Brighton, MA · Member since 2018 · 8 posts · 4 votes
Hi all, I'm fairly new to the forum and have never formally introduced myself. I'm Ian and I have spent the last six months or so educating myself on REI and reading through the forums. I have started to form my "team" and I'm ready to take action.
I'm currently living in the Boston suburbs and looking for a 2 or 3 family BRRRR/house hack within the 495 belt, preferably something close to the commuter rail. One area I'm particularly interested in is Salem. It's a lively place with some charm and a good location for me - close to the commuter rail and a good midpoint point between work and family in Maine.
I've heard the drawbacks - traffic, "one way in / one way out", public schools aren't great, Halloween is crazy, etc. I'm wondering if anyone here has lived and/or invested in Salem, and would be willing to share their thoughts on the town and/or the market.
I'm also curious if anyone has invested in a historic home that required reno, either in Salem or elsewhere. Does that significantly complicate renovation work? Any insight on what to expect from that process would be great.
@Ian Maxwell Many years ago, I lived nearby in Lynn and I had in-laws in Salem.
The Salem waterfront has a lot of charm. Good restaurants, active night scene if you're into that sort of thing.
The downside of working with antiques are:
- Complications due to ancient design, construction and materials. Many will be really solid, but I've been in some (and had one as a listing) where the wide pine flooring was so thin that it flexed as you walked across it.
In the one I had listed (built in 1814), I had to convince the seller to empty the china cabinet, because every time we'd walk across the kitchen floor, the plates would all rattle!
Almost always, the depth and pitch of the stairs are so steep that they feel a lot more like a ladder than steps. Families with small kids are very unlikely to buy these homes.
Of course, antiques definitely had knob & tube wiring at some point. It might all be gone - or not. And the plumbing needs a close look as it could be over 100 years old.
Don't forget that there can also be asbestos insulation around pipes and furnaces too. Many, if not most basements will have dirt floors too.
Another "quaint" feature is that homes from the 1600s and 1700s were commonly built right next to sidewalks. There are plenty of those here in Plymouth where you step out the front door directly onto the sidewalk. Not good for the "peace and tranquility" crowd (like me). There is often literally not an inch of buffer, but back 400 years ago, I'll bet that was a "feature".
Antiques also tend to feature cedar posts in the basement. These shrink a tiny few millimeters per decade. But you add up enough decades and your floors are all out of level.
- Marketability. Antiques appeal to a very limited sector of the buying public, making them harder to sell. Decorating the home takes a lot of care if you want to maintain the antique character. Elizabethan decor, which is where many head to, can be hard to distinguish from a funeral parlor. Colonial decor is hard to find. The buyer is doomed to many long walks through flea markets.
- The Hysterical (Historical) Commission. Many of these towns have little old ladies - with clipboards. They have been given power to dictate what you can do when you renovate. From the color of your doors and shutters to siding choices and in some cases, they even have to approve any changes to the layout of your floor plan. They can make the worst HOA look like a bunch of pansies.
I like to visit antiques to see how people lived when the Pilgrims landed here in 1620. It's a nice history lesson and a reminder to be grateful for modern amenities. But there is no way on God's green earth that I'd want to live in one.
I forget which episode, but there was a woman on the podcast a year or so ago that invested in old Salem multi families. You should look it up and give it a listen! It was a great episode.
I forget which episode, but there was a woman on the podcast a year or so ago that invested in old Salem multi families. You should look it up and give it a listen! It was a great episode.
@Ian Maxwell Many years ago, I lived nearby in Lynn and I had in-laws in Salem.
The Salem waterfront has a lot of charm. Good restaurants, active night scene if you're into that sort of thing.
The downside of working with antiques are:
- Complications due to ancient design, construction and materials. Many will be really solid, but I've been in some (and had one as a listing) where the wide pine flooring was so thin that it flexed as you walked across it.
In the one I had listed (built in 1814), I had to convince the seller to empty the china cabinet, because every time we'd walk across the kitchen floor, the plates would all rattle!
Almost always, the depth and pitch of the stairs are so steep that they feel a lot more like a ladder than steps. Families with small kids are very unlikely to buy these homes.
Of course, antiques definitely had knob & tube wiring at some point. It might all be gone - or not. And the plumbing needs a close look as it could be over 100 years old.
Don't forget that there can also be asbestos insulation around pipes and furnaces too. Many, if not most basements will have dirt floors too.
Another "quaint" feature is that homes from the 1600s and 1700s were commonly built right next to sidewalks. There are plenty of those here in Plymouth where you step out the front door directly onto the sidewalk. Not good for the "peace and tranquility" crowd (like me). There is often literally not an inch of buffer, but back 400 years ago, I'll bet that was a "feature".
