Homeowner · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2013 · 25 posts · 1 vote
I've placed ads for a small house for rent. I've had a few people say it was the husband and wife, child and mother in law or a mom with adult children. This is a small house - 3 bedrooms but really small and I do not think it is suitable for 3 adults.
Is it discrimination of any sort if I say no more than 2 adults and 2 children?
Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
13y
No still can't do it... kind of. Homes do have occupancy limits usually 2 per bedroom +1 so for a 3 bed home that would be 7 people total. So the limit is there but you can not modify it and make your own occupancy limit since that indirectly discriminates against families.
You think what you are saying is not based on family status, but according to the federal protected class it is. I understand you're not attempting to discriminate but here is the way it is viewed: "you won't rent to a big family because you don't like that they have too many kids"
Again your options are to go with local occupancy limits, if that is not more than 2 or 3 unrelated people and 2 per bedroom+ 1 that is a total of 7. So you can say no more than 7 people or 2 unrelated people.
P.S. Say it was a 2 bed unit and a family of 4 wanted to move in with 1 boy and 1 girl child, you cannot say no based upon the kids having to share a room, again that is under the familial status umbrella and up to the parents how they will deal with the sleeping arrangements.
Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
13y
No you can not that is under federal protected class for familial status. Your local area may allow for something like no more than 3 unrelated people in a house, then it's not discrimination on familial status but based on occupancy limits. So in short don't do what you said in your original post, it's up to the family to determine if it will fit their needs.
Homeowner · Oklahoma City, OK · Member since 2013 · 25 posts · 1 vote
13y
Thanks Matt -
I don't care if they are related or not. I just think the house is too small for 3 adults. Can I set it for max occupancy of 2 adults and 2 children because I really don't think 3 or 4 adults in that small of an area or 3 or 6 kids would work either. My thoughts are in no way based on the family status - I don't care if it's adult children or friends or sister wives :)
Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
13y
No still can't do it... kind of. Homes do have occupancy limits usually 2 per bedroom +1 so for a 3 bed home that would be 7 people total. So the limit is there but you can not modify it and make your own occupancy limit since that indirectly discriminates against families.
You think what you are saying is not based on family status, but according to the federal protected class it is. I understand you're not attempting to discriminate but here is the way it is viewed: "you won't rent to a big family because you don't like that they have too many kids"
Again your options are to go with local occupancy limits, if that is not more than 2 or 3 unrelated people and 2 per bedroom+ 1 that is a total of 7. So you can say no more than 7 people or 2 unrelated people.
P.S. Say it was a 2 bed unit and a family of 4 wanted to move in with 1 boy and 1 girl child, you cannot say no based upon the kids having to share a room, again that is under the familial status umbrella and up to the parents how they will deal with the sleeping arrangements.
SFR Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2013 · 134 posts · 16 votes
13y
Matt Devincenzo's correct, this is protected. However, you're not out should more people move in after your tenants are placed. So long as your contract contains a provision for it, you're allowed to increase the rent by a set amount if additional people stay longer than (usually) 30 days. This is to offset your increased utility costs.
Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
13y
If you want to decrease occupancy advertise it as a two bedroom with an office or something along those lines. If you do that it will change who comes to look at it. This may have the outcome you are looking for.
Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
13y
You can't put familial status or age restrictions (unless it's a lawful age restricted community) in your advertising, as that's in violation of the fair housing laws. Definitely spend some some time to familiarize yourself with the federal fair housing laws and your local regs as they apply to advertising as well as occupancy. There are people who would be only too happy to report you for advertising violations.
Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
13y
Originally posted by Felicia Woolard:
I've placed ads for a small house for rent. I've had a few people say it was the husband and wife, child and mother in law or a mom with adult children. This is a small house - 3 bedrooms but really small and I do not think it is suitable for 3 adults.
Is it discrimination of any sort if I say no more than 2 adults and 2 children?
I'm curious about your concern about size. If a couple uses one bedroom, the mother in another, and a child in another, how is that different from a couple and two or three children? If you read the square foot allowance in the federal law and your local regs, you'll probably find that your house is twice the minimum space required.
How tenants figure out how to share beds and baths is really their problem. :) If they're crowded, that's on them.
But I would imagine your concern would be noise, parking, and wear on tear on the house the more people you get?
Like others have said, you can't do that, but some places let you limit total house occupancy based on local ordinances. If it's 7, then you could have 1 adult and 6 kids or 3 adults and 3 kids. It's up to them to figure out how to share the space. If the damage the house-- whether it's 1 person there or 7--, you have a security deposit to make the needed repairs due to damage they cause.
I would at least want all persons over 18 screened and on the lease, whether they move in now or later. (Not that the tenant will always tell you if they let a live-in bf/gf move-in, but...)
