Let's be realistic with the BRRRR thing

Let's be realistic with the BRRRR thing

Flipper/Rehabber · Littleton, CO · Member since 2014 · 75 posts · 75 votes

Okay, I'm tired of hearing how easy it is to BRRRR. And the numbers people (eh hem, Brandon) are not realistic IMHO. One example Brandon gives is $200k purchase, $40K fix, $10k soft costs, $350K ARV. First off, finding a 200k purchase that only needs 40k to be worth 350k is not common. I'm not saying they are out there but it is extremely rare to find such a deal. again, IMHO. If you have a wholesale business set up and can get great deals yourself, then this is more likely. Second, 10K is soft costs is just not accurate. Let's look at the numbers here: 5K points, 6k interest, insurance, title insurance, closing costs 5k. So 16k, not 10k. Now refinancing. Anyone who can get 80% on the new value has a great bank and I want their number. More realistically in this day and age is 65%. Now lets look at those numbers in a more realistic light:

$200k purchase, $40k rehab, $16k soft costs, $320k ARV (a 120k spread on a 300k house is great).

65% of 320K is 208K loan.  You are all in at 266k.  You need to come up with 58k.  If you want to do 5 houses in a year, that's 290k you need out of pocket.  And lets not forget seasoning.  Another PITA issue to deal with.  So Brandon, it is not as easy as you make it out to be and unless you are getting absolutely screaming, killer deals, it doesn't work without bringing a good chunk of money to the table.  I have done it and so I am not saying it cant be done and I am not a bitter "I can't do it so you're wrong" person.  It is just very hard and those deals are extremely rare.  Would love to hear others take on this and experiences

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Rental Property Investor · Colorado Springs, CO · Member since 2018 · 682 posts · 729 votes
6y
Originally posted by @Scott Lepore:

Okay, I'm tired of hearing how easy it is to BRRRR. And the numbers people (eh hem, Brandon) are not realistic IMHO. One example Brandon gives is $200k purchase, $40K fix, $10k soft costs, $350K ARV. First off, finding a 200k purchase that only needs 40k to be worth 350k is not common. I'm not saying they are out there but it is extremely rare to find such a deal. again, IMHO. If you have a wholesale business set up and can get great deals yourself, then this is more likely. Second, 10K is soft costs is just not accurate. Let's look at the numbers here: 5K points, 6k interest, insurance, title insurance, closing costs 5k. So 16k, not 10k. Now refinancing. Anyone who can get 80% on the new value has a great bank and I want their number. More realistically in this day and age is 65%. Now lets look at those numbers in a more realistic light:

$200k purchase, $40k rehab, $16k soft costs, $320k ARV (a 120k spread on a 300k house is great).

65% of 320K is 208K loan.  You are all in at 266k.  You need to come up with 58k.  If you want to do 5 houses in a year, that's 290k you need out of pocket.  And lets not forget seasoning.  Another PITA issue to deal with.  So Brandon, it is not as easy as you make it out to be and unless you are getting absolutely screaming, killer deals, it doesn't work without bringing a good chunk of money to the table.  I have done it and so I am not saying it cant be done and I am not a bitter "I can't do it so you're wrong" person.  It is just very hard and those deals are extremely rare.  Would love to hear others take on this and experiences

Conceptually, it's a great idea but you're right that it's very difficult to get all of your money out in practice. Part of the issue may stem from the fact that BP started marketing the idea years ago when the RE market was less hot and it was more viable to get a good enough deal to get all of your money out. I BRRRed a property early this year and ended up leaving a bit of cash in the deal BUT it still worked out much better than if I had just bought a property on market. It's a great concept and I can't really blame them for pushing it as much as they do, it is possible. 

I get your point though, if you listen to too many podcasts or read enough books it's easy to start off thinking you can build a large portfolio without any money (good luck). The reality is, real estate investing is a cash intensive venture and it's best paired with a high paying job or lucrative business. 

Dan 

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  • Investor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2019 · 433 posts · 743 votes
    5y

    Wuddup friends! Just thought I'd revisit this gem of a thread after I just crushed a BRRRR this week. Here's the skinny: bought for 77k on Monday all cash out of my pocket, valuation came back Tuesday at 124k, put an 80% HELOC @ 4.5% interest (which can be locked into a 20 year fixed at any time if I deploy it) on it worth 99.2k. When the HELOC is not in use, I'll cash flow about $900/month.

    So basically overnight I turned my 77k buying power into 99.2k buying power, plus the cash flow. 

    So are BRRRR's still unrealistic?

  • Whitney HuttenPro Member
    Investor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    5y

    Completing a BRRRR is relatively simple, but not easy... so let's not confuse the 2. I've done over 30 SFR / small MF deals and I've gotten all of my money out of 12 of them, pull extra cash out of 2, and had to leave $5-$10K in the rest (but I choose though so there is a bias to that).

      One of my favorite ones was a 2/1 1050 sqft home with a basement in Raytown.  The landlord I bought it from was selling it as a 2/1, but I knew that you could convert it into a 3/1 easily.  I purchased it for $72K, put $8K, and refinanced it at $125K. Successful BRRRRing is about finding deals before other people or in a different way than others then creating value that others don't see. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 221 posts · 188 votes
    5y

    @Scott Lepore This is like a doctor looking to only give a patient 1 type of medication. As RE investors, when the patient comes to see you, we diagnose, then find the best suitable medication for your patient. I hope this helps. Sometimes the BRRRR medication is not suitable..perhaps wholesale or subto or owner financing or flip or lease purchase or note....you get the point

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