which is why I dont use my opinion when deciding on what to do or not do to a home... I use the opinion of the people buying or renting the homes in the area of the home..
Heck I wold never live in a home with a swamp cooler however I have sold plenty with them to folks that consider having a swamp cooler acceptable.
#1 Cardinal sin is to over build or remodel a home.
3 Reply
Jason Hirko
Lender · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

@Jason Hirko legend? Is this painted white or mixed with color? What do you think of just using the concrete color finish? Have you seen this stuff hold up, or are you new to it? Thanks
First used it in 2016 and the only problem I have had is if the mixture isn't right, you can get cracking and there isn't much you can do at that point other than paint it with a masonry paint. This one is painted to get that real white color, but in it's natural form when you mix it with white sand, you get a great light brown earth tone - not concrete colored at all. You can mix in dyes and get different colored sand for different finishes. The only thing I have never been brave enough to do is use it on a second story bathroom. That 5x10 bathroom pictures above probably has 2,000 pounds on the floors and walls!
3 Reply
Account Closed
Contractor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2018 · 432 posts · 221 votes
7y
@Jason Hirko I can imagine some serious problems with the application. One crack would be a total blowout for me as an installer. Then trying to fix it or solve it with concrete paint is not reliable long term for a shower surface that will be scrubbed etc. Putting cement board down over studs, then skimming a coat of this over it does not sound crack proof. There would have to be a lath of some sort to avoid the cracks on the seams I would think. I LIKE the concrete look and would love to do that all around. I think you have an interesting product, but I have to question the longevity of this application. So for a positive solution to my concerns, I imagine you might be able to put a strong polyurethane glue between seams on your hardibacker to avoid cracking, with water proofing behind all to keep it from leaking. You seamed to indicate using this on floors/ pan too? Do you have a hot mop and mortar floated base before it? I want to believe this is a possible solution, just having a hard time accepting it as a 500 year option or even a 5 year option. Can you clarify to us why this would not crack on the hardibacker seams, or what you do to water proof your pans? Texas slabs will be way more forgiving than sub floors. Sorry for the rabbit trail Mindy! Not sure this product deserves to be considered, but very interesting!
2 Reply
Jason Hirko
Lender · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
@Account Closed We did 2x6 studs, 3x4" plywood, then hardboard, filled the seams with a mortar sealant, then applied this 1/2' thick. Only got cracks once and they happened immediately when they dried. When we used it on the floor, we did basically what you would do before laying tile.
3 Reply
Steve Holly
Real Estate Agent · Bonners Ferry / Sandpoint · Member since 2018 · 15 posts · 9 votes
7y
As a real estate agent, tile gives a higher perception of value, whereas an insert gives a lower perception of value. Now some might rightly say, "sure, tile is more expensive", but go and price out some inserts and you'll soon realize, like most things, you can spend as much as you want. Right or wrong, tile will more than likely, give the warm-fuzzies to a buyer or tenant. With that said, if its for a rental property, I'd probably go with a nice-looking, yet cost-effective insert and get the "wow factor" from other items.
As a landlord, the inserts tend to be lower maintenance, easier to clean after tenants move out, and are generally more forgiving. If, in the unlikely event it's destroyed, it will be easier to remove, and cheaper to replace.
6 Reply
Joe SplitrockPro Member
Moderator
Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
7y
@Mindy Jensen when we built our home ten years ago, we spent a ton to have our bathroom and stand up shower tiled. It looks beautiful. But, the tile is a complete magnet for gunk. It seems to be mostly soap/shampoo that collects like a slimy goo in the grout. I have cleaned and sealed the grout multiple times over the years. I have had to recaulk a couple times. Now by comparison, every rental property we own has one piece or three piece fiberglass tub showers. No caulk because the seems are self draining. When the surface is dirty, spray scrubbing bubbles and the dirt drips right off. Scrub a little, rinse and good as new.
Ironically in a tub, you can't even see the tile work once the shower curtain is closed.
At a rental property I would never do a tile shower. Fiberglass is the way to go. As far as my personal home, I would do sheets of some type of solid surface like stone or quartz. Anything to avoid the grout.
I think sometimes the better looking choices are not always the most practical or lowest maintenance.
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