Sorry, you're getting evicted.

General Landlording & Rental Properties

Sorry, you're getting evicted.

Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

Finally going through my first eviction. The last thing I want to do is evict someone. I have an inherited tenant that no matter how much I try to get them in-line, they just won't get it together. I strongly suspect there is a drug problem behind the scenes. Sigh. Sad. There are little kids involved. These people are in their 30's.

I like these people. They live in my house that could use a bit of work and don't complain (much) about it. They keep the house in very good order. My number one requirement is tenants keep my place in good order. So, even though they have been habitually late, I have let them slide. After all, until now they have always paid and, I have avoided doing work and spending money.

This month (June) came with the usual excuses, lies and broken promises. I've gotten used to it and even laugh it off. About mid-month I served the 5-day pay or quit. This is where it gets sad. Instead of simply paying me late, they spend the money, telling me they figured they were getting evicted anyways. The crazy things addiction will convince a person to do.

So, how crazy will their addiction take them now? As it stands, they can hand me keys on Sunday or, I file in court on Monday. They know darn well an eviction on the record means no decent landlord will rent to them. Will their addiction convince them the best choice is to get high as long as possible until the sheriff comes to escort them out? Or will they come to their senses and scramble to find a relatives couch for a month or two? We shall see.

I'd guess this forum has 1000's of threads like this one...

114 views

Most Popular Reply

Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes

7y

@Account Closed

I know parts of this may sound self-serving, but hear me out please, Merritt.

We live in a great country and I say this because I've lived elsewhere and I feel that's been proved to me to my satisfaction. And in this great country, specifically in the great Commonwealth of Pennsylvania and the great State of Wisconsin, we have this truly extraordinary thing called a functioning social compact backed by the rule of law.

What I'm getting at is that you don't have what you rightly perceive as the burden of making the decision to evict them. You, as the landlord, bring this contract dispute to a court that is empowered to make that decision. The judge, a person empowered by the local government with a lot of authority, decides, not you.

If that wasn't great enough, the court is a nexus for a lot of other things to happen. You mention that there are little kids involved, with guardians who knowingly can't pay their rent even after months of coddling by you. Are these really fit parents? The court has the resources to help people get involved in that. You mention that there's likely an addiction problem. We all pay the social price for that. The court's going to provide access to methods of treatment if it sees a need.

In the long run, how do you know that you're not making the best and most honorable choice to help those kids? By letting deadbeat tenants repeatedly slide, all you're really doing is further weakening the weak, we all know this. You wouldn't do it to your own children for that reason, I certainly wouldn't do it to mine if I had kids.

For all you know, this eviction may be the most meaningful push to change for your tenants and for their children that you could help bring about. If it isn't, that's for the judge to decide. This is a process, and you're not the entity that has the legal right to make judgments about something so serious as homelessness for these people in this process, and that's how it should be in a great country.

A practical note: take this opportunity to make a good impression on the local magistrate who hears this case and all the parties involved, clerks, cops, etc. All your papers and arguments should be well-organized and you should be easy to work with. It's one of the most important relationships in this business. I hired a lawyer for my first one, and I'll hire him again if I ever get beyond my depth in an eviction. This is a business and a learning expense.

See this reply in the discussion

39 Replies

Jump to latestLatest

Sort by

Account Closed
OP
Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Kristopher Hanks:

@Account Closed
If you owned a gas station they would have to pay you before they could pump the gas. What's the difference here?
The difference is you don't keep a bed and roof at the gas station where your kids sleep after you buy gas for the first time. I have no issues separating business from emotions that get in the way of my business, but that doesn't mean I'm heartless either. My tolerance ended up being exactly one month before I filed, which I am finding myself extremely comfortable with. What can I say, I'm a look you in the eye and say it sort of person.
0 Reply
Account Closed
OP
Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @James Wise:

Originally posted by @Jim K.:
Originally posted by @James Wise:

Originally posted by @Jim K.:

Originally posted by @James Wise:
Originally posted by @Jim K.:

Originally posted by @James Wise:

Jim, you command respect as a property manager and I would come to you to help find a property and manage it if I was thinking about investing long-distance next door in Cleveland.
But that's how you deal with your reality and I don't think it's better than how @Account Closed and I deal with ours as local landlords in our cities. Exactly as you said, to each his own. I was a teacher before I was a real estate investor. I had to make MUCH harder and less forgiving decisions about people's lives in that capacity than I ever will as a landlord.
I don't see any decisions that we need to make as all that difficult to be honest. These days my thoughts are tenants either pay, or steal from you. If they steal from you, remove them. Maybe it took me awhile to start feeling this way but looking back at when I thought about things any other way I was really just fooling myself about the realities of this job.
Jim...has anyone in your recent memory explained to you that this is the textbook definition of the cognitive distortion typically called binary thinking? My Way or The Highway, You're Either With Us or Against Us, Friend or Foe, Same or Other?
Have you ever heard of the Stanford Prison Experiment?
I am not into all the philosophical mumbo jumbo my man.
I shouldn't have asked. I hope you enjoy the rest of your day and I didn't offend you.
All good, not offended at all. I enjoy a nice & robust debate as much as the next guy. After lead generation that is why I am on these forums so much after all. But I don't give much credence to the philosophical thinking being relevant here.
Show me the money baby! I'm that guy too, which makes this easier and harder at the same time - lol. I'm so confused!!! Where's my meds???
0 Reply
Account Closed
OP
Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
So thanks everyone for the replies and support with the 1001th edition of "You're Getting Evicted".
As an update, yesterday was July 1, exactly one month past due and technically two months past due. After suggesting my tenant pay me or move out for a month, I gave them a last ditch option to pay me for June, and I would allow them to use their security for July, however they would be getting a non-renewal of lease in the deal, and it needed to happen that day. I got excuses instead, and ended up filing and receiving a court date. Being the straight-forward and chatty guy I am, I texted my tenant this news and let them know a process server would be coming around, and they should let me know if they want to settle before court, and that would be their best move. We shall see.
0 Reply
James Wise
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

So thanks everyone for the replies and support with the 1001th edition of "You're Getting Evicted".
As an update, yesterday was July 1, exactly one month past due and technically two months past due. After suggesting my tenant pay me or move out for a month, I gave them a last ditch option to pay me for June, and I would allow them to use their security for July, however they would be getting a non-renewal of lease in the deal, and it needed to happen that day. I got excuses instead, and ended up filing and receiving a court date. Being the straight-forward and chatty guy I am, I texted my tenant this news and let them know a process server would be coming around, and they should let me know if they want to settle before court, and that would be their best move. We shall see.
Shoulda tossed those thieves earlier lol.
2 Reply
Account Closed
OP
Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @James Wise:

Originally posted by @Account Closed:
So thanks everyone for the replies and support with the 1001th edition of "You're Getting Evicted".
As an update, yesterday was July 1, exactly one month past due and technically two months past due. After suggesting my tenant pay me or move out for a month, I gave them a last ditch option to pay me for June, and I would allow them to use their security for July, however they would be getting a non-renewal of lease in the deal, and it needed to happen that day. I got excuses instead, and ended up filing and receiving a court date. Being the straight-forward and chatty guy I am, I texted my tenant this news and let them know a process server would be coming around, and they should let me know if they want to settle before court, and that would be their best move. We shall see.
Shoulda tossed those thieves earlier lol.
Yea...you're right.
0 Reply
Account Closed
OP
Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
So, episode 1001 of "You're Getting Evicted" continues...

Went to court yesterday. Sigh. First time I ever filed suit against another party and I definitely find it distasteful. I am not mad that my tenants are causing me a loss (disappointing for sure), but I sure am mad they took it to this point. I bent over backwards to steer us away from court. Now that it has come to that...damn it.

