To renew or not to renew

To renew or not to renew

Yorktown, VA · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 1 vote

Long post warning....New landlord here, my first tenants (mom/daughter) moved in Oct 2018. Daughter is 63 and Mom is 85. Mom had just enough income to qualify for 3x rent and good credit.  Daughter had bad credit and no income.  As a newbie, I was a little unsure if I should go for it.  Mom could tell and offered to pay the full lease worth of rent up front(18 months) and double deposit .  Well that certainly took a lot of risk out of the equation, didn't it.  I consulted with a local experienced landlord I knew and ended signing them up.  Mom passed away after 4 months in.  Okay fine, rent is paid.  Daughter had been a peaceful tenant but isn't good at communicating at all.  Then things here and there would happen.  She didn't tell me when she cut off her phone and the only way to contact her was to go to the house.  Not a big deal.  The ditches and flower beds are never cleared.  Still not a big deal but it is in a really nice neighborhood and it's a condition in the rules to keep them clear.  I learned in January this year that she decided to move her daughter and granddaughter in.  No call or notification and no asking if she could.  It was a breach of the lease agreement.  They are not disruptive but again noooooo communication.  She only told me about it when I came knocking on the door.  (I already had a heads up from a couple of the neighbors tho)  No permission asked or can we sign her up on the lease.   Then in the county the property is in, the county utility bill for trash and sewer must have the tenant and owners name on it if it is too be paid directly by the tenant.  If the tenant doesn't pay.... Ultimately the county will place a lien on the owners house. The amount is every other month for 101 bucks.  When I would check the status online, this was often late by one or two cycles.  Keep in mind her rent is already paid, she hasn't had to pay anything from the start, her mom prepaid.

Feb 22nd, I sent them a notice asking their intent to renew or vacate, however there are conditions if they were to renew.  I was willing to overlook moving her daughter in as long as they all get on the lease and can qualify.  They also had to show proof that they made the utility bill current.  I gave them 11 days to address these issues or by March 2nd, 2020(60 days before the end of the lease).  I heard nothing until the evening of March 2nd.  I got a text from a number I didn't have on file, saying that they want to renew.  I still had no proof to qualifying income and no proof the utility bill had been paid.  I decide to be helpful and drop off a couple applications with minimum requirements on March 5th.  I hear nothing and finally decide on the 13th to list it and put a sign on the yard.  Same day, I also

 gave them a notice telling them that since we haven't heard from them and have not received any documents to mitigate the issues, that we can only assume they will not be renewing and we are sorry to see them go.  As I handed her this notice, she tells me of all the happenings, problems with social security, death in the family....

Now I'm really wondering if I was fair enough and should I lighten up on the qualification standards.   March 16th, I call to leave a message to learn what her real financial situation is and to see if we could work with that.  Come to find out, not only is she and her daughter shy of the 3x rent, they don't even have 2x the rent. So then I looked at, should I drop the rent.  Even if I went down to the mortgage payment for their rent, they were just at 2x rent.  She mentioned her daughter is in food stamps and she has an appointment with social security in May.  Lease is up April 30th.   So even with those considerations, we decided to not renew.

Now I understand she is older and has health issues and amidst all that is going on with COVID19, caution should be taken.  I told her, I would not do an open house, I restricted showing the property to 2 hours on Saturday and 2 hours on Sunday with one appt at a time and no children to walk thru the property. I mentioned, I will have sanitizer and cleaners for all as well as discuss no touching anything and covering coughs to interested parties.  All of this to reduce exposure and will sanitize all for knobs I touch after they leave.  She was adamant about not showing the property for another week (I've already waited 11+16 days to give them a chance to stay.) She also is demanding everyone to wear masks and gloves!  I get it, but NO ONE is going to find a mask anywhere right now!

Was I too harsh in not renewing?  Am I being inconsiderate in showing the property with all the virus stuff going on even with all of the restrictions I'm already putting in place?  I feel like I've really tried considering everything to help her stay.  I'm willing to fully refund their double deposit if they leave with out damaging anything...even though she moved in 2 additional people.  

0Reply
23 views

Most Popular Reply

Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y
You aren't making business decisions. You know, even subconcisously, that this tenant is not a good tenant and allowing her to stay is not good for your business. We all want to be nice and do good, but you need to put your landlord hat on and give this tenant formal notice of non-renewal.
See this reply in the discussion

8 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Real Estate Broker · 3412 S. Harlem Avenue Riverside, IL 60546 · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    6y

    @Tosha Revere this is a tough situation for sure because of the Covid stuff going on. You have a bum tenant here, and the only solution is to get the tenant out as quickly as possible. You will probably be delayed because of the pandemic, but continue working to remove the tenant. This tenant does not handle business well and things will not improve. It sounds like the mother was, unfortunately, enabling the family and the rest of the family can't keep things together. It is sad, but land lording is a business and you have to protect your investment. 

