China Built Backyard Homes (SoCal)

China Built Backyard Homes (SoCal)

San Diego , CA · Member since 2018 · 87 posts · 28 votes

Here is a strategy I've been working on. I have a business where I design products and have them mass produced in China. I ordered over $200k in wholesale orders last year, so I am very familiar with the whole China production and import business. I was looking into some business models where I can marry my China import skills with real estate. I came up with buying kit homes produced in China and putting them in people's backyards.

These homes are semi pre built and fold together to fit into a shipping container. They come with plumbing and electrical already built into the home. They can be made with any finishing you'd like and can be designed to meet local standards. There are several sizes, but I would go after a model that is 380 sqft. It includes a full kitchen, full bath, and a small bedroom.

There are new regulations in California that allow tiny homes to be placed in backyards very easily. These homes are called auxillary dwelling units (ADU). You can read more about those rules here. If the unit is under 500 sqft, meeting fire code, and a few other small requirements, it should be very easy to build these homes.

I can produce these homes for $11k each. It costs about $4k to ship them. I figured I would add another $5k in costs to transport the home to the end customer and assemble it onsite. That is a total cost of $20k/home. A home this size in San Diego, CA rents for at least $1,200. I verified people would be willing to live in a space like this by making a Craigslist ad. I got over 100 responses in under 24hrs (see the screenshot) so the demand is real! A unit that rents for that much should be worth about $150k, right? I figured I could charge $40k-$60k to do the whole thing for the end customer. That's a $100k value proposition to the customer. And I would make $20k-$40k on each sale.

I have already talked to several people who are willing to buy my first sample home. I just need to do all the work to get them this home. Right now I need help finding a contractor that could help me oversee this project and a permitting people to help navigate the whole process.

BP forum, please poke holes in my business plan! Or give me some advice on where to go next.

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Investor · Monrovia, CA · Member since 2015 · 48 posts · 33 votes
8y

If you have an issue with a tenant and you are not zoned to have a legal rental,  you will not be able to evict them with the assistance of law enforcement.  This means the only way to get rid of a bad tenant is paying them to leave.  With these types of rentals its best to opt for short term or rent to a friend or family. 

Also, the math is a little funky. Its not really a 100k bump for the customer. You might get $1200 a month in rent(14,400 a year), but you cannot apply a standard GRM or CAP rate at the point of sale. The banks won't underwrite the income or the square footage.

 I'm guessing these will be installed into single family homes. If you were to ask an appraiser, they would value these at a flat rate that mother-in-law/pool house/guest houses would be valued. They would not value it by the amount of income or the added square footage. Last time I checked, the appraised value for one of these in the state of California was $25,000 and thats when the thing is permitted. 

Your value based on a 16x GRM at $1200 a month in California is $230,040.

Your Value based on 380sq ft at $500 a sq ft would be $190,000.

Your value based on a California licensed appraiser would be around $25,000.

So the thru value for a buyer is somewhere between the bank's number and the value of the rental income for the owner.  

Other than that, it looks like you have a nice little niche product. I think for a new investor that is house hacking, or someone who owns a 3/4 unit with the land to install one of these, you have a really interesting product.  

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  • Investor · Oceanside, CA · Member since 2017 · 61 posts · 22 votes
    8y

    Sorry Andrew, but I do not remember the name of the contractor, I just read a few posts or adverts of theirs somewhere recently.

  • Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Andrew Erickson:

    @Justin R., thanks for the feedback! I will have to do more research into prepping the backyard for a unit. That blows my mind that prepping a yard for a ADU would cost over $20k! Yes, these units can only have electrical appliances on 110V. No gas or 220V appliances. I'm sure an electric stove and fridge would need special electrical.

    $100k install cost doesn't sound bad too with everything included. I will have to do more research into the quality issues. 

    One issue you would have with improving your rental properties is the new reg says you have to be owner occupied to get an ADU permitted. 

    Andrew a quick clarification here....there are actually two related and distinct categories of units listed within City of SD; Companion units and Junior units....While the Junior units do require owner occupancy, the Companion units regs do not list that as being required. These units you're describing would be Companion units in that they are detached (Junior units are described as being contiguous with the Primary dwelling). 

    ADU ordinance update 2017 excerpt below.

    Companion code section:

    Before a Building Permit may be issued for a companion unit......that the record owner shall reside in the primary dwelling unit or the companion unit.

