Renting to a Mexican citizen living in the US

Account Closed · 2013-01-25T14:52:33-08:00

I have a very nice couple with three well behaved kids that wants to rent one of my homes. The problem for me is trying to verify if they are good tenants or not. I asked for the standard copies of each of the couples drivers license and SS card. He provided a Mexico drivers license and ID card but nothing from the US, she had no ID at all. He has been working as a foreman for his brother in law for over two years and he used to own a home here, they have been here over ten years. Neither of the couple speaks real good English but the wife can communicate with me if I use common words and I don't go too fast. They gave me a recent credit report in the husbands name but there was no SS number shown on it, I have a company do a full background check on my prospective tenants and they need the SS number and license for that. I am a hard facts kind of guy, trust but verify. If I rented by the seat of my pants they would be in already. They have a newer car that is in great condition and it's clean, I also went to their little home and although it was very basic it was clean and smelled clean. Who here has experience renting in this situation and can give me some tips that may help out others on this board.

Mark H.

SFR Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 484 posts · 181 votes

13y

Its very common in my area of the country. You, as a landlord arent required to verify citizenship, however you also won't likely have any recourse if they trash your house and run. If they're working "off the books", a judgement would be worthless.

A credit report supplied by a tenant has no value.

You have a solid reason to reject the application based on a lack of verifiable credit and employment history, and if you accept this tenant and reject others because of credit or employment, one could argue that you were discriminating against that future tenant. (Reverse discrimination).

You basically have no idea who these people are if they don't supply a soc. They could be felons or sex offenders on the run, you have no way to know.

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Steve Babiak

Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes

13y

Actually, they don't need to have SSN to be looked up in the criminal records, just the name suffices. The rest of Mark's post is worth considering. See this link:
http://www.nolo.com/legal-encyclopedia/free-books/renters-rights-book/chapter1-2.html

And there are some small municipalities that are starting to impose regulations on landlords regarding illegal aliens:
http://campbelllawobserver.com/2012/08/rent-to-illegal-aliens-landlord-you-may-be-penalized/

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Sorab G.

Investor · Walnut Creek, CA · Member since 2013 · 38 posts · 12 votes

13y

I rent to low the low income Mexican community, while it opens you up to higher risk for the issues mentioned below, some of the best tenants i've had are hard working families who don't have a DL or SS#. To supplement some of the risk, i explain the lease in detail and make sure they understand, if not, make sure someone is there to explain in to them as an interpreter, make sure you have a lease in spanish. Also, i take a slightly higher refundable deposit.

1 Reply

Shanequa J.

Realtor · Houston, TX · Member since 2011 · 916 posts · 296 votes

13y

No, if you can't verify everything then pass on them. You have set rules for your business for a reason. I require a SSN and ID from the USA. If they don't have it, there's a reason why they don't.

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Account Closed

OP

SFR Investor · Member since 2011 · 198 posts · 61 votes

13y

Thanks for the replies.

They did give me a SS number but no copy of the card as requested. I guess I can just try to run his check with the Mexico drivers licence and the SS provided and see what happens.

I asked a friend that rents to Mexican nationals and what he told me is he has not had any problems with them because they do not want trouble with the law and risk deportation.

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Deborah Mettler

Real Estate Investor · St. Petersburg, FL · Member since 2010 · 63 posts · 40 votes

13y

We no longer consider any applications from hispanics that do not have a legitimate green card. No exceptions to this.

In my state of SC, the landlord can be fined heavily for doing so.

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Marcin G.

Chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 93 posts · 12 votes

13y

I deal with that all the time. what I check if a person has an "undocumented status" and/or "undocumented" income/work is the following:
1. current place where they live and reason for moving - this gives me an idea how my place will look like when they move out
2. 2 or 3X security deposit.
3. verification of income (if they have bank account). many of them have TIN number that allows them to open bank account. other's have some sort of bank in their ethnic credit union...
4. FBI fingerprint check. its a paper based application that costs $18. taking fingerprints cost another $22. 3-4 weeks later I know if they were ever arrested etc. kinda long but if they like the place they will wait.
5. License plates check

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Rich Weese

Real Estate Investor · the villages, FL · Member since 2008 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes

13y

I would have to disagree with the previous poster from Carolina. I have been renting to Hispanics for 40 years, and I don't know how many have been legal or illegal immigrants, and I don't care! It is not my job to guard the border and obviously not the job of the United States government either! All I know is they have been great tenants and I charge adequate rent and security deposit. In many price ranges, I actually prefer Hispanics over Anglo Saxons. They seem to take better care of the facilities they have. Rich

10 Reply

Rob K.

Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

13y

Originally posted by Deborah Mettler:

We no longer consider any applications from hispanics that do not have a legitimate green card. No exceptions to this.

In my state of SC, the landlord can be fined heavily for doing so.

Are they able to get a driver's license without a green card? If so, shouldn't the state stop this practice? It seems ridiculous to me that the landlord would be punished for renting to illegals if the state gives them a drivers license.

If they don't issue a driver's license without a green card, wouldn't possesion of a driver's license prove that they're legal and you wouldn't need to check for a green card?

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Kyle J.

Rental Property Investor · Northern, CA · Member since 2012 · 5k+ posts · 5k+ votes

13y

Originally posted by Marcin G:

I deal with that all the time. what I check if a person has an "undocumented status" and/or "undocumented" income/work is the following:
1. current place where they live and reason for moving - this gives me an idea how my place will look like when they move out
2. 2 or 3X security deposit.
3. verification of income (if they have bank account). many of them have TIN number that allows them to open bank account. other's have some sort of bank in their ethnic credit union...
4. FBI fingerprint check. its a paper based application that costs $18. taking fingerprints cost another $22. 3-4 weeks later I know if they were ever arrested etc. kinda long but if they like the place they will wait.
5. License plates check

With regard to the extra security deposit, just be aware that some states have a maximum amount you can legally charge. I know yours (Illinois) doesn't, but mine (California) does. Just something to think about as this may not be legal everywhere.

Also, about the fingerprint cards, do you actually have applicants that do this? There is no way in the world I would wait 3-4 weeks to get back the results I needed to make a rental decision. I wouldn't wait 3-4 days. I make all my rental decisions the same day I receive the application and, on average, have a new tenant and signed rental agreement within two days of a property being advertised.

And how do you run a license plate check?

0 Reply

Mark H.

SFR Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 484 posts · 181 votes

13y

Originally posted by Rob K:

Originally posted by Deborah Mettler:

We no longer consider any applications from hispanics that do not have a legitimate green card. No exceptions to this.

In my state of SC, the landlord can be fined heavily for doing so.

Are they able to get a driver's license without a green card? If so, shouldn't the state stop this practice? It seems ridiculous to me that the landlord would be punished for renting to illegals if the state gives them a drivers license.

If they don't issue a driver's license without a green card, wouldn't possesion of a driver's license prove that they're legal and you wouldn't need to check for a green card?

Last I knew, Michigan was one of the states that would give a drivers license without proof of legal status.

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Marcin G.

Chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 93 posts · 12 votes

13y

Also, about the fingerprint cards, do you actually have applicants that do this? There is no way in the world I would wait 3-4 weeks to get back the results I needed to make a rental decision. I wouldn't wait 3-4 days. I make all my rental decisions the same day I receive the application and, on average, have a new tenant and signed rental agreement within two days of a property being advertised.

And how do you run a license plate check?

this is an extreme situation. yes I dont want to wait 3-4 weeks for FBI to return the report. but I sometimes have vacancies in winter ....
I hold to the deposit and keep looking for another tenant. If I find qualified prospect that I return the deposit if not .. I proceed with the "illigal". I make the rules very clear and they are ok with it. they do know that due to their being illigally here ...they need to follow extra rules ..tough luck.
regarding license plates check - I rented to a cop some time ago ...

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Rob K.

Investor · Southeast, MI · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes

13y

Originally posted by Mark H.:

Last I knew, Michigan was one of the states that would give a drivers license without proof of legal status.

That's not true. Maybe it was in the past.

I wasn't making a comment about states giving or not giving licenses to illegals. I think it's odd that the state would fine a landlord for renting to an illegal. It shouldn't be the landlord's job to be a border patrol agent.

It seems to me that the state would deny a drivers license to an illegal alien and then the landlord would have an easy time of rejecting an illegal alien if they don't have I.D. The way that the poster makes it sound, is that landlords in that state need to screen people who "look foreign". Doesn't sound like it should be the landlord's job to do so.

