The dark side of a 28 day notice

The dark side of a 28 day notice

Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes

I am upset with a landlord, who is playing it by the book. And maybe I am taking my job as an agent to personal, but this did cost me some sleep last night. I wrote an offer for a new client last weekend on a very nice starter home in the mid 200s - I just met them at an open house and they expressed they were in a hurry and had identified a property. They were pre-approved with a good local bank, I spoke with their loan officer, low down payment, but everything checks out. So we wrote a very clean offer, seller loves it, but is asking us for more than 30 days to close - they have not found a home on their own yet and want 45 days at least. Come to find out, my clients will be on the street in 28 days. 

I usually know the basics about my clients, because I start every relationship with a meeting in my office to discuss the market and the process - and we go trough their story, discuss goals and motivation. So here we have the cart before the horse, I find out their back story after I have presented the offer: they have been served a 28 day notice by their landlord. 

They live in a nice duplex, their rent is current, the two owners (business partners) have decided to put the property on the market and have hired a PM to serve a 28 day notice, which puts their move out date in the middle of December. I called the owner last night and explained the situation to see what is so critical about December 5th and if they were willing to give them a couple extra weeks if we would show them an accepted offer. He told me they were going to sell the place and they will absolutley not budge. He was very suspicious of me and accused me of missleading him or not telling him the full story - reflecting on it, that's probably the reason I am upset. It just rubs me the wrong way. So here we are, a family who wants to sell their home, a family that wants to buy it and we can't make it happen, because the landlord is sticking to his 28 day notice. My Buyers are in a weak position and I really want to help them and make that dream of ownership reality - they just have enough for the down payment and hotel + storage is not feasible they say. 

My head is telling me they should find another place to rent and not waste my time and energy on a small deal, my heart wants to help them; what do you guys think I should do?

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Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
6y

I don't see what is stopping the tenant/buyer from holding over for an extra week. There isn't anything their landlord can do to get them out quickly.

I also don't see what is stopping them from getting an air bnb or motel for the period in between. 

They have a few options. You did right by trying to help them out, but it isn't really your problem to solve.

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  • Joe SplitrockPro Member
    Moderator
    Rental Property Investor · Sioux Falls, SD · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 18k+ votes
    6y

    @Marcus Auerbach my initial thought was for them to get a Pod or U-Box and load it up, then stay at a hotel for two weeks. The total for that may be $1500-2000. Of course it is even better news that the landlord is willing to extend their stay. All you need to do is show him the accepted offer, so this seems pretty straight forward.

    The landlord being skeptical is probably because landlords get lied to all the time. It is in a landlords nature to be skeptical and ask for proof. I would not worry about it.

    It is a little scary that they are buying a house but don't have even a couple extra thousand dollars in savings. One HVAC or major sewer problem and they are in further debt to fix it. Not everyone is ready to own a home. But ultimately that is not your problem. I would help them get the deal done.

  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    6y

    Have them talk to the landlord.  They could offer him a bit of a premium on the rent for those two weeks to stay and offer to be open to showings.  Otherwise, is there a friend or family member they can stay with?

  • Real Estate Broker · Watertown, NY · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    6y

    @Marcus Auerbach -  I wish I lived in an area where I could look at a $200k deal and ponder whether doing it was worth my time or not. 

    But yeah, show the landlord the PO, and even offer him $500 at closing for helping facilitate the deal. Use this as a way to build a relationship with a new client who might buy/sell many properties with you down the road.

  • Property Manager · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2014 · 113 posts · 144 votes
    6y

    You mentioned the 28-day notice puts there move out in the middle of December... 28-day notices have to fall with the regular term (monthly) for both tenants AND landlords.  If the notice was served mid-November, your client has until the end of December to move out. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2016 · 180 posts · 161 votes
    6y

    If I were your clients I’d probably just stay past the move out deadline. What’s the worst that happens? Landlord tries to evict? I bet he’ll be much more willing to listen when looking at those fees. Besides the eviction process can go to mediation and they’ll likely end up getting that extra time


    bottom line is this isn’t a landlord problem, it’s a money problem. Rent to own transition is never smooth and lease end dates never line up with closing dates. Buyers should budget for that. If you had them go back to renting, they would likely have this problem in the future.

  • South Holland, IL · Member since 2017 · 376 posts · 432 votes
    6y

    @Marcus Auerbach

    You could pay the $2k for their hotel stay until close if you really believe they will close and subtract it from your commission. You’d still net $3/4K and not be remorseful.

  • Madison, WI · Member since 2018 · 31 posts · 20 votes
    6y

    @Marcus Auerbach Are there any vacant homes for sale they're interested in? Anything that's been on the market for a while? I too was desperate for a home, willing to close in two weeks, baby due at the end of the month and sublease ending, but no one would budge in a hot market! Found a home over budget, but offered low and asked to move in right away (before closing) for an extra $1,000 up front - they accepted. Practically our dream house, but it worked out. Best of luck to them.

  • Rental Property Investor · Belgium, WI · Member since 2015 · 53 posts · 54 votes
    6y

    Seems like theres the buisness answer or the personal one. A good nights sleep is worth something too. 

    I've both needed a place to stay and ive provided one a few times.

    I heard a story once about couch serving and craigslist, on a podcast i think. This guy on the west coast found free places to stay on craigslist for a week at a time. If this is their dream, and considering their constraints, maybe they're willing to be "creative" in the meantime. 

    "Live like noone would, to live like noone can"

    Good luck.

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    6y

    I don't see what is stopping the tenant/buyer from holding over for an extra week. There isn't anything their landlord can do to get them out quickly.

