Fremont, CA · Member since 2012 · 122 posts · 18 votes
Well, I just got a message from them that they want me to get the house tested for lead and asbestos, and they need those tests before they will give a deposit. Is this reasonable?? They *do* have a 10-month-old boy, but this just seems "out of the blue". I haven't seen any discussions here about lead or asbestos testing; have I just missed them?
Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y
Originally posted by Daniel Miller:
Well, I just got a message from them that they want me to get the house tested for lead and asbestos, and they need those tests before they will give a deposit. Is this reasonable?? They *do* have a 10-month-old boy, but this just seems "out of the blue". I haven't seen any discussions here about lead or asbestos testing; have I just missed them?
I would move on to someone else. That is an odd request. They are trying to establish themselves as the boss.
As far as asbestos goes, it's only harmful if you're removing it, or it's flaky and getting in the air. I don't know what kind of house this is, but asbestos is not that common. Usually you see it on the pipes of old boilers, on old floor tiles in the basement, or on siding.
As far as lead, same thing. It's only harmful if you're removing it or it's flaking. Any house built before 1978 can have lead paint. It's probably under 15 layers of paint. The older the house is, the more likely to have lead. You will fill out a lead paint form for your tenants stating if and where the lead is, or that you have no knowledge of lead.
If you were to give in to their lead test demand and you find lead paint, so what? Most old houses have it somewhere, but now you would have to disclose the presence of lead paint FOREVER. This will scare a lot of people down the road. You're way better off not knowing about it. It's a lot easier to tell a tenant or buyer, "I don't know about any lead paint here. Just don't eat any paint chips if you see them." As opposed to, "Here is the lead paint report. There is lead everywhere in this house. You should read this EPA lead paint book from cover to cover as this house is loaded with lead."
Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y
Originally posted by Daniel Miller:
Well, I just got a message from them that they want me to get the house tested for lead and asbestos, and they need those tests before they will give a deposit. Is this reasonable?? They *do* have a 10-month-old boy, but this just seems "out of the blue". I haven't seen any discussions here about lead or asbestos testing; have I just missed them?
I would move on to someone else. That is an odd request. They are trying to establish themselves as the boss.
As far as asbestos goes, it's only harmful if you're removing it, or it's flaky and getting in the air. I don't know what kind of house this is, but asbestos is not that common. Usually you see it on the pipes of old boilers, on old floor tiles in the basement, or on siding.
As far as lead, same thing. It's only harmful if you're removing it or it's flaking. Any house built before 1978 can have lead paint. It's probably under 15 layers of paint. The older the house is, the more likely to have lead. You will fill out a lead paint form for your tenants stating if and where the lead is, or that you have no knowledge of lead.
If you were to give in to their lead test demand and you find lead paint, so what? Most old houses have it somewhere, but now you would have to disclose the presence of lead paint FOREVER. This will scare a lot of people down the road. You're way better off not knowing about it. It's a lot easier to tell a tenant or buyer, "I don't know about any lead paint here. Just don't eat any paint chips if you see them." As opposed to, "Here is the lead paint report. There is lead everywhere in this house. You should read this EPA lead paint book from cover to cover as this house is loaded with lead."
Investor · Statewide, MO · Member since 2011 · 815 posts · 425 votes
13y
Run.
There's plenty of other non worry warts out there. The likelihood of problems down the road is much greater when they 1) make a curious demand 2) set tough conditions prior to move in.
Run.
There's lead and asbestos in many homes, not hurting anyone. Some governmental agencies have spent well into the 10s to100s of millions promoting scare tactics (advertisements), and clearly, it works.
Fremont, CA · Member since 2012 · 122 posts · 18 votes
13y
Thank you all for the quick responses! That's what I've been feeling too. They had other requests that were making me nervous, such as wanting to repaint rooms and change draperies. Even the auto-pay offer, sort of felt like enhanced bait to keep me biting (they could set that up on their own without discussing it with me).
I'm going to just let this one go, and get some more experience interviewing people!