The event became emotional for my tenant, and they got up and walked out of the courtroom proceeding with the commissioner in-tow attempting to get them to turn around and settle the matter, without success. I get it. They were on the verge of tears and when we have next to nothing left, pride is something we can hold on to. I could say it breaks my heart (it does), but that is but a drop compared to what my tenant must feel. Tough to go through. I wonder if I will become callous as I go through this more, but I sort of hope I don't.

I have been learning about the process, and taking notes on how to act in the situation. I am satisfied I handled it well, maybe even better than many might, yet see how I could have handled it better. I am too blunt sometimes and it was that bluntness that broke the dam and prompted my tenant to walk out. I can see how if I had worded things a bit different, we could have made it all the way through the proceeding (I said, "I just want her gone".).

So, the commissioner ruled in my favor and granted a Writ Of Restitution, with a 7-day period for them to move before I take the Writ to the Sheriff. Because I am open and can't seem to ever just zip my mouth, I texted the tenant to let them know what happened after they left, and what they can expect moving forward. I have a hearing for money damages set for a bit in the future so for now, all I have is the power to see them move on.

For all you copper counters, we are currently at:

June rent $625 - $600 Security Deposit = $25

July rent 18 days and counting, 24 maximum = $483.87

Filing fee = $113

Civil process fee = $75

Parking (?) = $13

Time taken off my hourly job = 16

Future Costs:

Fee to Sheriff $200?

Property Damage $0? (likely to be, never know)

Storage of personal belongings $0

Cost to remove personal belongings $500?

Wisconsin allows for a double rent recovery, but I am still learning how they calculate that and how it applies.

...to be continued
1 Reply
Scott Schultz
Rental Property Investor · West Bend, WI · Member since 2015 · 931 posts · 598 votes
7y
@Account Closed you are lucky in regards to Sheriff and PB removal, Here in Washington County the Sheriff requires $1,000/bedroom deposit before they execute the Writ this is for the Bonded moving company. I havent had to as of yet, but when I spoke to them about getting a borrower out (i purchased at sheriff sale and borrower was still there) thats what they told me.
Always keep in mind, Its NOT PERSONAL! you are running a business not a charity, if they dont pay rent, you dont pay your mortgage and they get thrown out either way.
0 Reply
Account Closed
OP
Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Scott Schultz:
@Account Closed you are lucky in regards to Sheriff and PB removal, Here in Washington County the Sheriff requires $1,000/bedroom deposit before they execute the Writ this is for the Bonded moving company. I havent had to as of yet, but when I spoke to them about getting a borrower out (i purchased at sheriff sale and borrower was still there) thats what they told me.
Always keep in mind, Its NOT PERSONAL! you are running a business not a charity, if they dont pay rent, you dont pay your mortgage and they get thrown out either way.

Well no, it's not personal, but then again, it's intensely personal. What could be more personal than a persons home! I appreciate your concern, but I assure you I don't let tenants bend me over too far before I draw the line. I just still feel bad for them. I can't help it, nor am I sure I want to.
As far as the $1000 bucks per bedroom - wow! I do know the state statutes do not forbid a landlord from adding a provision in the lease stating any personal property left behind may be considered abandoned and that the landlord may dispose of it in any manner they deem reasonable, save for prescription drugs. However, if you do not place that provision in the lease, then the default is you must hire a moving company and store their items. Maybe Washington County has it's own laws in the matter.

