Reliable Wholesalers
Scott AlfanoBusiness Member
Lender · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 64 posts · 20 votesReliable Wholesalers
Most Popular Reply
Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 780 votes
10yJohn, then you have not dealt with me! I have been a full time investor for 17 years and all the comps I provide my clients ARE based on real solds. Remember ARV calculations are based on a number of factors, not just solds. Unless you have access to the MLS to see the real differences between the sold houses (descriptions of condition and pictures) then it makes it difficult to come up with a real ARV. I AM a licensed realtor in Florida. Yes I provide many of my properties to my clients that I don't have an equitable interest in because I am an agent for the sellers. Providing a contractors written estimate of repairs needed is NOT NECESSARY when we have been doing this for so long we can give AN ESTIMATE of rehab costs. Yes look at all my threads and I am doing nothing but helping as many people as I can.
And YES I am selling properties with the best info that I can. Each property is different, so I am selling properties from 26% to 82% ARV. Some need alot of work and others don't with tenants already in place. I am marketing 57 properties all over central Florida with properties for all types of buyer interests, from Single Family Houses, Duplexes, Triplexes, Quads and small multifamily. I work with local private lenders that can provide up to 90% financing for purchase and rehab costs as long as the total is no more than 70% ARV. And I have another team that can rehab the properties, sell them or manage them with tenants.
I am also representing a company that owns 25 small (less than 50 units) multifamily properties in Chicago. They even provide owner financing and a complete turnkey operation.
PLEASE don't judge me based on your bad experiences with other 'wholesalers'.
33 Replies
- Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes10y
I cannot tell you any in your market, however, I have ideas that would relate to all
1. NEVER take their word. If they give you an ARV, ask for comps and make sure they are accurate comps
2. If they give you rehab estimates, make them provide WRITTEN bids from licensed contractors
3. make them provide a contract proving ownership interest
4. never pay non-refundable fees
So far, almost everyone I have encountered on BP or in person has been worthless. From bogus ARV, to idiots sending me listings off the MLS claiming all these huge profits, to crooks contacting me with no ownership interests, to crooks advertising in the marketplace with tens of millions of dollars of RE in their ad with no ownership, to crooks in the marketplace representing themselves as agents when they are not, etc,Remember: most of these guys are unlicensed operators brokering real estate without a license. They are not accountable to the state, have no license to lose, have no insurance, and from what I have seen cannot be trusted. Many are trying to make a buck regardless of how they do it. At the very least I would use a "wholesaler" that is at least a licensed agent. If you want to get a picture of many of these operators look at the threads on BP. Frauds and scammers!
- Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 780 votes10y
John, then you have not dealt with me! I have been a full time investor for 17 years and all the comps I provide my clients ARE based on real solds. Remember ARV calculations are based on a number of factors, not just solds. Unless you have access to the MLS to see the real differences between the sold houses (descriptions of condition and pictures) then it makes it difficult to come up with a real ARV. I AM a licensed realtor in Florida. Yes I provide many of my properties to my clients that I don't have an equitable interest in because I am an agent for the sellers. Providing a contractors written estimate of repairs needed is NOT NECESSARY when we have been doing this for so long we can give AN ESTIMATE of rehab costs. Yes look at all my threads and I am doing nothing but helping as many people as I can.
And YES I am selling properties with the best info that I can. Each property is different, so I am selling properties from 26% to 82% ARV. Some need alot of work and others don't with tenants already in place. I am marketing 57 properties all over central Florida with properties for all types of buyer interests, from Single Family Houses, Duplexes, Triplexes, Quads and small multifamily. I work with local private lenders that can provide up to 90% financing for purchase and rehab costs as long as the total is no more than 70% ARV. And I have another team that can rehab the properties, sell them or manage them with tenants.
I am also representing a company that owns 25 small (less than 50 units) multifamily properties in Chicago. They even provide owner financing and a complete turnkey operation.
PLEASE don't judge me based on your bad experiences with other 'wholesalers'.
- Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes10y
@Account Closed
OK..I take your post at face value. That being said, there are so many scammers pulling crap in that space. I did state that if they were to work with a "wholesaler" that I suggested at least using someone with a license. Just two days ago I got an email from a local one. Once I looked at the deal, there was NO deal. At least they stated there was no room for a flip! As to my post, I stand behind it. If I am patently wrong, please note. I am not here only to disagree. I like to provide as much help as possible, learn, and see different points of view. I WILL call out anyone, broker, agent, or "wholesaler" promoting illegal or unethical tactics. Can we agree that is fair?
BTW--you ARE licensed so you have SOMEONE to hold you accountable and something to lose.
- Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 780 votes10y
Enough said
- Real Estate Investor · Boca Raton, FL · Member since 2015 · 83 posts · 21 votes10y
hey @ Scott alfano,
I think the question should be if the deals are good and not if the wholesaler is good....
when you get a deal sent out to you you should know how to run the numbers. if you like what you see call the guy and ask if they are direct to seller. if they're not the deal could be sold already. . so you better check that before you move forward.
then drive there, estimate the rehab or call your contractor to give you an estimate on the spot. don't wait 2-3 days.. the deal might be sold.
if the deal is good chances are lots of people are going to check it and send offers. .
so you want to be the first in line direct to seller or direct representive.
don't take anyone word.
the real estate investing world is about making money. . and in most cases making money fast.. so trust only your own judgment. dont rely on anyone.. even people you have worked before can do mistakes.. and you can't blame anyone for bad investment.
I would suggest you to look for local REIA , meet the big groups and look for expirence people to work with... the ones that have been for years and will probably stay for more years..
also you can ask local hard money lenders who are the wholesalers that bring them the most deals..
good luck investing! !
- Wholesaler · Saint Cloud, FL · Member since 2016 · 1 post · 0 votes10yHello Stephen, I am interested in contacting you for some information on your properties. I tried to contact but it said info is hidden. Thanks, Joel
- Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 780 votes10y
Did you click on my picture? It has all the contact info.
- Lender · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 64 posts · 20 votes10y
In the last few weeks I have been receiving wholesaler emails from about a half dozen groups in the CFL area and nothing has compared to Stephen's. I have not run my own CMAs on the properties to verify, but I am talking about the information listed, the fact that he is licensed, the volume of properties, and the thorough run down for both rentals and flips.
- Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes10y
@Account Closed
I see Stephen's posts quite regularly. I have had no interactions with him except the posts in this thread. I will say one thing about him: I have never seen him promoting the dishonest and deception tactics promoted by some. I am pretty sure I am now known as the "wholesale basher" on BP. Note my previous post about using licensed people. I NEVER said some of these guys are not honest, etc. I have said many times that dishonesty and deception are the wrong way to operate. IF dishonest, deception, and lies are the standard operating procedure of any business, I won't be associated with them. We all have that choice. To date, my experience with almost all of them has been negative.
I will TRY and avoid reading any of these scammers post for at least 24 hours, find other topics, and be nice for a day:)
- Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 780 votes10y
Thanks Scott for the info. I am doing my best to give everybody the best info I can to make your own decisions.
- Lender · Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 64 posts · 20 votes10y
@John Thedford Your responses have been exactly what I am looking for. I had been getting the feeling that a good wholesaler is hard to find and I'm glad I'm not the only one. There's nothing wrong with calling out wholesalers that are more trouble than they're worth. I just hope I can find some other strong players, like @Account Closed.
My impression is that to flip successfully I need to be both the flipper and the wholesaler most of the time.
- Agent/Investor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2016 · 66 posts · 46 votes10y
lol sounds like John is still suffering from a bad breakup. keep in mind the only difference between ARV estimates from a wholesaler and most investors would be access to information and there is really only one web site that requires access that's the MLS any other web sites with comp. info everyone has access to so in short having a wholesaler without a real estate licences is kind of like having an assistant or a bird dog and if you expect more than that out of them (which I think in john"s case may have happened) you will be bitter and disappointed. It cost you nothing to turn down a wholesalers deal. however wholesalers with a real estate licence tend to be more accurate in estimations of AVR
As a wholesaler though the coin flips both ways most "investors" are scams they never have the money they say they have and its never available by closing most lie about cash or conventional loan. I could go on and one but in both scenarios you find a reputable wholesaler or investor and the sky is the limit.
