Investor · farmingdale NY · Member since 2013 · 37 posts · 5 votes
First time investor here looking to invest in affordable duplex's in Pennsylvania. Does anyone know of any good cities to start out in that's somewhat close to New York City ? I live on Long Island and are looking to get my feet wet this spring. Thanks
Mansfield, TX · Member since 2013 · 9 posts · 19 votes
12y
As a former New Yorker who was a realtor in both NY and PA (Orange Co, NY and NEPA) I learned a lot about North Eastern PA which includes the Pocono Mtns and Scranton-Wilkes Barre area. The Pocono area including Stroudsburg is made up heavily of former and present New Yorkers. The Poconos are are full of private communities some being gated. This is along the I-80 corridor and up around Milford. Along the I-78 corridor is Allentown, Bethlehem and Easton. The best location for market size and rental prospects would be Between Allentown and the north side of I- 276 due to proximity to both Allentown and Philadelphia. For lower purchase price Scranton and Wilkes Barre have the edge. The best resale value in that area would probably be Clarks Summit. The colleges in NEPA are: Stroudsburg U, Kings Coll and Wilkes in Wilkes Barre, Keystone in Dalton (near Clarks Summit) and in Scranton there is Univ of Scranton, Marywood and a branch of Penn State.
In regard to the Poconos there is an abundance of single family opportunities in the private communities but also HOA dues and extra due dilligence to understand each community.
That is a tour of a small piece of PA. I hope it helps.
Property Manager · Lancaster, PA · Member since 2016 · 77 posts · 30 votes
10y
Been mentioned a bunch previously in the thread, but we see good returns across Central PA due to the stability of the area and less overall investment money. If you're looking for a good agent in the area.... Judah Hoover is really great with a good investment background since you dont know the area too well.
Let us know if you need any rent estimates -- happy to provide guidance on what to expect on the rents or you can use a local rent estimate tool we built direct on our website for free.
Scranton, PA · Member since 2016 · 201 posts · 44 votes
10y
My area has a, b and c class properties as do all areas. But I find the C+/B units have the best balance of income and affordability. But I have done many markets nationwide and many levels .
I don't limit my property search to one or two municipalities. I've bought and sold over 900 properties. In one town of 1,300 houses I bought 109 properties from 108 different owners. I look for low crime rates, good schools, high rent to value ratios sometimes as high as the 3% rule. I also look for areas where the tax rates are low to moderate.
My dad has owned approx 29 acres of land in the Poconos for close to 30 years. I don't know exactly where, but I do know that there are wetlands running through it. We have capital to build, but don't know whether to SFH's, small duplex's (for the college crowd) or small strip malls. Or should we selll? Any suggestions?
Lenny, my goal is to build a pocket neighborhood in the next 3 years. Let's do it! (She says, off the cuff, with no research into the market.) But, I'm a mechanical engineer by trade and am not afraid of digging into the details to figure out if it's viable. ;)
The Poconos are hazardous and difficult. Thousands of lots were laid out in the 1960 and there were no perk rules. Wetlands, flood plains, steep slopes, and other issues are all present in the Poconos. Much of the area is unbuildable. Besides all the physical problems you also need to have the property zoning to do a development. There's a lot of work to do!
House Flipper · East Stroudsburg, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 205 votes
9y
Some areas of the Pocono's are more desireable than others for development. Development takes time and money. There is development going on in the area as well as expansion; new hospitals, medical parks, mixed use shopping centers, small residential communities and spot residential homes. Boom and bust has been going on in the Pocono's for a considerable period of time and some individuals are always making it. Good Luck
Property Manager · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 21 posts · 3 votes
9y
I'm checking back on this thread. I'm still interested in selling 30 acres in Coolbaugh municipality of Monroe county, PA (near Green & Sterling Rd.). Can anyone advise on how the market is doing with land for sale? @David Krulac
Property Manager · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 21 posts · 3 votes
9y
@Beka Shea - I just read your replies from 10 months ago! Beka, I appreciate your grit & hope it remains in light of @David Krulac feedback. Let me know & thank you both!
The Poconos are hazardous and difficult. Thousands of lots were laid out in the 1960 and there were no perk rules. Wetlands, flood plains, steep slopes, and other issues are all present in the Poconos. Much of the area is unbuildable. Besides all the physical problems you also need to have the property zoning to do a development. There's a lot of work to do!