The older duct work that was 6” and called “spider legs” was some times covered in a paper with asbestosis in it. Same with the old oil and gas heating systems. The old heat / water lines were also covered in it. There were a few different types of addict insulation that had it. It was in joint compound, popcorn ceiling mud, paint, linoleum tiles and sheets, and almost ever other product that you could buy.
But the true issue you need to talk to them about is how many items that they have bought over the last 5 years have asbestosis in it and have they had it tested. Asbestosis is still being used in manufacturing today and is being sold to us in the USA with out any kind of notice.
There is nothing wrong with lead. Think of how many housewives sat around at home every day drinking water out of pipes that had lead solder, the kids that drank the water at home and went to school to drink the water also, or the man of the house that went to work every day to do the same. Look at how many homes still have copper piping with lead solder. I would bet that more than half the houses I have sold or currently still renting have at least a couple of fittings that were done with lead.
Lead paint can be more harmful. When it chips the dust can get into your lungs and that is what caused the issues. “Lead white” paint was about 3 times the cost of regular paint. If your dealing with lower income property and it has been for years a lot of time you will not see much lead paint.
Did she ask about copper piping? Every item that is sold in CA that has copper in it must have a warning. My under standing is it can be more deadly than lead, but I might be wrong.
Even if someone tested you home for asbestosis and lead you would still have to use lead and asbestosis forums when selling and renting according to laws. The testing dose not get you out of the requirements.
I bet that if you did rent to her she would be calling the health department at least 4 times a year about something.
Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
13y
Daniel Miller I would ask these people if they had their 10 month old's toys tested for lead. China still uses lead paint in their sweatshops. There's a good chance that their baby is chewing on Chinese lead paint right now.
Real Estate Investor · chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 231 votes
13y
Rob K you gotta write a book...& when you do, I will be the 1st in line to buy it.
Daniel Miller i think you should hire a PM to get you rolling. Once you get more experience, you can then take over. Isn't this the same tenants who wanted to move in a couple weeks earlier? Move on.
Real Estate Investor · chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 231 votes
13y
i once had a prospect look @ my place. place was in immaculate shape.
we went out in the backyard & he pointed out a pingball sized whole in the fascia (a varmit must've caused it). i had never noticed it before. i got it fixed w/ some putty but i was like if he's that anal, there's no way i'm renting it to him.
Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
13y
Oh man. I think you already know what I think about the situation with these tenants. I wouldn't let them near my house. It would be one thing if they had said they had these concerns when they applied and asked to do the tests asap at their expense. For sure the house has lead. For sure the house has asbestos. It's not about whether it exists, it's about what level they are willing to live with. I doubt they could tell you that.
BTW I'm no stranger to lead issues as my oldest daughter tested high (over the acceptable limits) when she was an infant. We lived in an old brownstone in Jersey City and the water tested off the charts due to lead solder. The soil in the yard tested at super fund clean up levels. But so did everyone else's in the neighborhood. Again, I think the issue is what we can reasonably remediate and what we are willing to live with. As a landlord you want to be on the same page about these kinds of things.
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
13y
The more you write, Daniel Miller the more I think these folks are really trying to scam you. In your other post, you said they gave you a check for the deposit and first months rent. Now they're getting flaky. If you tell them "no" to these demands they're going to say "fine", give us our money back and we'll find another place. You give them a check or cash or whatever. A month from now their check goes away and you're out the money.
Now, I fully admit I'm not very trusting and always looking for the scam in things. But the red flags just keep popping up on this one.
You're not renting to these people. Even if they're totally legit, they've shown their true colors. And those colors are "picky pains the rear". So you need to tell them its not going to work out. But before you give them any money back, you need to speak with your bank and find out to be sure the check they gave you cannot be cancelled or otherwise stopped and the money taken back. If there is some way for that to happen, tell these folks to go to their bank and do it. Stop payment or whatever.
Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
13y
Jon Holdman The good news is that the OP wasn't scheduled to get the deposit and rent checks until this weekend. So he can just tell them it won't work out and move on. And maybe even come out ahead and find a tenant for November 1!