Antiques also tend to feature cedar posts in the basement. These shrink a tiny few millimeters per decade. But you add up enough decades and your floors are all out of level.
- Marketability. Antiques appeal to a very limited sector of the buying public, making them harder to sell. Decorating the home takes a lot of care if you want to maintain the antique character. Elizabethan decor, which is where many head to, can be hard to distinguish from a funeral parlor. Colonial decor is hard to find. The buyer is doomed to many long walks through flea markets.
- The Hysterical (Historical) Commission. Many of these towns have little old ladies - with clipboards. They have been given power to dictate what you can do when you renovate. From the color of your doors and shutters to siding choices and in some cases, they even have to approve any changes to the layout of your floor plan. They can make the worst HOA look like a bunch of pansies.
I like to visit antiques to see how people lived when the Pilgrims landed here in 1620. It's a nice history lesson and a reminder to be grateful for modern amenities. But there is no way on God's green earth that I'd want to live in one.
@Ian Maxwell My first house-hack/flip was in Salem. I think the area is great for investing. However, Salem is not a secret anymore. The location is great for commuters as it is only 30 minutes on the commuter rail from North Station. There is no denying that the in/out can be tough during rush hour. In regards to the public schools, I could see them turning around given the influx of young professionals settling and buying their first homes there. Although Salem is an old place, not EVERY home there is historical. Not EVERY home was built in the 1600's. Not every house has those issues that were mentioned previously. There are plenty of homes that were built in the early 1900's (like most homes in the immediate suburbs of Boston). If you are looking for a place to get started with a BRRRR/house-hack, I would highly recommend Salem. I would suggest trying to network with a local agent there who could help you find something off-market because the numbers for most of the stuff I have seen on the MLS in the last year don't make much sense. Good luck on your search!
I'm not sure if you're completely fixated on Salem but Beverly is its neighbor which a larger selection of homes, with commuter rails and more access to hw. I find that because that city is divided by areas (Centerville, North Beverly, Downtown, Etc.), it is nicer to navigate and the amenities for a modern life is much more abundant.
While the majority of the home in both communities are single homes I find that Beverly has more updated properties and definitely a larger selection of multis where you can exercise the BRRR strategy.
With that being said, I am not completely dismissing Salem but given that it does have historical restrictions, it might be yet another obstacle you have to face on top of finding the deal, calculating the correct numbers, GCs, tenants, etc.
My son rents in Salem and when looking for a place I can tell you like the boston area market in general it is strong. It seemed a good area with a fair amount of commuters, other students and local workers when we looked for places. The train to North station is about 30 minutes. Yes , it is crazy at Halloween just about the whole month of October but that is just the town. Downtown businesses seemed to be doing well. For his rental the landlord rents a 3 bedroom by the room and it is bringing his landlord about 2100, they pay utilities. It is not great condition although across the street from the college so my son can go with a vehicle. My sons other 2 roommates are working college grads so maybe that gives you a picture of the market.
As for age most of the housing stock is older. For historic homes which I have rentals outside of MA I think one of your biggest considerations should be potential for between unit noise.
@John Menton Incredible insight in that podcast. Thanks for the recommendation.
@Charlie MacPherson Those are great points, and many things I wouldn't have considered. I grew up in a 200 year old farm house, and took more than a few falls down ladder-like staircases as a child, so I relate to your point there. If you were to do a showing or open house at an antique home, what would you look for? What would scare you away?
@Dan Weber Great tips, thanks! I'm working with an agent in the Boston area, but agree that someone with more local knowledge would be more helpful finding a deal that makes sense. Do you still have any connections to realtors in the area that you would recommend? Also, I grew up in Wells and my family still lives there - what a coincidence.
@Lien Vuong I'm not completely resigned to Salem, and am still considering all options. I've never spent much time in Beverly, but sounds like it is worth looking into for all the reasons mentioned. Thanks for the suggestion!
@Colleen F. Good to hear that the rental market in the area is healthy. That's one of the other things about Salem that I liked - there a several sources of potential tenants. Commuters, students, etc.
@Ian Maxwell If I'm bringing a client to see an antique, I'll point out all of the things I mentioned. Actually, I'd do the same for any property, antique or not.
Part of my practice when representing buyers is to try my best to talk them OUT of every property we see. Lots of my clients are first time buyers and are relying on me to have their back - and that's a responsibility I take very seriously.
So I'd call their attention to all of those kinds of things, describe the kinds of problems that can flow from them, strongly suggest a home inspection if they were to move forward. Then it's their decision.
Welcome, Ian! My husband and I were actually wondering the same thing, as Salem is one area we're considering for an upcoming BRRRR as well. Would love to hear what other areas you're also considering, trade ideas.