0 Reply
JD MartinBusiness Member
Moderator
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
7y
I can understand the desire to be sympathetic, helping people and all that.
HOWEVER,
I see it this way: I provide a really nice product at a very fair price. Not only do I clean up the neighborhood on the house that I have taken over, I ensure that the property is maintained properly, amenities are added, and current tenants are never left with a slum because I won't fix anything or make improvements in a timely manner. To do all of that requires 2 things:
1. A motive (for me, it's profit)
2. Funding (the rent that the tenants pay)
Because this is not some 1000% margin business, each non-paying tenant increases the stress on the system, preventing other deserving individuals from being assisted. I learned this lesson early on in the public sector, where there is no "profit", only breaking even and taking in enough money to pay for future repairs. In that kind of model, losing 2-5% of income because of non-payers means everyone else in the system (all the ratepayers, tax payers, etc) must suffer because there's no magic pot of money to suck it up for these people. So by me being "nice" to these non-payers, I'm forcing the 98% to suffer a fate of higher costs and degraded services.
Finally, a story: once, years ago, early in my career, a young girl came to the office after her water had been turned off. She had a little baby and we had mercy on her and let her get reconnected, with a promise to pay in a week or something like that when they got paid. That week, no payment, so she was shut back off. Came back in with another sob story how their car broke down and they had to use that money to pay to fix the car. OK, gave them a couple more days. Day before they were supposed to pay the property owner came in and asked if they had turned off the water, because they had skipped town owing several months worth of rent. Guy claimed they had 2 vehicles, and just packed up and left in the middle of the night. He ended up stuck with the unpaid water bill because state law had the property owner responsible for all utilities on a property back then. While it was his choice to let them put the water in their name when he had to maintain ultimate responsibility, and that he didn't start eviction proceedings on them earlier, I felt bad that we allowed the bill to climb a few more dollars by turning it back on for deadbeats that were just working the system.
My take on the rental business is you either run a business or a charity. There's nothing wrong with either approach but one should know which endeavor they're after, because the required approach differs significantly.
Podcast Guest on Show #243
Skyline Properties
View Page
2 Reply
Kelen Weathers
Member since 2019 · 8 posts · 3 votes
7y
I have paid tenants to leave before. Instead of going through the long and costly eviction process you have 1 week to move out and I'll meet you with $200 when you turn over keys. Makes it faster and if they have an issues like you suspect they will take it and run. This also limits the time they have to damage you property when they are getting removed. It can take months for the system to remove them.
0 Reply
Scott Schultz
Rental Property Investor · West Bend, WI · Member since 2015 · 931 posts · 598 votes
7y
The Sheriffs Dept has its own rule, if you dont use the bonded service, you get it back, but still I think its nuts.
Regarding the feelings side, this is one of the many great arguments for having a Property manager, we unfortunately have had to evict a few tenants, however I have never been to court for them, my Managers have always represented. Great management takes the emotion out of the business, for me I would struggle with this so I let someone else do it.

Originally posted by @Account Closed

Well no, it's not personal, but then again, it's intensely personal. What could be more personal than a persons home! I appreciate your concern, but I assure you I don't let tenants bend me over too far before I draw the line. I just still feel bad for them. I can't help it, nor am I sure I want to.
As far as the $1000 bucks per bedroom - wow! I do know the state statutes do not forbid a landlord from adding a provision in the lease stating any personal property left behind may be considered abandoned and that the landlord may dispose of it in any manner they deem reasonable, save for prescription drugs. However, if you do not place that provision in the lease, then the default is you must hire a moving company and store their items. Maybe Washington County has it's own laws in the matter.

1 Reply
Marcus Auerbach
Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:
So, episode 1001 of "You're Getting Evicted" continues...

Went to court yesterday. Sigh. First time I ever filed suit against another party and I definitely find it distasteful. I am not mad that my tenants are causing me a loss (disappointing for sure), but I sure am mad they took it to this point. I bent over backwards to steer us away from court. Now that it has come to that...damn it.

The event became emotional for my tenant, and they got up and walked out of the courtroom proceeding with the commissioner in-tow attempting to get them to turn around and settle the matter, without success. I get it. They were on the verge of tears and when we have next to nothing left, pride is something we can hold on to. I could say it breaks my heart (it does), but that is but a drop compared to what my tenant must feel. Tough to go through. I wonder if I will become callous as I go through this more, but I sort of hope I don't.