    Junior Unit code section:

    "Before a Building Permit may be issued for a junior unit.....and that the record owner shall reside in the primary dwelling unit or the junior unit"

    I work in SD as a land use/planning and site design Civil, so if you have questions about local reg's or municipal codes in the area feel free to reach out. Also your 380 SF vs 500 SF has some other advantages 1) the regs do not require additonal parkign for less than a 500 SF unit 2) the school district does not collect fees on new SF that is less than 500 SF. Both of those would go toward making this a more feasible proposition for existing SFR that you would be looking to add these to.

  • Developer · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Matt Devincenzo My understanding of the difference is Junior Units share amenities with another unit, while Companion Units do not.  Companion Units can be attached or detached.  Been following this and have been doing permitting at the DSD, so I'd love to know if your understanding (or experience) is different.

  • Investor · Clairemont, CA · Member since 2011 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    8y

    @Justin R. yes my understanding is a companion unit may be attached or detached...I was more trying to focus on the fact that if these are companion units (attached or detached) that OO is not a requirement.

    You probably have more practical insight on this as I usually recommend clients don't need my help, and their architect probably is capable for items like this. Sometimes zoning and planning reviewers will "mis-apply" portions of the code, and the architect will ask me to help squash the issue and I'll get involved at that point. 

  • Developer · San Diego, CA · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by :

    Sometimes zoning and planning reviewers will "mis-apply" portions of the code, and the architect will ask me to help squash the issue and I'll get involved at that point. 

    Truer words hath not been spoken.  

    I'm sure you know already, but for those who don't regularly work with the DSD Staff: the reality is it's a super tough job to do, especially when new code keeps getting introduced (dispensaries, SLSD, ADUs, re-zoning, CEQA) ... and you're expected to know everything about everything ... and your customers aren't always knowledgable or patient.  There's definitely been some times when the reviewers have been flat out wrong, and there have been times where ego prevented them from getting it right.  But, the more projects I've done, the more empathy I'm building.

  • Realtor · Camarillo, CA · Member since 2014 · 162 posts · 102 votes
    8y
    It's a great idea but it will not increase the value of the home by as much as you project. People buying a home with an AUD will be comparing to other homes not an investment. I would sell the cash flow.
  • San Diego , CA · Member since 2018 · 87 posts · 28 votes
    8y

    I love this forum! So many great people with lots of experience chiming in. 

    Yes, I am targeting the junior ADU reg. The regs I read said jr ADUs are not required to be attached. They must have an external entrance, a kitchen, no gas, and no 220V hookups. They do not need bathrooms (but the units I'm looking at have bathrooms).

     I also read they need to be owner occupied.  They would great if they didn’t need to be. That means it could be easier to scale up with developers. 

    I didn’t read anything about new construction. I wonder if you can add companion units to new houses. How would you know if it was going to be owner occupied? 

  • San Diego , CA · Member since 2017 · 6 posts · 1 vote
    8y
    Hi Andrew, I’m interested in one of these China Huts, I would like to see one if possible
  • Architect · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 244 posts · 101 votes
    8y

    I've gotten a bunch of questions/inquiries about ADU's in the past year so it wouldn't surprise me if there was a lot of demand. As others have said, staying under 500 SF is going to be advantageous.

  • New to Real Estate · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 101 posts · 78 votes
    8y

    I was initially super excited about the idea. We are currently converting a garage into ADU (also extending the sq footage of the space). Our total project cost with permits and architectural plans is well below the total cost of the unit plus installation you are projecting. Plus the permitted ADU will have a separate address and added square footage on the property. Additionally, our largest expenses thus far were for architectural drawings, permits and fees, foundation, plumbing and electrical hookups, not the structure and fixtures themselves. So for me, this would probably not make sense. Interesting idea though.

  • Aurora, CO · Member since 2016 · 158 posts · 118 votes
    8y

    @Andrew Erickson, I have read (some) of what the ADU and SoCal cities are passing (LA and SD). My understanding is the the cities are allowing ADU to specifically address housing shortages and homelessness.

    With that in mind I would be surprised if the cities do not put some sort of restriction on who can live in the ADUs. Max income, had to have been evicted, someone who is homeless etc. Why does this matter?

    Well first a person who wants to put up an ADU and rent might have to fall under section 8 type restrictions. And knowing that it will probably be more weathly people that have (a) the land in the back yard (b) financial means to put up an ADU you are potentially restricted on who would WANT one in there back yard.

    This is the whole flaw with this (SoCal) idea and not your business plan. The city is giving permission for the people that can afford (with both land and $) to, an opportunity to house homeless people in their back yard. So they are asking Middle to Upper class home owners if they would LITERALLY want someone who is homeless camping in their back yard.