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Marcin G.

Chicago, IL · Member since 2012 · 93 posts · 12 votes

13y

Last I knew, Michigan was one of the states that would give a drivers license without proof of legal status.

nope. otherwise half of nortwest chicago would suddenly have MI DL. I think the only one left is NM. you can get DL just proving u r resident.

http://www.mvd.newmexico.gov/SiteCollectionDocuments/assets/Acceptable%20Documents%20Chart%207Mar12.pdf

0 Reply

Randy F.

Contractor · Anchorage, AK · Member since 2012 · 351 posts · 196 votes

13y

Originally posted by Rich Weese:

I would have to disagree with the previous poster from Carolina. I have been renting to Hispanics for 40 years, and I don't know how many have been legal or illegal immigrants, and I don't care! It is not my job to guard the border and obviously not the job of the United States government either! All I know is they have been great tenants and I charge adequate rent and security deposit. In many price ranges, I actually prefer Hispanics over Anglo Saxons. They seem to take better care of the facilities they have. Rich

At the risk of coming off as confrontational...

You dont care? As long as you get your rent all is well in the world, right? If you dont know if they are legal or not, I dont suppose you know if they are adding to my health care costs by utilizing a system meant to care for legal residents.

Here in the USA theres this little thing called the "rule of law", which actually means something to most of us. The fact that political ideology and pandering to a voter block trumps principle in Washington DC, doesnt mean the rest of us have to sell out to either complacency or greed and aid and abet criminals. Thats what illegals are and that is what you are doing by renting to them.

@Tim W ... NO, it is not racial profiling to recognize that they are Mexican nationals without the documents needed to check the same info you check on anyone else. If they cannot provide what your business requires, they are also not able to prove legal status. Do the right thing! Why reward criminals while others wait in line for years to come to this country legally.

2 Reply

James H.

Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 450 votes

13y

In the case of undocumented immigrants I rely heavily on job checks and previous residence checks - both for the man and the woman (if the woman is working). Since the guy is working for his brother, it makes it more difficult to get an unbiased verification. I would also see if his brother had references and check that out. If his brother's company has a good reputation, it would mean something to me. It is still a risk,

I do believe that a higher percentage of low income undocumented immigrants are good tenants than low income citizens. This is based on personal experience (a drop of water in an ocean - means little) and a perception that the reasons for low income are different between the statuses of undocumented immigrants and citizens. That is by no means to say all undocumented immigrants are quality people. They come in all shapes and sizes, too.

2 Reply

James H.

Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 450 votes

13y

Originally posted by Randy F.:

The fact that political ideology and pandering to a voter block trumps principle in Washington DC, doesnt mean the rest of us have to sell out to either complacency or greed and aid and abet criminals. Thats what illegals are and that is what you are doing by renting to them.

Being more a capitalist than a nationalist, yes, I will rent to anyone who will pay the bills and take care of my property. That is all that matters to me. The reason why I do criminal background checks or credit checks is strictly to reduce my risk and nothing to do with idealogy - one way or the other. That is the way I would expect any red blooded American business man to act.

1 Reply

Mark H.

SFR Investor · Phoenix, AZ · Member since 2009 · 484 posts · 181 votes

13y

Originally posted by Brian Hoyt:

Originally posted by Randy F.:

The fact that political ideology and pandering to a voter block trumps principle in Washington DC, doesnt mean the rest of us have to sell out to either complacency or greed and aid and abet criminals. Thats what illegals are and that is what you are doing by renting to them.

Being more a capitalist than a nationalist, yes, I will rent to anyone who will pay the bills and take care of my property. That is all that matters to me. The reason why I do criminal background checks or credit checks is strictly to reduce my risk and nothing to do with idealogy - one way or the other. That is the way I would expect any red blooded American business man to act.

If you're checking for a criminal background, doesn't criminal behavior mean something to you? Crossing the border illegally, I'll give you that as a freebie, but would you knowingly rent to a white guy who gave the feds the finger on april 15th?

If you know they're willing to pick and choose which laws they're going to obey, before they even move in, can you actually expect to use the US court system to bounce them out when they ignore the terms of your lease?

Capitalism is fine and dandy, but you can't take the "as long as the money is green" approach and then expect to use the legal system to help you in your dealings with criminals. Freedom isnt free and all..

1 Reply

James H.

