Issue with a tenants kid

Issue with a tenants kid

Queens, NY · Member since 2016 · 58 posts · 7 votes

We currently own a two family home and have a family of four living upstairs. The youngest whose around twelve years old loves to run around and bounce a ball off the hardwood floors.

We understand what we got ourselves into when we decided to live under our tenants. They have hardwood floors upstairs. We can hear when they're walking, even louder when they have heels or dress shoes on, and the kids loud crying screams when he's getting disciplined, etc. We aren't going to tell them to no tippy toe around the house or how to raise their kid.

Where we draw the line is when the kid starts bouncing a ball or running in the house. When I was growing up we weren't allowed to do those things and if I did, I'd get disciplined.  We sent a text about it and shortly after it sounded like the kid made a really loud stomping noise. I don't know if that was his little way of retaliating. The mother hasn't responded to our text.

Where do you guys draw the line ?

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Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 215 posts · 129 votes
6y

Add more soundproofing.

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  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    6y

    In an up and down, you are more or less limited to damage or vandalism to the house. Other than that you suffer. I lived in apartments all my life growing up and some people suck as neighbors. Also a reason I always preferred to live upstairs. 

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  • Rental Property Investor · Clearwater & Daytona Beach, FL · Member since 2019 · 194 posts · 197 votes
    6y

    This is the downside to house hacking. I don’t think they are doing anything out of the normal for a family of 4 with young ones. Try to get a family without kids next time around.

  • Richmond, VA · Member since 2016 · 215 posts · 129 votes
    6y

    Add more soundproofing.

  • Real Estate Investor · Desoto, TX · Member since 2013 · 560 posts · 528 votes
    6y

    It is like applying to job, accepting the job, but then hating the place you work. You simply find another place to work. On a more serious note, to the extent legal, get your rules (whatever they are) in place in the lease so that you have recourse. I moved into an older neighborhood. Didn't really think about older people and their ways. They called the cops on me twice for me and my 8 year son playing basketball in the front of the house. My bad for moving into a neighborhood of old people. Now I am moving, lol.

  • Catskill, NY · Member since 2018 · 636 posts · 668 votes
    6y

    Sounds like a kid being a kid. Unfortunately I don't think there is much you can do, short of not renewing their lease when it comes time for renewal. I know most leases have a section about "the right to quiet enjoyment" but I don't think this would hold up well in court if you were to try to evict.

    Just be happy the kid(s) are home and not out running the streets doing much worse things. There are times I apologize to my neighbors for how loud my house is over the summer. The response is usually similar to what I just said or "I think you have the most fun house in the area."

    Also, like Mark said, add some soundproofing between the floors. Might be a little costly, but it will be worth it for you and any other tenant who lives in your apartment should you decide to move out.

  • Real Estate Agent · Southington, CT · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    @Luis Rodriguez A big part of real estate investing is learning what you are willing and not willing to deal with when it comes to your investments. Sounds like in your house hack situation you have learned that people living above you is not for you. Do not renew their lease and after you turnover the 2nd floor, move up to that unit. 

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    Wait till the 12 year old gets a stereo and gets into heavy metal . 

  • Rental Property Investor · MI · Member since 2019 · 192 posts · 205 votes
    6y

    @Eric Mayer

    Wouldn’t he be violating Fair Housing Laws if he denies potential tenants with kids? I’m so hard on myself when screening and accepting applications because I want to make sure I don’t break fair housing rules. Can he do that? Thanks

  • Queens, NY · Member since 2016 · 58 posts · 7 votes
    6y

    Fortunately for us, we're going to buy a single family home this year. The plan was never to stay here. Is sound proofing even possible with them in the unit ? I can see this issue coming up with a future tenant.

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    @Luis Rodriguez  You can do soundproofing by adding insulation in the ceiling  between the first and second floor.  You could also buy them some carpet runners for the hallway upstairs to dampen the sound.

    As for not renting to people with kids, yes it would be a violation of their rights; but all you have to do is find the best tenant for your apartment.

  • China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @E.S. Burrell @Eric Mayer YES.  Refusing to rent to a tenant because they have kids is ABSOLUTELY a violation of Fair Housing laws.  https://www.hud.gov/program_of...

    I know that at least in the two states where I'm licensed (Mass and Maine), the state hires "testers".  These are people who are paid to pretend that they want to buy or rent a home.  They actually try to trick Realtors and landlords into saying or doing something that's discriminatory and then they drop the hammer on them.

    In Mass, the courts (Havens v. Coleman) have ruled that "entrapment" isn't an acceptable defense.

    There's an exception to the "kids" rule in Mass.  It's for owner-occupied 2 and 3-plexes only, where the owner is over 65+ years old or infirm and can show that having young kids in the other unit would be a hardship. It's possible that your state has one too, but "familial status" is a protected class at the federal level, so I'm not sure how that would help.

    The bottom line is that prohibiting tenants with kids from renting is likely to get you into a world of hurt.

  • Rental Property Investor · ME · Member since 2018 · 179 posts · 59 votes
    6y

    Simple.