- Investor · Bushnell, FL · Member since 2016 · 456 posts · 224 votes10y
can we all agree that there are a lot of so called inexperienced wholesalers that convince or for a lack of a better word trick homeowners into signing a sales agreement and not knowing that they are going into contract with a wholesaler . Then there are Also wholesalers that market other wholesalers properties and Then add on their finders fee on top of the original wholesaler. There's another business Model that fits that description where product keeps getting stepped on by middle men and by the time the end customer gets it the product is only half as pure as it began. I won't say what business I'm referring to but come on guys and gals we know what I'm comparing it to. With all due respect, even to the most seasoned wholesalers, I have seen this exact thing happen recently with a property I was doing due dilligance on from one wholesaler when I received a list of properties from another well known and respected licensed wholesaler. This property was on both lists from both wholesalers but the 2nd wholesaler who is the licensedone had marked that property up a additional $7500.00 above the original wholesaler. I got both lists of properties the same day. Now I understand everyone wants to make a buck but $7500 for a property that they don't even hold the contract to , well in my opinion there needs to be a bit more regulation on wholesalers. I think they serve a purpose but when abused and done unethically it hurts the property owner, the rehabber, other ethical wholesalers, real estate sale professional and the whole real estate industry in itself. Anyone can go out with little to no training or ethical standerds and become a so called wholesaler and with a fast tongue and a quicker pen talk unsuspecting property owners into signing a contract that reall only protects the wholesaler by giving them a easy out in case they can't market the property to a real buyer before the time limit is up. .. Doesn't anyone else see a problem with that ? I'll ask Question to all wholesalers .. When you ask the owner of a property to sign a contract do you intend to buy the property yourself and then market it to others or are you hoping to sell it to a real buyer before you have to pay for it in full ? even if you can afford to do it , do you ? On every property ? Do you market other wholesalers properties and mark them up acording to what you think you can sell them to one of your buyers for, no matter how much more you might be asking, even if you don't have the original contract between you and the owner ?
- Investor · Bushnell, FL · Member since 2016 · 456 posts · 224 votes10y
Well said Anthony Smith , the coin does go both ways , I myself am an investor and I wouldn't even think about miss representing myself on deals. I rely on financial investors as my partners to get deal bought. I do all the leg work and rehab and they supply the money for this we split profits 50/50 . The only way I would ever show up at closing with out the funds I promised is if something happend to my partner on the deal and if that happend and had no prior knowledge of this hypothetical situation, I would then use my own capital to cover the deal if I could. My word and promises mean everything to me. But unfortunately not everyone is like that . Thing is some wholesaling practices might be legal but that doesn't make then right .
- Agent/Investor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2016 · 66 posts · 46 votes10y
I just think people mistake the difference between bird dogs (someone who finds a deal and dose a guesstimation of cost) and a wholesaler (some one who puts their name on the line by engaging in a sales contract after doing a complete estimation.
Also i think some investors expect way to much out of both of the above mentioned they are a free service and it seems like investors want people to contact them with a 100% deal with no risk and all the leg work. walking a contractor through a house and getting an actual bid? How many times do you think you can do that before you are "the boy who cried wolf" to all your local contracting companies. you as an investor YOU need to do your do diligence after someone brings you the outline of a good deal even if they have a real estate licence or a contract anything less and you clearly are not a seasoned investor of anything.
