Non-conforming multi-family in R4, zoning/permitting nightmare!

Non-conforming multi-family in R4, zoning/permitting nightmare!

Real Estate Broker · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 229 posts · 145 votes

Hi, all. Someone I know is under contract on a property near the Beltline in West End. It's got 3 units with 3 addresses assigned by Zoning enforcement, although zoning still saying the use as a triplex is nonconforming. Fulton County tax records show the property is a coded as a duplex (style field of Improvement Information box). I understand a duplex may have an Accessory Dwelling Unit (ADU).

The objective is to get a permit to change the windows, put up siding, and add a fence.  The future owner would like to do the work themselves or with an unlicensed (and very affordable) contractor, but to get a permit they need a licensed contractor.  They want to do everything by the book, but don't understand the inspection process and don't want to invite an inspector to come over and throw the book at them.  The place has at least one unpermitted room and a bathroom and a few other building code violations.

Does anyone know how to navigate this hairy situation?  There are plenty of funds for the rehab, but the bureaucracy is a nightmare to deal with.   

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Investor · Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 313 posts · 207 votes
9y

The city of Atlanta is required by state law to have licensed contractors only pull permits for work on multifamily properties. They are considered commercial work due to the stricter building code requirements. The exemption is for work once every 2 years on the homeowner personal residence.

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  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    City of Atlanta and Fulton County Tax dept work completely separate from each other. Tax records have nothing to do with permits etc. 

    If zoning tells you that it's accepted non-conforming triplex, then go with that. That means that it's grandfathered in as triplex (but if it were to burn down, it couldn't get rebuilt as a triplex, but as current zoning as duplex). 

    I wouldn't worry about the unpermitted room or bathroom, as they'd be grandfathered in, having been there. 

    Who are they dealing with? We dealt with Felishia McCrary, but I believe she's no longer there. 

    I was first told that I needed to get a contractor, because the city saw our 6 duplexes as a single lot and thus saw them as multi-family, but then I've just applied for myself for each duplex and everything was fine. 

    If the buyers know what they're doing in regards to renovation, maybe they could happen to walk into Greg Pace's office? I happened to have walked into him and he sorted it all out for me, but didn't want to give me his name until the end...........

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    As owner of a residential dwelling they are allowed to get a permit in their names. Shouldn't be a problem. I always found the inspectors very nice, if I made it clear that I recognize that they have the power. I will ask advice. I will tell them, if I think I screwed up and ask what I should do now. 

    As homeowner, let them see the passion that you have for your project and be excited to show of it off. Always ask a question or 2. I've always found them to be very human and nice.

  • Real Estate Broker · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 229 posts · 145 votes
    9y

    Thanks, Michaela! The property will be purchased in an LLC's name to get rehab financing, so the city will not allow the owner to act as his own general contractor. I think there may be a few issues that should be fixed before an inspector comes to make sure the place is not condemned (e.g., major structural termite damage, small mold issue).

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    Well, my partner bought his 2 non-conforming duplexes (8 duplexes on 1 lot , with single family zoning) under his LLC and he got permits in his own name.

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @David Begley , maybe you can chime in?

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    Just came from city hall, trying to get a general building permit for a SFH I just bought. They refused, saying there's a new rule that owner/occupants can only get permits on houses they have as primary residence and that any other house needs a contractor. .........Aaargh!!!

  • Real Estate Broker · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 229 posts · 145 votes
    9y

    Ok, went down to City Hall today.  It looks like a homeowner can act as their own general contractor with permits in their name.  It didn't sound like it matters whose name the property is in, etc.  

    The outstanding issue is permits can't be processed on a non-conforming property until zoning approves the application for non-conforming continuous use.  

    Looks like someone would have to knock on doors until they can get 3 people to vouch that the property has been like that since before the zoning laws were in place (in 1976?), with one person confirming the property has been that way since 1954.  For any permitting issues, it seems like it is ok as long any unauthorized alterations took place before 1982, when the permitting process went in place. 

    The catch is that, if the place does not get the zoning inspectors approval, it has to  

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    Be careful, as I just wrote, they changed and a homeowner can no longer get their own permit for a property that they don't presently live in. So, they'd have to (or have to say) move in before they can get a permit. 

    As to the grandfathering - I went to the main library and looked at the criss-cross/Haynes directories. You can make photocopies of the pages that show 3 different parties living there, with notation of the year and that will be proof that it was a triplex at that time. 