Real Estate Investor · Lansdowne, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 656 votes
13y
How about just not approving their application and keep it moving. You don't have to give a pamphlet on your reason(s) why they'll not be new tenants of yours... just say no and continue to shop the property.
Commercial Real Estate Agent · Sudbury, MA · Member since 2014 · 118 posts · 25 votes
12y
Are the maximum rules per room federal or state? I've run into similar situations, less concerned about the wear and tear, as to whether the health department has a limit. Say a group of college buddies decided they can bunkbed 4 to a bedroom. Would the board of health be calling me?
Federal law under HUD does not permit different gender children to share a bedroom if older than 6 months old. So a single parent with 2 different gender children is not allowed to live in a 2 bedroom unit.
Also the 2 people per bedroom plus 1 is a "suggestion" under Federal law not a maximum. We've had HUD approve a 10 person family for a 4 bedroom house, obviously more than the suggested limits.
Also under the Federal law there is size requirements, if I recall correctly you need a minimum of 80 square feet for a single occupancy bedroom and 110 square feet for a double occupancy bedroom.
Many municipalities have occupancy limits saying not more than 3 unrelated people can live in an unit/house. They use these laws to limit boarding houses and in some areas to limit group homes, half way houses, and other type of units.
I had a couple ask if they could rent a 3BR, and include two grown daughters, one of whom had 3 children. It sounds like I'd be in violation of some housing rule if I accepted their application.
Investor · McKinney, TX · Member since 2012 · 588 posts · 224 votes
12y
everything I've read says you can limit maximum occupancy but can not limit based on a protected class. For example you can limit occupancy to 5. Based on that, you can accept a single parent and 4 kids but cant decline because you think 4 kis is too many.
Here is some info from texas
Limits on occupants who live on the premises
The landlord can limit the number of occupants who live in the house or apartment. The maximum number should depend on the number of bedrooms and the age of the occupants. Texas law generally gives a landlord the ability to set occupancy to three adults (persons over 18) for each bedroom of the dwelling. Section 92.010, Property Code. The landlord can set lower standards, as long as he does not illegally discriminate. For example, if a couple living in a one bedroom apartment have a baby in the middle of their lease, the landlord probably cannot require the couple to move to a two-bedroom apartment because this may unfairly penalize them merely because they had a child. See Discrimination.
The Utah Fair Housing Act does not limit the maximum number of occupants permitted to occupy a dwelling. When setting an occupancy policy, landlords should define the occupancy limit in terms of the number of occupants. Limitations on the number of children are in violation of the Fair Housing Act. Current federal fair housing regulations presume that an occupancy standard is acceptable if it is no more restrictive than two persons per bedroom. When assessing the “reasonable” standard elements that need to be considered are the size of the room, fire and health codes and any other applicable city regulations. For questions and clarification, contact the Fair Housing Section, Utah Antidiscrimination and Labor Division, Utah Labor Commission.
Flower Mound, TX · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 9 votes
12y
@David Krulac So you're saying that it is against the law if someone has 7 month old twins (one boy, one girl) for them to sleep in cribs in the same room?
Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 136 posts · 32 votes
12y
@David Krulac Federal law under HUD does not permit different gender children to share a bedroom if older than 6 months old. So a single parent with 2 different gender children is not allowed to live in a 2 bedroom unit.
Wait, really? I can't imagine that being a real enforceable law. How on earth could they get away with saying a mother couldn't have two children in the same room, regardless of gender? I mean on what basis could they even say the gender matters? Do you have a source on this?
Investor · Wheaton, IL · Member since 2013 · 77 posts · 17 votes
12y
Even if the children of different gender can't share a room, a child may share a room with a parent. So you could make an argument that a family of four can rent a 2 bed. Dad, and son in one bedroom, two daughters in the 2nd bed.
For what it's worth I couldn't care less who you rent to. I just do not want to be sued, and try to think of all the angles.
Where the Federal rules come into play is for Section 8 housing governed y HUD rules and Fair Housing Authority complaints.
Otherwise the FBI is not coming to your house and counting bodies, unless you're like the house in Houston this week where there were 100 illegal aliens in one 3 bedroom house.
Investor · Whippany, NJ · Member since 2010 · 356 posts · 104 votes
12y
If I don't like the situation or smell something is up I always drag out the application process telling folks I am continuing to accept lots of applications and will make the best decision at some point in the future with no time frame given. I know how many people fit my places without beating them up/overcrowding etc. for what the home is built for. This is not a first come/first serve application process and I take my time to get the best possible tenants no matter what, no matter how long it takes. I would rather leave it empty than rush to fill it. I screen everyone way before I collect an application fee so they don't get mad if they do not get the place.