David, If you wouldn't mind elaborating, I have some questions: What do you mean by "hazardous"? How can I determine what is legally buildable or "unbuildable"?
The perk test rules were established in 1972. Thousands of lots were developed in the Poconos, many of them were never built on. There are issues with some lots, that they won't pass the perk test and therefore are unbuidable, and unbuidable because means they have little value.
Many lots also have unpaid delinquent taxes, so that's another caution, and some lots have HOA fees which can be hundreds or thousands if unpaid for past years.
Investor · Elverson, PA · Member since 2014 · 80 posts · 53 votes
9y
@Lenny Machin these guys are right. Building lots require a good amount of due diligence, including perc tests, zoning rules, unpaid liens. But these hurdles are doable. The more of them you can figure out before putting it on the market, the higher the value of the lot. You could start by getting a soil scientist out to evaluate the land - he won't know exactly what it'll perc for without doing the test, but he will likely be able to tell you if it's a dead deal right out of the gate. And a title search costs about $150 where I'm at and will discover any unpaid liens/taxes/HOA. Then I'd give the township zoning officer a call and see if they know of any reason why you couldn't build on that land. While I want to build a pocket neighborhood eventually, I have to admit I'm too swamped in my other investing work to even consider that right now. :)
Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y
@Lenny Machin@Beka Shea is right a soil scientist would be helpful and we have employed several over the years. However, there are only a few soil scientist, around 30 in the whole state. They are expensive, we've paid $1,000 to $2,000 a day and the perk and probe is a 2 day affair.
The soil scientist credential is a 4 year college degree taught at Penn State. Several times we hired a professor/soil scientist who taught most of the soil scientist in the state.
The township/SEO (Sewage Enforcement Officer) has historic records and can tell you if a specific lot is:
A. passed septic test
B. failed septic test
C. never tested
I used to be a licensed SEO and took all the state courses to do perk tests, so am very familiar with the process.
In Bigger Pockets Podcast #82 we only slightly touched on land subdivision, development and vacant lots.
Property Manager · Miami, FL · Member since 2013 · 21 posts · 3 votes
9y
It turns out my dad paid for 'testing' in '82 and is now digging around for the paperwork. We should be update on all taxes, but may consider a title search to confirm no checks got lost.
I'll check with SEO to see how much of the 30 acres was even tested (& dbl check against our records). Can either of you recommend a soil scientist? How is quantity of testing determined over 30 acres?
@David Krulac@Beka Shea: I so appreciate your feedback! This is a bit challenging to figure out from Miami, FL.
Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
9y
@Lenny Machin PM me. I can recommend Soil Scientist. If all you want to know is if the taxes are paid, you nay not need a title search. check with the tax collector for the township and check with the County Tax Claim Bureau. If you Dad owned continuously since 1982, there is an exemption for perk testing tract more than 10 acres in the same ownership for that long. Its sort of a grandfathering clause in the law. The old law said that 10 acres didn't need perk testing. When the law was changed they grandfathered in old owners with more than 10 acres. It applies to so few properties today, since old owners have sold or passed away. And it doesn't apply to subdivisions. We've never been able to advantage that law ourselves, too young.
Bronx, NY · Member since 2014 · 117 posts · 33 votes
6y
@david krulac What part of Harrisburg are you obtaining those rents? A quick search on realtor showed me a ton of 400 to 600 per month rentals. Is there that much of a variance in neighborhoods in Harrisburg or am I looking in the wrong part of town?
Mechanicsburg, PA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6y
@Jayson Greenblatt Rent do vary, we are mostly in A & B areas, maybe a few C+, we aren't looking in D or E areas. We have a 1 br renting for $825, 2 br for $1,050, 3 br for $1,450 and a 4 br renting for $1,895 hth
Bronx, NY · Member since 2014 · 117 posts · 33 votes
6y
@david krulac wow that is a wide range. Still more than the ones I found on a quick search. Also, is it common out there to have all utilities be the tenants responsibility? That would be ideal. In NYC usually heat, water and sanitation are the landlords responsibility.
I work near Allentown and there is some good development going on there. The Lehigh Valley Phantoms just opened up a new rink with lots of commercial and residential space in the immediate area. Allentown is still low income and developing slowly but nearby Bethlehem is doing well in recovery from the downturn. With good access to NYC and to Philly I see this area doing very well in the next few years. If you are interested in partnering up for a deal up there let me know! Good luck.
How would you say Allentown is doing now? looking to purchase a long term rental this Spring!