    Give the gift of thick old throw rug . Cut reverberation of vibrations hitting hard wood floors. it would protect them. And write up list of house rules for everyone including yourself and all tenants place on common entry walls then follow up with email stating in 45 days all new house rules will be enforced. 

  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    You can require a certain percentage of the floor be covered with area rugs in the future. I would also informally give some feedback on basketball playing in the house.

  • Haubstadt, IN · Member since 2017 · 17 posts · 15 votes
    6y

    @E.S. Burrell

    He can't deny based on kids but he can find another reason.

  • Haubstadt, IN · Member since 2017 · 17 posts · 15 votes
    6y

    @E.S. Burrell

    Also, in my county you don't have to follow fair housing guidelines if your a private landlord with less than 3 units and you don't use a realtor.

  • Haubstadt, IN · Member since 2017 · 17 posts · 15 votes
    6y

    @Theresa Harris

    My county doesn't require private landlords with 3 or less units to follow fair housing guidelines.

  • Contractor · Oxford, MA · Member since 2018 · 807 posts · 745 votes
    6y

    Carpet the entire place, for the couple grand it will be worth your sanity. Make sure their security deposit is large enough to cover the inevitable damages 

  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y

    @Luis Rodriguez when I lived in apartments, I only lived in the top floor for this exact reason! Not only is this completely expected, but it is also reasonable. You can ask them nicely to be more careful of noise, but they are not doing anything wrong.

    One of my best tenants moved out of his last townhouse after 10 years because a family moved in next door and the kids made too much noise. This just comes with the territory in multi family.

    Carpet in the floors with a good pad would help considerably. Maybe you could insulate the floor joists, but that would be more invasive and costly.

  • Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Charlie MacPherson:

    @E.S. Burrell @Eric Mayer YES.  Refusing to rent to a tenant because they have kids is ABSOLUTELY a violation of Fair Housing laws.  https://www.hud.gov/program_of...

    I know that at least in the two states where I'm licensed (Mass and Maine), the state hires "testers".  These are people who are paid to pretend that they want to buy or rent a home.  They actually try to trick Realtors and landlords into saying or doing something that's discriminatory and then they drop the hammer on them.

    In Mass, the courts (Havens v. Coleman) have ruled that "entrapment" isn't an acceptable defense.

    There's an exception to the "kids" rule in Mass.  It's for owner-occupied 2 and 3-plexes only, where the owner is over 65+ years old or infirm and can show that having young kids in the other unit would be a hardship. It's possible that your state has one too, but "familial status" is a protected class at the federal level, so I'm not sure how that would help.

    The bottom line is that prohibiting tenants with kids from renting is likely to get you into a world of hurt.

    Multifamily housing of two to four units, where one of the units is owner-occupied, is exempt from the federal Fair Housing Act.  Since the OP lives in this 2-unit property, he’d be exempt.

  • China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Kyle J. Yes, NY Fair housing does exempt owner-occupied 2-3 plexes. https://ag.ny.gov/civil-rights...

    However, familial status is a protected class at the federal level.  I'm not an attorney, but in my experience, state laws can be more restrictive than federal laws, but not less.

    I reserve the right to be wrong, but if the anyone is thinking about not renting to a federally protected class, I'd talk to a fair housing attorney to be sure.  

  • Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Charlie MacPherson:

    @Kyle J. Yes, NY Fair housing does exempt owner-occupied 2-3 plexes. https://ag.ny.gov/civil-rights...

    However, familial status is a protected class at the federal level.  I'm not an attorney, but in my experience, state laws can be more restrictive than federal laws, but not less.

    I reserve the right to be wrong, but if the anyone is thinking about not renting to a federally protected class, I'd talk to a fair housing attorney to be sure.  

    Like I said, it IS exempt at the FEDERAL level for multifamily housing of two to four units where one of the units is owner-occupied (which is what the OP has):

    https://fairhousing.foxrothschild.com/2011/01/articles/fha-basics/exemptions-to-the-fair-housing-act-not-many-but-here-are-some/

  • China, ME · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    6y

    @Kyle J. Like I said, I reserve the right to be wrong! 

    So that means an owner-occupied MFR is allowed to discriminate against any protected class. Knowing how seriously attorneys general take fair housing, that's a big surprise. Good job with a reliable source!

  • Rental Property Investor · Clearwater & Daytona Beach, FL · Member since 2019 · 194 posts · 197 votes
    6y

    @Charlie MacPherson As @Kyle J. said, it is a bit different when you are offering housing in your own 2-4 unit primary residence. However, I wouldn’t actually mention it to the potential tenants. Just pick the tenants that you like and tell everyone else it’s been filled.

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2009 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    I find that buildings that were constructed with a wooden joist flooring system are simply loud.  When remodeling, I put insulation in the ceiling, and it muffled the sound a lot.  That kid is basically acting like a normal kid.  

    I've lost tenants because of other tenant's noise.  It is part of the landlord experience.  

  • Member since 2019 · 1 post · 0 votes
    6y

    @Luis Rodriguez add Carpet , so it won't be loud anymore. And the kid can't bounce balls anymore

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