Why YOU Might Be the Fool In Avoiding a Hot Market

Why YOU Might Be the Fool In Avoiding a Hot Market

Scott TrenchPro Member
Rental Property Investor · Denver, CO · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 6k+ votes

It seems like every other day someone posts to the forums talking about Denver or surrounding front range cities here in CO and how "Red-Hot" and "crazy" the market is. 

I remember that was said in 2013, when I first thought about investing here. 

They said it in 2014 when I bought my first property.

They said it all throughout 2015 as that property appreciated.

They are saying it today in 2016 as I bought another.

Now, if you listen to all this market chatter, I was a fool in 2013 for thinking about buying into a hot market. I was a fool for buying in that hot market, and I'm a fool for having kept it so long.

The problem is that I made a ton of money on that purchase, and I continue to profit from it with each passing month. I am profiting on my recent purchase as well.

So am I a fool? Perhaps. Perhaps, after I write this, the market will come crashing down, and I will lose everything I've invested. Or, perhaps the market explodes to even greater heights for the next decade, never slowing as Americans uproot and continue moving to my city. I don't know what the future will bring.

But so what if I didn't get great cash flow when I bought? - Rents have gone up, and I've gotten better at managing the properties! So what if I don't have great cash flow on my recent acquisition? It could be that rents go up another 10-15% next year and all the sudden my cash flow is excellent.

The point I'm trying to make here is that no longer is it useful for folks to say things like "The Market is Red-Hot" or "The Market is Crazy here in Denver!" 

Sorry folks - it's been this way for years. The market is normal right now. Appreciation has been steady at 10-12% per year. It's foolish to think the party is over, and it's foolish to bank on it continuing. This seems great for me, because I get to buy foolishly, and it's no different an outcome than if I were smart.

The way I see it, folks considering markets like Denver have two choices - 

One, be a fool and buy into this market, knowing that you can get better immediate cash flow in other cities, and that the only way you come out ahead is if appreciation continues.

Two, be a fool and fail to invest at all or invest in a city that has far lower prospects, but far superior present day cash flow opportunities.

Who is the greater fool? I honestly don't know. Real estate investors love math, don't we? We love models with predictable, consistent, repeatable results. That makes Denver/Boulder/Ft Collins/CO Springs an anomaly. You can't predict what's going to happen next in our market. You can't predict appreciation as reliably as you can predict cash flow.

But I think it's fair to say that dollar for dollar, the folks that invested 5 years ago in Denver are doing a little better than the folks that invested in the midwest, both in equity and present day cash flow (midwest folks - feel free to challenge that point!).

The point is - don't listen to anyone telling you that the market is peaking, and don't listen to anyone that is telling you that it's going to keep going up. And, in my opinion, while it's foolish to depend on appreciation to drive your real estate business forward, it's equally foolish not to hope for appreciation and buy the slightly nicer property in the spot with much better prospects. 

So what should you do in a hot market like this one? Some folks will tell you to time the market. I don't think I'm smart enough to do that. All I can do then is the good old "dollar cost averaging" and buy properties consistently every 12-18 months, and ride the long-term prospects of this city. Perhaps I'll keep winning on purchases over the next few years, and perhaps the market comes crashing down and offering me some new deals. 

We'll just have to wait and see.

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Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y

When people say that the market is hot, they usually say that because a large percentage of the deals they analyze are just plain too expensive for them.

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  • Investor · Dickinson, TX · Member since 2016 · 19 posts · 13 votes
    10y

    Two years ago, I bought a condo in Austin for $124K.  My friends told me that I paid too much, and it was best to wait for the market to cool down.  Guess what?  That condo is now worth $165K.  If I waited, I wouldn't be able to buy the condo since it would be out of my price range.  

  • Investor · Willow Spring, NC · Member since 2009 · 5k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Chris Mason:
    Originally posted by @Chris Martin:

    Markets always go up... except when they don't. People who bought in 2005 and 2006, because it was a hot market, gave it up and let the bank take over in 2009-2012.

    Here's a tip. Only buy things that go up in value. It appears you've seen 0 market cycle changes, so, it appears your view is biased by seeing only one direction. But it also appears you bought right, which is a major feat... one that those investors in 2005 and 2006 failed to do in their hot market....  So congratulations.

     I can only speak to the market I know, which is the Bay Area. People who purchased at literally the worst time in an entire century to purchase, 2006-2007, who did NOT "give it up and let the bank take over" are all sitting on a metric boat load of equity. They are out there right now either pulling equity out to make their next move, or are just sitting pretty on some dead sexy cashflow. 

    Hey, I'm sure you are correct about people you know. But I look at what I believe as accurate national data from sources I believe. In the aggregate, Oakland was getting back to "par" 2015Q2. So maybe the chart blows up after mid 2015, where all your "boat load" (10%.. 50%?) of equity comes from. I can't relate, though, since I don't own property outside NC at the moment. Our swings are generally a lot less violent. 320 to 200 to 320 in a decade... that doesn't happen where I am.

  • Investor · Orange County, CA · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Maria Tan:

    Two years ago, I bought a condo in Austin for $124K.  My friends told me that I paid too much, and it was best to wait for the market to cool down.  Guess what?  That condo is now worth $165K.  If I waited, I wouldn't be able to buy the condo since it would be out of my price range.  

    Austin is another market like Denver that has been shooting up like crazy over the past few years, but to my knowledge does not have a long term historical track record high appreciation, which would make me a bit nervous. Just curious, what is your thesis on your market? Do you think the appreciation is a fluke thing that is not long term sustainable and will eventually revert to the historical mean appreciation rates? Or do you think the market has "turned the corner" and will set off on a new long term trend of high appreciation? If it is the last one, what do you think has changed in the market supply and/or market demand over the last few years and why do you think that will continue on persistently in the future when it wasn't there is the past? I'm not familiar with the market, have no plans to invest there, and therefore no opinion one way or the other, just curious as to the opinion of locals in these type of markets.

  • Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2014 · 239 posts · 177 votes
    10y
    This has been a great read, thank you all for this valuable input. I guess I just got lucky reading the thread where all the seasoned big dogs were talking. Good stuff. Makes me fee a bit more open to the fact of investing in a market where it seems so "hot". I was told my purchase a year ago was stupid because the market was hot, and I'm already 60k+ in "dead sexy" equity -awesome verbiage Chris M. Ha!
  • Investor · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 8 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    I will tell you how to become rich. Close the doors. Be fearful when others are greedy. Be greedy when others are fearful. – Warren Buffet

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