2 family heating updates and uninsulated exposed basement

2 family heating updates and uninsulated exposed basement

Investor · Cape cod MA · Member since 2015 · 62 posts · 9 votes

Hi everyone. Not sure if this is the best forum to post in but ill start here. 

my property is a very old , circa 1900, 2 family in south eatern ct. The foundation is typical field stone basement. It's a concrete slab for most of the basement but there is an appeox 300 sq ft addition where a 1f bedroom is that is built over a crawlspace but also with field stones for the foundation walls .  The bulkhead is wood (odd size) and not air tight. The steps going down are 3 large blocks and the door at the bottom is prob original, wood and has a lot of gaps around it. The bulkhead offers more defense against critters and the elements.  The sill plate is rotted in places. During heavy rains I get water in the basement through one corner primarily. It pools in one area. I have (2) 50 gallon electric hybrid hot water heaters down there. Not much else.

both of the units use electric heat and the heating bills are alot in the winter months. Each room has its own thermostat.  Every tenant has had this issue,more so the first floor unit because they don't get the benefit of rising heat and is larger. I lived in the 2f unit for 5 years and can attest to this. 

im considering putting in a mini split with heat and AC (prob 2 cassettes per unit) to primarily supplement heat in the winter. I know they're electric too but should be more efficient and better at heating the space. 

im thinking I need to address the basement first though since it's completely uninsulated and pretty exposed but before I can do that would need to address the water issue,sill plate and probable repointing and some kind of paint treatment. I wish I could just live the house and put an entire new foundation down but that's not going to happen.  I looked at some DEEP energy conversions and their basement refreshes look ideal but not sure what the cost of that is. 

i did do an energy assessment a while back and in 2014ish blew in over 2' of insulation into the attic space, so that is good there. 

thoughts on where I should start this effort? Other heating systems I should consider? Anyone have experience updating old fieldstone foundation and rotted sill plates?

TIA

i

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Bjorn AhlbladPro Member
Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
6y

@Luca Mastrangelo I have had success fighting water by extending downspouts 4 feet away from the building, installing French drains and a bit of grading. You are getting good advice on insulating above. All the best!

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  • Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Luca Mastrangelo What is preventing you from simply installing subfloor insulation batts with strong ties?

  • Investor · Cape cod MA · Member since 2015 · 62 posts · 9 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Patrick M.:

    @Luca Mastrangelo What is preventing you from simply installing subfloor insulation batts with strong ties?

    Can you link me to more details?  I tried just putting up rolled insulation under the floor from the basement in the past but struggled because of how wide the joist were apart and how much they varied over the length of the run.  Your suggesting to put up insulation and then some type of subfloor material on the ceiling of the basement?

  • Rental Property Investor · Red Bank, NJ · Member since 2017 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    Strong ties will hold R30 batts in place and they come in a variety of sizes. If they don't work you can rig something that will preclude the insulation from sagging falling. Are you saying that the floor joists have a variety of different spaces between them? and if so how much?

  • Bjorn AhlbladPro Member
    Investor · Shelton, WA · Member since 2017 · 6k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    6y

    @Luca Mastrangelo I have had success fighting water by extending downspouts 4 feet away from the building, installing French drains and a bit of grading. You are getting good advice on insulating above. All the best!

  • Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y

    You can have cellulose/fiberglass blown into the joists. They can do that by stapling a mesh that they poke a hole in and pack the insulation under. An advantage of that is the if there are varied joist widths and depths it can fully fill the cavity.

  • Investor · Cape cod MA · Member since 2015 · 62 posts · 9 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Patrick M.:

    Strong ties will hold R30 batts in place and they come in a variety of sizes. If they don't work you can rig something that will preclude the insulation from sagging falling. Are you saying that the floor joists have a variety of different spaces between them? and if so how much?

    Current depth of joists is about 6". Spacing varies from 20" to 10". Lots of  sistering and perpendicular runs too. 

  • Investor · Cape cod MA · Member since 2015 · 62 posts · 9 votes
    6y

    I know my post has a lot going on in it but any thoughts on a different heating system? Any practical experience with mini splits for primary heat? I'm located in zone 6a/6b. Usually a couple really cold months with avg temp around 30f (Jan/Feb). 

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    Look into sealing your rim joists. Go silly with spray foam insulation down there, wherever wood meets stone/masonry along your exterior walls, and especailly on those gaps around both of the doors. Then address the grading around the property to divert water away from where it is getting in.

  • Investor · NJ · Member since 2018 · 869 posts · 921 votes
    6y

    No do not waste the money on a second heating system. Sounds like that's an inefficient band aid to the real problem: air infiltration. All it will do is further increase your heating expenses. 

    Put your money into sealing up the sill plate better. If your sill player is rotted anyways youll need that money to pay a carpenter to replace it before you have worse problems. 

    A little lesson on heating: everything in nature wants equilibrium and is lazy air, water, heat, electricity etc. Hot air is a perfect example of this. When you have a box that has very hot air and very cold air outside the box, the hot air wants to seek that cold to restore some balance between the two. Fortunately hot air is very lazy and often its easy to figure out how to slow it down and persuade it to stay in the box longer. 

    My advice is to insulate that crawl space, fix the sill plates and seal any rim joists up. If you wanted to take it astep further and need new siding; I would put tyvek with foam board insulation outside. As for the stone foundation, as long as it's fairly dry I dont see why you cant just mount ridgid foam board up to that too. 

    Some pictures would help though 

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