    So unless the ordinance has changed, or I am way off on my guess of the intent of these ordinances or how they are actually written into law. I do not know how many suburban moms are going to let a homeless person camp in the back yard with questionable ability to pay the monthly rent in order for her husband to say he is a real estate investor.

    That being said, if I am wrong and these units can be rented out to anyone, and IF they pass the horrible zoning and code rules of SoCal, then you have an investor in me because I think the theory of what you are thinking of is great.

  • Kevin FoxPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 635 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Michael Randle:

    @Andrew Erickson, I have read (some) of what the ADU and SoCal cities are passing (LA and SD). My understanding is the the cities are allowing ADU to specifically address housing shortages and homelessness.

    With that in mind I would be surprised if the cities do not put some sort of restriction on who can live in the ADUs. Max income, had to have been evicted, someone who is homeless etc. Why does this matter?

    Well first a person who wants to put up an ADU and rent might have to fall under section 8 type restrictions. And knowing that it will probably be more weathly people that have (a) the land in the back yard (b) financial means to put up an ADU you are potentially restricted on who would WANT one in there back yard.

    This is the whole flaw with this (SoCal) idea and not your business plan. The city is giving permission for the people that can afford (with both land and $) to, an opportunity to house homeless people in their back yard. So they are asking Middle to Upper class home owners if they would LITERALLY want someone who is homeless camping in their back yard.

    So unless the ordinance has changed, or I am way off on my guess of the intent of these ordinances or how they are actually written into law. I do not know how many suburban moms are going to let a homeless person camp in the back yard with questionable ability to pay the monthly rent in order for her husband to say he is a real estate investor.

    That being said, if I am wrong and these units can be rented out to anyone, and IF they pass the horrible zoning and code rules of SoCal, then you have an investor in me because I think the theory of what you are thinking of is great.

     I believe your understanding of the new regulations is a bit misguided. 

    The city’s motivation is to increase the overall housing supply. In doing so, theory would suggest that homelessness is likely to decrease due to the added volume on the supply side.  

    In no way, at least from everything that I have heard/seen, does that mean the plan is to restrict owners to homeless/low income tenants.

  • Aurora, CO · Member since 2016 · 158 posts · 118 votes
    8y

    @Kevin Fox, You are probably correct. I do not pay too much attention to CA and it was just a passing article on my news feed that mentioned it. 

    But the skeptic in me says this is almost the first time (that I can recall) a liberal state and cities (LA, SF etc) would revert to a conservative economic approach (supply side economics) to fix a problem vs a rent control or government controlled type solution.

    If this is the case and they really ARE allowing an increase in supply to help drive down over all cost vs attempting to impose government oversight I would sell everything and leave SoCal. Why? Because very obviously the big quack is coming and California is sinking into the Ocean, and Hell quiet literally might have just frozen over.

  • Kevin FoxPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 635 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Michael Randle:

    @Kevin Fox, You are probably correct. I do not pay too much attention to CA and it was just a passing article on my news feed that mentioned it. 

    But the skeptic in me says this is almost the first time (that I can recall) a liberal state and cities (LA, SF etc) would revert to a conservative economic approach (supply side economics) to fix a problem vs a rent control or government controlled type solution.

    If this is the case and they really ARE allowing an increase in supply to help drive down over all cost vs attempting to impose government oversight I would sell everything and leave SoCal. Why? Because very obviously the big quack is coming and California is sinking into the Ocean, and Hell quiet literally might have just frozen over.

    While you may be right about most of CA, San Diego actually has a rather long history of protecting property rights.

    I also think it's a bit of a stretch to consider the fees associated with developing an ADU as a conservative/liberal issue.

    CA already has tools to address the demand side like section 8 vouchers, so the ways to address the housing problem are in no way mutually exclusive.

    The issue in San Diego is undoubtedly an undersupply of housing relative to demand - I think even the most liberal politicians here acknowledge that.

  • Jo-Ann LapinPro Member
    Loan Officer · Tustin, CA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 713 votes
    8y

    i am really  at the tale end of this post. I do have a contractor referral in San Diego that specializes in adu. Feel free to pm me.

  • New to Real Estate · San Diego, CA · Member since 2013 · 101 posts · 78 votes
    8y
    We have an architect who did the permitting of a duplex/ADU for us. I have another I can recommend as well.
  • Wholesaler · San Bernardino, CA · Member since 2015 · 84 posts · 15 votes
    2y

    Did you ever buy the tiny homes? I'm talking to the city as well about these. 

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