  • Realtor · Boston, MA · Member since 2014 · 159 posts · 75 votes
    6y

    Hello @Tosha Revere, I believe that you were justified in not renewing.  I understand the need for not trying to put someone out on the street, especially at this crazy time and in some states, it is not even allowed at this point but at the end of the day it is business, not personal.  As for showing the property, I think that is something that you should not show until the existing tenants are gone just to be safe and cover yourself.  You will pose an even greater risk if by chance one of those tenants gets sick from having people in and out of the unit.

  • Investor · Midwest · Member since 2019 · 333 posts · 225 votes
    6y

    @Tosha Revere I would take every precaution I could with the showing, even if it meant waiting until she vacated to show it. Good call taking the pre-payment.

    I wouldn't lower the rent and I wouldn't renew the lease. If you lower the rent to cover the mortgage and you have a maintenance issue now you're at a loss, and those losses will pile up with each maintenance call.

    I would refund the deposit if and only if all of the conditions of the lease were followed. What does the lease say about who can live in the property? If it doesn't say specifically the process / procedure or who is allowed then refund the deposit if all other conditions are / were met.  Then update your lease /add the clause about who can live there and your process for adding people etc. for the next tenant.

    Not sure what your City / County is doing about evictions but as soon as I could I'd file an eviction if she doesn't vacate by the end of the lease term. 

    I understand hard times and I'm always willing to work with our tenants when they communicate, but I can't help someone if I have to chase you down for the information.

    Post your notices on the door and then follow-up with the action that the notice says you're going to take. Again, follow city / county laws but in my area we just have to post the notice.

  • Boston, MA · Member since 2019 · 75 posts · 9 votes
    6y

    Couldn’t of said it better^

  • Nathan GesnerBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Cody, WY · Member since 2010 · 28k+ posts · 41k+ votes
    6y

    @Tosha Revere you're making the common mistake of thinking her feelings are more important than yours. There's nothing wrong with treating people with compassion but that doesn't mean you turn into a doormat.

    The house is not well cared for. She's not a good communicator. She violated your lease by moving unauthorized renters in. Despite the extra adults in the home, she still struggles to pay her obligations.

    You know she's not a good tenant. You know you should NOT renew her lease.

    Give her written notice that she's on a month-to-month lease and that you will require her to leave as soon as the COVID-19 issue clears up. As soon as the COVID-19 restrictions are removed, give her a written 30-day notice and then enforce it. Get her out and get a good tenant.

    The DIY Landlord Book4.7248 Reviews
  • Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    You aren't making business decisions. You know, even subconcisously, that this tenant is not a good tenant and allowing her to stay is not good for your business. We all want to be nice and do good, but you need to put your landlord hat on and give this tenant formal notice of non-renewal.
  • Yorktown, VA · Member since 2016 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    All, 

    Thank you so much for taking the time to read the post and respond.  I've certainly lost sleep trying to make sure I'm do the right thing here given the covid stuff.   I'm not a softy but just doesn't want to be that jerk landlord either.  I've only cared to run this as a business and stick to processes as I plan to have more than this one property.  I feel much better having confirmation to not renew and it was helpful to hear your perspectives on showing the property.  My husband managed to find some masks and gloves.  I am cancelling all showings but I am going to go over there once to video and create a virtual tour as well as create a plan view type layout of the house to give folks a better idea of what it looks like in addition to the images already on Zillow of the empty house.

    Form of nonrenewal was officially handed to her when I put the sign in the yard a week ago.  I spoke to her today and it sounds like they are already putting stuff in storage (great sign).  

    I still have folks interested even though they can't walk thru it.

  • Investor · Fort Lauderdale, FL · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 465 votes
    6y

    absent the COVID-19 crisis, I would not renew.

    with the COVID-19 looming over us, I think what I might do is:

    communicate my intention to not renew, as they do not qualify.  But due to the health crisis, I will let it default to M2M until the crisis is over, and crisis is over when the eviction suspension is lifted.

    during the M2M extension period they still have to pay rent, and if rent is short you will start applying the double deposit to the rent until the deposit is depleted.

    Hopefully by then the situation is better where they can move out and part way amicably.

    I don't think I would do showings at this time, and this is a most likely a moot point as more and more states are heading to close all non-essential businesses.

Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.