Fremont, CA · Member since 2012 · 122 posts · 18 votes
13y
Yes, fortunately no money had changed hands yet, and no contract signed. I sent them a curt but courteous "application denied" letter, and have just re-listed the house.
And you can be sure that with the next people I talk with, I will be more conscious of the issues that we have been discussing here!!!
Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
13y
Originally posted by K. Marie Poe:
Jon Holdman The good news is that the OP wasn't scheduled to get the deposit and rent checks until this weekend. So he can just tell them it won't work out and move on. And maybe even come out ahead and find a tenant for November 1!
Whew! I wasn't clear on exactly when the money was changing hands and thought it already had.
Even for my little tough-to-rent house (small, no garage) I would reasonable expect to have a tenant Nov 1. I find most people want to move in on the first or a few days ahead of time, so I get much more activity late in the month than early. And fewer lookie-loos who are wanting something for the future.
Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
13y
Daniel Miller - in what year was the house constructed? For houses built before 1978, there is Federal law that requires certain disclosures for lead based paint; and in some areas I know that there are local rules on lead based paint that must be followed (Philadelphia for example has its own additional lead based paint disclosure requirements). The Federal law applies for either sale or rental of a house; the local laws will vary of course.
So, you might have been obligated to provide a pamphlet and disclosure form before signing a lease if this house is pre-1978.
Fremont, CA · Member since 2012 · 122 posts · 18 votes
13y
Oh... the house was built, I think in the late 1960's. My parents bought it in... 1971?? I think so. It had already existed for a few years before that. So do I actually have to do testing?? Or just provide a standard disclosure form?
The existing paint in the house is in excellent condition, no peeling.
I wonder if I should get soil tests done, though? We have bare soil in the back yard...
Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
13y
Originally posted by Daniel Miller:
Oh... the house was built, I think in the late 1960's. My parents bought it in... 1971?? I think so. It had already existed for a few years before that. So do I actually have to do testing?? Or just provide a standard disclosure form?
The existing paint in the house is in excellent condition, no peeling.
I wonder if I should get soil tests done, though? We have bare soil in the back yard...
You do not have to test anything by law, so I would advise to NOT test anything, just as Rob K already mentioned. By Federal law, you will have to disclose certain things - there is a form you can get from HUD that has the disclosure information. And you will have to give them a pamphlet that comes from HUD as well. You might have local requirements to comply with as well - I don't know that area so can't comment further on that. Leave the soil out of this - people aren't living outdoors, they are living inside, and that is the environment that you are expected to be disclosing.
Real Estate Broker · San Diego, CA · Member since 2012 · 104 posts · 20 votes
13y
Daniel Miller: If you are using the standard C.A.R. residential lease form, section 23 addresses lead-based paint. Check that box for section 23, give them the additional C.A.R. "form FLD" and make sure they sign it, and give them a copy of the "federally approved lead pamphlet." I belive you can get the pamphlet on the www.epa.gov website.
Fremont, CA · Member since 2012 · 122 posts · 18 votes
13y
I was actually using the Lease Agreement document from this website. IIRC, it didn't have anything about lead... I'll have to check tonite.
What is C.A.R. ?? (yes, I actually tried to search google for "c.a.r. lease agreement"... obviously, that didn't work very well). I should get their lease agreement form, compare with B.P.'s, and decide what I want from each.
Real Estate Broker · San Diego, CA · Member since 2012 · 104 posts · 20 votes
13y
C.A.R. = California Association of Realtors. Google "car form fld." In the search results should get a link to the pdf form on the www.car.org website.
Real Estate Broker · Long Beach, CA · Member since 2012 · 17 posts · 0 votes
13y
That is interesting. I guess it depends on your location. I had a couple in Arizona complain about scorpions coming from the ceiling in a new home. I never saw one but I guess all it takes is one. Bugs and insects can always come back. never underestimate them even with a spray/cleaning.