Investor · Fort Worth, TX · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 450 votes

13y

Mark H.,

Are you trying to convince me or brow beat me? To be clear; I absolutely do not care if someone crossed the border illegally. I would do the exact same thing if I was a poor Mexican. If a poor Mexican (central or south American for that matter) had the opportunity to get across the border into the US, illegally or not, they'd be a fool not to try.

I don't really care what your opinion is. This is a real estate business forum and I am sharing what works for me. And yes, I sleep extremely well at night. Voluntary illegal border crossing is not a moral issue. It's an ideological issue. You might have a big problem with that. But I don't care. I am making easy money from my rental. Are you?

And FWIW, the OP didn't ask your opinion either. OP wants to know how to verify an applicant, not what Mark's opinion was about immigration.

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Bienes Raices

Orlando, FL · Member since 2009 · 2k+ posts · 282 votes

13y

Why not leave the "Mexican" aspect out of the equation and make it simple? No credit history, no verifiable rental/employment, don't rent to them.

If that fits the majority of your applicants, then you have to lower your standards.

4 Reply

Account Closed

OP

SFR Investor · Member since 2011 · 198 posts · 61 votes

13y

Thanks for all the replies.

I knew this was a hot topic and that is why I posted it because the US has such a large influx of legal and illegal Mexican immigrants. This is my first time dealing with this in over two years of doing business in an area populated by 50% or more Hispanic people.

The interested tenants gave me a deposit to hold until everything cleared, the husband gave me his SS card and I ran the background check. It recommended they pay an additional 1/2 months rent towards the deposit. He did not have a California drivers license but provided his Mexico license. ( I do not know why they have been here ten years )

I am pretty opposed to renting to someone who does not pay taxes because that means I and everyone else is paying for that freeloader raising our own taxes. That's all I'm going to say on that as its a debate all in its own.

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Johann Jells

Rental Property Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 876 votes

12y

This was the closest thread I could find to my issue. I have a married couple applying, she a citizen, he just immigrated from the UK. Do I assume there's no point at all in credit checking him? She makes exactly 3x the asking rent, though seeing the showing was popular they offered $120 more. He is a freelancer, and obviously had to guess what he would make, but I find his estimate of $20k in NYC reasonable and conservative. Any thoughts on what I should do beside just run her credit and pay close attention to my nose? I did like them both.

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Steve Babiak

Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes

12y

@Johann Jells - you should get the foreign born person's residency card (AKA green card) and SSN to confirm legal status. There are free websites where you can verify that the SSN is legitimate and not made up; to verify the SSN was issued to a specific person requires a payment be made so might as well run the credit report if you are looking for that.

If you are able to establish that the foreign born person has never previously resided in the USA, then the credit report will show you very little so you would be correct in skipping running credit on that person; and criminal checks would probably also be fruitless. Last time I had foreign born that was brand new to living in the USA, income was about 6x rent so that to me seemed like a compensating factor for not having residency history here; verifying that SSN was legit and that employer paid what was on the application was the extent of screening in that placement; since winter was coming, looser criteria were justifiable.

I would definitely want proof of the marriage though; you might have a case where the marriage is just to give the foreign born person legal entry and once here in the USA they split up and guess who might be living in your unit all alone now ...

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Daren H.

Real Estate Investor · Desoto, TX · Member since 2013 · 560 posts · 528 votes

12y

Having a SS# or DL# doesn't guarantee you all the facts that will prevent you from leasing to a bad tenant. The prisons are full of people who were born with SS#s and obtained DL#s and were all good until they did something to land them in prison. I would be more concerned about the legality of who I am renting to (just my two cents..).

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Johann Jells

Rental Property Investor · Jersey City, NJ · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 876 votes

12y

As he is here just days, he does not yet have a SSN. But, as I edited above, her fico is 799, a model financial citizen. I suppose you can never be sure but they passed my "smell test". I'll have them come by for a final interview with my wife, the social worker. She listens to BS stories all day long, and is pretty hard to fool. Except when she puts her bleeding heart hat on, but that usually involves kids.

Should we feel bad about taking their $120 or just figure we underpriced it, easy to do in our quickly gentrifying area? My wife wants to split it and only take $60 over asking.

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Renting to a Mexican citizen living in the US

Renting to a Mexican citizen living in the US

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