I have been learning about the process, and taking notes on how to act in the situation. I am satisfied I handled it well, maybe even better than many might, yet see how I could have handled it better. I am too blunt sometimes and it was that bluntness that broke the dam and prompted my tenant to walk out. I can see how if I had worded things a bit different, we could have made it all the way through the proceeding (I said, "I just want her gone".).

So, the commissioner ruled in my favor and granted a Writ Of Restitution, with a 7-day period for them to move before I take the Writ to the Sheriff. Because I am open and can't seem to ever just zip my mouth, I texted the tenant to let them know what happened after they left, and what they can expect moving forward. I have a hearing for money damages set for a bit in the future so for now, all I have is the power to see them move on.

For all you copper counters, we are currently at:

June rent $625 - $600 Security Deposit = $25

July rent 18 days and counting, 24 maximum = $483.87

Filing fee = $113

Civil process fee = $75

Parking (?) = $13

Time taken off my hourly job = 16

Future Costs:

Fee to Sheriff $200?

Property Damage $0? (likely to be, never know)

Storage of personal belongings $0

Cost to remove personal belongings $500?

Wisconsin allows for a double rent recovery, but I am still learning how they calculate that and how it applies.

...to be continued

Sorry you had to go through this, I know you tried your best to avoid this. I wish the MJSentinel would pick up on that side and not just how evil landlords are. And BTW Merritt, you are a gifted writer!
1 Reply
Account Closed
OP
Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @JD Martin:
I can understand the desire to be sympathetic, helping people and all that.
HOWEVER,
I see it this way: I provide a really nice product at a very fair price. Not only do I clean up the neighborhood on the house that I have taken over, I ensure that the property is maintained properly, amenities are added, and current tenants are never left with a slum because I won't fix anything or make improvements in a timely manner. To do all of that requires 2 things:
1. A motive (for me, it's profit)
2. Funding (the rent that the tenants pay)
Because this is not some 1000% margin business, each non-paying tenant increases the stress on the system, preventing other deserving individuals from being assisted. I learned this lesson early on in the public sector, where there is no "profit", only breaking even and taking in enough money to pay for future repairs. In that kind of model, losing 2-5% of income because of non-payers means everyone else in the system (all the ratepayers, tax payers, etc) must suffer because there's no magic pot of money to suck it up for these people. So by me being "nice" to these non-payers, I'm forcing the 98% to suffer a fate of higher costs and degraded services.
Finally, a story: once, years ago, early in my career, a young girl came to the office after her water had been turned off. She had a little baby and we had mercy on her and let her get reconnected, with a promise to pay in a week or something like that when they got paid. That week, no payment, so she was shut back off. Came back in with another sob story how their car broke down and they had to use that money to pay to fix the car. OK, gave them a couple more days. Day before they were supposed to pay the property owner came in and asked if they had turned off the water, because they had skipped town owing several months worth of rent. Guy claimed they had 2 vehicles, and just packed up and left in the middle of the night. He ended up stuck with the unpaid water bill because state law had the property owner responsible for all utilities on a property back then. While it was his choice to let them put the water in their name when he had to maintain ultimate responsibility, and that he didn't start eviction proceedings on them earlier, I felt bad that we allowed the bill to climb a few more dollars by turning it back on for deadbeats that were just working the system.
My take on the rental business is you either run a business or a charity. There's nothing wrong with either approach but one should know which endeavor they're after, because the required approach differs significantly.

This is a great post - thank you. You are so right about how non-paying tenants take money out of the system, which in-turn affects everyone. Despite my bleeding heart, I also run my business as a business, and approach my business as you do, providing a good product at a fair price.

I know what I have written in this thread will lead some to believe I am a push-over and just need to become callous and more "business like". I find that take disappointing, as all I am really expressing is how this is a people business, people are messy, and emotions are part of it. I have a feeling you see my side of it. What can I say, I don't want to be an emotionless drone, I prefer to be a sentient human being. To me, it is unhealthy to attempt to shut off the emotional side of this business. If I really needed to shut off the emotion because I just couldn't handle it, I might pick a different business, maybe selling hot dogs or cutting grass for instance or, simply hire a property manager to mop up the mess.