I know a lot of investors say 80-90% of deals from wholesalers are worthless but guess what 80-90% of leads that wholesaler went through were worthless its all part of the funnel they talk about extensively here on BP. A wholesaler or a bird dog dose the nasty telemarketing, foot stomping, street sign hanging work that most don't want to do and investors don't have time for. It cost an investor nothing to turn down deals all day so in the spirit of net working maybe some should put in perspective that you shouldn't complain about a wholesaler or a bird dog unless YOU want to go back to beating the pavement just be happy you're at the end of the funnel If I send you a thousand crap deals and you make 30,000 off one and you doing work didn't even start till you knew you would make money then be happy I'm a good wholesaler for you
- Investor · Bushnell, FL · Member since 2016 · 456 posts · 224 votes10y
Anthony I understand the point your trying to get across but if I consistently get crab deals from one wholesaler not becase the deals crap per say but because they tack on to much then I won't probably even look at the deal that wholesaler sends me. Like the old saying goes "you can catch more flies with honey than crap" if a lot of inexperienced wholesalers didn' try to get rich off one deal but instead make a respectable profit deal after deal and not fraud the seller by representing that they themselves are going to buy their property ( some go as far as making a bogus proof of funds letter ) then there wouldn't be a need for regulation , I know there are some decent and honest wholesalers and they do serve a purpose but they are not even close to as many of the good one as there are bad ones , that being said I look a thing all deals and I never look at the wholesalers rehab estimate or arv. If the price and area and yes I even look at the pics provided and what I can find online to determine if I want to go inspect the property in person , then after that I wil decide if I want to move forward. I think where the breakdown is happening is that a lot of newbie's and even some veterans have forgotten that they are wholesalers and with out us investors they become agents. I appreciate your point of view and I have enjoyed debating the issue but I am done with my end of this , I doubt my aggument will change anyone's way of conducting themselves . Good luck and God Speed
- Agent/Investor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2016 · 66 posts · 46 votes10y
Understood Michael hopefully the bad experiences will help you appreciate the good wholesalers that much more. I'm just starting out and this post has shown me that the bar has been set pretty low. I don't plan on producing 100's of deals to investors I plan on producing 4 or five a year that meet exactly what investors on my list are looking for so when they open my emails they know its only a matter of if they want to make money on my deals not can they make money on them.
If wholesalers were as efficient as investors wanted then they would themselves be investors.
- Flipper/Rehabber · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 311 posts · 150 votes10y
It all depends on who you work with, if you read an email and take everything literally without deciding to do your own research, you are the only person you can hold liable.
- Orange City, FL · Member since 2016 · 4 posts · 3 votes10y
If anyone is interested, my wife and I are realtors in West Volusia. During the normal course of turning over stones to churn up seller/listing opportunities, we come by interesting investor leads. We are looking to supply investor leads in the Debary, Orange City, Deland, Deltona market in return for simply running the purchase/sale through us if you decide to buy. We have significant experience in REO & BPO and how banks price and do business. We would supply industry standard comps along with leads to help you decide if you want to take a look. Contact me if interested.
-Cheers!
Scott
- 10yThad MillerPro MemberEngineer · Santa Ynez, CA · Member since 2013 · 72 posts · 23 votes
I'm interested
- 10yJay HinrichsBusiness MemberReal Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
@Anthony Smith those are good points lots of flakes out there calling them selves investors.. its one reason most wholesalers want non refundable released money up front.. that weeds them out.
Now if more sellers understood this principal they would week out the crappy wholesalers.
currently my best deals are Auction dot com and other auction sites that require large deposits and REAL proof of funds.. I find those deals to be the best.. followed by really good OREO brokers who feed us deals .. then last wholesalers If I can get through the ones at are beginners or just total time wasters.
- Investor · Bushnell, FL · Member since 2016 · 456 posts · 224 votes10y
Scott, I would be incredibly interested if that area was closer to me , I wish more professionals were like you and your wife .. You two should go far .. Good luck and God Speed
- Agent/Investor · Detroit, MI · Member since 2016 · 66 posts · 46 votes10y
thank you all for sharing your concerns and problems with wholesalers it is extremely useful information for those of us who have chose it as our niche to break into investing. Hopefully in the future i will have deals and interactions with you guys on BP and you will see your time posting was not wasted i wish all of you success and happiness.
- Sandy Springs, GA · Member since 2017 · 31 posts · 5 votes9yStephen Anderson - I'm looking to purchase a property to flip here in the Orlando area (preferably south of Orlando). Please reach out to me so we can discuss opportunities to work together. Thanks!
- Flipper/Rehabber · Orlando, FL · Member since 2016 · 311 posts · 150 votes9y
This thread is entertaining
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