    At the same time you can take down the names of people living next to and across and see if they are still there or in the neighborhood. They'd be the ones that could give you affidavits. 

  • Real Estate Broker · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 229 posts · 145 votes
    9y

    There may be a way to do it with a business license according to Keisha in Express Permits, but most of the rules seem unclear and unwritten.  

  • Developer · Decatur, GA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Michaela G.  Try an online permit.  Seems to be easier.  I think you spoke with the wrong person / wrong time. 

    @Nicholas LaGatta  You're really asking for trouble with those types of requests ... new windows, new siding, and new fence.  You would have a much easier permitting process if the work were to repair vs. go with new.  If this is Historic West End, then the permitting process could be much longer for this type work. 

    The other catch is whether the triplex has been occupied lately.  Owner will have to prove that it was and therefore grandfathered in.  

  • Real Estate Broker · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 229 posts · 145 votes
    9y

    The property is not in a historic district, but good point on minimizing the appearance of the scope of work.  However, many windows are mismatched or broken and the siding is halfway torn off (stolen) aluminium.  

    My approach is to apply for a conversion permit to convert the family to a single family residence, which is conforming.  I need a convincing and logical floorplan from my architect.  I will also convert the extra 2 kitchens to wetbars/kitchenettes and fully remove 220 plugs for stoves.  I believe this place is legally non-conforming, but for my timeline, I cannot take the risk of losing a month if the inspector disagrees.  I will later try to rezone as commercial like the properties on 2 sides.

    If the place is non-conforming, I am affraid I will never be able to refinance.

    Does this approach make sense?

  • Monmouth , NJ · Member since 2017 · 21 posts · 4 votes
    9y
    Nicholas L. This is unrelated to your zoning discussion , but if you don't mind a slight tangent, could you please expand on why an LLC would be easier to get construction loan? If it's too much for a post , please PM me if you are willing to discus . Thanks , and good luck!
  • Real Estate Broker · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 229 posts · 145 votes
    9y

    Jeremy, great question.  My hard money lender only lends to LLCs.

  • Real Estate Broker · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 229 posts · 145 votes
    9y

    Rick, I think online permits are limited to the items below that I pulled off the website:

    • Request Electrical & Plumbing permit for new or replacement electrical & plumbing for single family/duplex homes
  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Nicholas LaGatta:

    Rick, I think online permits are limited to the items below that I pulled off the website:

    • Request Electrical & Plumbing permit for new or replacement electrical & plumbing for single family/duplex homes

     I was looking for that as well, because someone told me to try it online, but couldn't find that option for an owner

  • Investor · Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 313 posts · 207 votes
    9y

    The city of Atlanta is required by state law to have licensed contractors only pull permits for work on multifamily properties. They are considered commercial work due to the stricter building code requirements. The exemption is for work once every 2 years on the homeowner personal residence.

  • Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    9y

    @Stan Sugarman , this is new. I pulled a permit for a duplex I own beginning of march, without any problem

  • Investor · Decatur, GA · Member since 2015 · 313 posts · 207 votes
    9y

    Duplexes are residential under building code.

  • Real Estate Broker · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2017 · 229 posts · 145 votes
    9y

    This link has the homeowner's affidavit with the new rules:

    http://www.atlantaga.gov/index.aspx?page=1251

  • New to Real Estate · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2020 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    2y
    Quote from @Michaela G.:

    Be careful, as I just wrote, they changed and a homeowner can no longer get their own permit for a property that they don't presently live in. So, they'd have to (or have to say) move in before they can get a permit. 

    As to the grandfathering - I went to the main library and looked at the criss-cross/Haynes directories. You can make photocopies of the pages that show 3 different parties living there, with notation of the year and that will be proof that it was a triplex at that time. 

    At the same time you can take down the names of people living next to and across and see if they are still there or in the neighborhood. They'd be the ones that could give you affidavits. 


    Hi Michaela, have you had any more recent experience filing for non-conforming continuous use? I found an off-market duplex with ADU that is non-conforming, and I would love to buy it to rehab it (keeping all 3 units). Lot is zoned R-4, but the structures date back to 1930 (main building) and 1940 (ADU). It would be a shame if the city were to force me to convert the duplex back into a single family.

    Would you be willing to connect?

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