But back to what you were sort of getting at and what Marcus touched on. Landlords are with small exception, good people who want to do good things while earning a profit. I have yet to hear of a single landlord who wakes up in the morning hoping they can evict someone, or hoping they can provide a craphole to live in. Rather, we tend to do the best we can with the resources we have for all involved. Why? Because this is in fact a people business, and providing good things for good people is good business. Every penny we lose to uncollected rent or property destruction is less money we have to throw around. And finally as a math guy, penny counter and sentient being, I might add up all the money we "provide" to the world by way of lost rent and property damage, count that as charity, and conclude we just might be the most giving group of individuals on the planet. That's the side of the story that never seems to get told, and also why I understand when other landlords come off with an attitude that may appear on the surface to be harsh, though really is frustration that we don't get credit for all the good we do.
1 Reply
JD MartinBusiness Member
Moderator
Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
7y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

This is a great post - thank you. You are so right about how non-paying tenants take money out of the system, which in-turn affects everyone. Despite my bleeding heart, I also run my business as a business, and approach my business as you do, providing a good product at a fair price.

I know what I have written in this thread will lead some to believe I am a push-over and just need to become callous and more "business like". I find that take disappointing, as all I am really expressing is how this is a people business, people are messy, and emotions are part of it. I have a feeling you see my side of it. What can I say, I don't want to be an emotionless drone, I prefer to be a sentient human being. To me, it is unhealthy to attempt to shut off the emotional side of this business. If I really needed to shut off the emotion because I just couldn't handle it, I might pick a different business, maybe selling hot dogs or cutting grass for instance or, simply hire a property manager to mop up the mess.

But back to what you were sort of getting at and what Marcus touched on. Landlords are with small exception, good people who want to do good things while earning a profit. I have yet to hear of a single landlord who wakes up in the morning hoping they can evict someone, or hoping they can provide a craphole to live in. Rather, we tend to do the best we can with the resources we have for all involved. Why? Because this is in fact a people business, and providing good things for good people is good business. Every penny we lose to uncollected rent or property destruction is less money we have to throw around. And finally as a math guy, penny counter and sentient being, I might add up all the money we "provide" to the world by way of lost rent and property damage, count that as charity, and conclude we just might be the most giving group of individuals on the planet. That's the side of the story that never seems to get told, and also why I understand when other landlords come off with an attitude that may appear on the surface to be harsh, though really is frustration that we don't get credit for all the good we do.

Thanks :) I certainly don't think you're a pushover, and even if I did it wouldn't matter as everyone has to run their business as they see fit. Ultimately, the market and a little bit of luck will make the determination what businesses are run "right" or "wrong". And if you are not a "people" person it will be really hard to make it in this business long-term, because whether you are managing tenants, contractors, property managers, brokers, or employees, this is a business that requires constant interaction with others.
Aside from that, even the hard-asses have soft spots and lines that they let people cross. We all do. It is the rare individual that enforces every provision within a lease to the letter, every time, no exceptions. Most of life is gray and flexibility, not rigidity, is usually the key to surviving and thriving. If you can find a way of tempering your weak spots with someone else's strengths, and vice versa, you usually have a winning formula. In my business, for example, my wife is a hard-*** when it comes to cleaning, damage, and things like that. I'm a little soft on those things. Conversely, I'm a hard-*** on rent on time, every time, no exceptions, while she would be more likely to let people slide. One tempers the other.
Finally, there's nothing wrong with a little bit of charity in life, even in business. Most businesses have nothing to gain other than goodwill by giving away profits to charities. It's the same as landlords. Garnering a little goodwill in life is an asset like anything else.

Podcast Guest on Show #243
Skyline Properties
View Page
1 Reply

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.

Log In Join for Free