    I also don't see what is stopping them from getting an air bnb or motel for the period in between. 

    They have a few options. You did right by trying to help them out, but it isn't really your problem to solve.

  • Chicago · Member since 2018 · 216 posts · 165 votes
    6y

    I would talk to the landlord again. Even in Milwaukee, in the dead of winter, I'm pretty sure they couldn't evict your tenants in the 2 weeks you're asking for. (Ask other brokers/attorneys in Milwaukee for confirmation.) And their worst nightmare as sellers is to have holdover tenants who have to be evicted. So, I'd casually mention to the LL that you really need those two weeks and you will pay them a premium for them but you know he can't do anything about it if they were to force the issue so why not be reasonable? 

    Shoot, where I am, the entire eviction system grinds to a halt over the winter because the Sheriff refuses to serve eviction orders during the winter. Find out what the deal is in Milwaukee and use that to negotiate your deal. 

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y

    Thanks everyone! I had a chance to fill in the blanks and better understand the situation - my clients had been served a 28 day notice on October 31st, which starts the clock on November 1st (Thanks @Matt Mauricefor clarifing that for me) and so their last rent is November 30st. If they would have gotten the notice at the beginning of October, it would have given them almost 2 months to November 30th to find a home. So I have to give the landlord a little credit here, because they already had agreed to an additional 5 days before I called them...

    My clients started to open up to me and not only are they very un-informed about the buying process (we have started to fill that gap the last days) but they are also financially illiterate - I did not know how much they did not know. For example they keep the downpayment at home in cash, because their bank told them once that they can't take out more than $2,000 from their bank account. They were worried if they would deposit the money, they would not be able to get it back! So, we had that conversation as well and I am sure I will discover a few more false believes.

    They are good people, humble and very content with how the world is treating them, almost submissive to society. My wife and I had a conversation about priviledge this morning - I believe one of the biggest privileges is to be surrounded by people who can watch and learn from and having access to information and guidence. How would you look at the world, if you would believe that you can't access your money once you have brought it to the bank!!? 

    The next conversation I need to have with them is the difference between a starter home and a move-up. Between their time frame, budget, expectation on condition and size, we are chasing a unicorn. We only have 16 homes that meet their criteria on size and prize and I gave them the list last night and told them that's it - it's going to be one of those. Their understanding of inventory was that they have never seen it all and they were on Zillow and Trulia and always hoping to discover the ONE. Now we know, we have 16 homes and less than 30 days to close one of them - I hope that clarity helps. 

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Joe Splitrock:

    @Marcus Auerbach my initial thought was for them to get a Pod or U-Box and load it up, then stay at a hotel for two weeks. The total for that may be $1500-2000. Of course it is even better news that the landlord is willing to extend their stay. All you need to do is show him the accepted offer, so this seems pretty straight forward.

    The landlord being skeptical is probably because landlords get lied to all the time. It is in a landlords nature to be skeptical and ask for proof. I would not worry about it.

    It is a little scary that they are buying a house but don't have even a couple extra thousand dollars in savings. One HVAC or major sewer problem and they are in further debt to fix it. Not everyone is ready to own a home. But ultimately that is not your problem. I would help them get the deal done.

    We own a portfolio and I get it - my tenants have fed me a few stories over the years. I am just not used to someone questioning my words so blatently lol - I felt insulted but I am getting over it.

    You are right - it is scary that they have no reserves, so hopefully I can educate them a little bit along the way on how to manage finances for a home. Depending on condition we may have to negotiate a home warranty. I will try to help them - the Seller would still love to accept their offer; hopefully they find a house soon - otherwise we have a few more properties to look at.

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Theresa Harris:

    Have them talk to the landlord.  They could offer him a bit of a premium on the rent for those two weeks to stay and offer to be open to showings.  Otherwise, is there a friend or family member they can stay with?

    I called the landlord personally, they are two partners owning that duplex together and they have a chip on their shoulder. One of them holds a real estate license and he is the one who laid out the plan for the sale of the property. He wants both units empty for the sale and they are planning to list it mide December, so just before Christmas, which obviosuly does not make any sense because he is wasting the most valuable first ten days on market. I looked him up, he has done zero deals this year. Go figure. 

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Michael Ablan:

    @Marcus Auerbach -  I wish I lived in an area where I could look at a $200k deal and ponder whether doing it was worth my time or not. 

    But yeah, show the landlord the PO, and even offer him $500 at closing for helping facilitate the deal. Use this as a way to build a relationship with a new client who might buy/sell many properties with you down the road.

    My thinking exactly, but they just blocked any conversation. It's not about the money for me, my consideration is always time - that's my limited ressource and I have to be careful how I spend it. These clients will need a lot of education and guidance on top of everything that goes into the transaction, plus they are financially a little fragile. But I have decided I will do what I can, we had several conversations yesterday and I want them to succeed and spend Christmas in a new home!

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Matt Maurice:

    You mentioned the 28-day notice puts there move out in the middle of December... 28-day notices have to fall with the regular term (monthly) for both tenants AND landlords.  If the notice was served mid-November, your client has until the end of December to move out. 

     Thanks for the call yesterday Matt! That was helpful!

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Adam Gollatz:

    If I were your clients I’d probably just stay past the move out deadline. What’s the worst that happens? Landlord tries to evict? I bet he’ll be much more willing to listen when looking at those fees. Besides the eviction process can go to mediation and they’ll likely end up getting that extra time


    bottom line is this isn’t a landlord problem, it’s a money problem. Rent to own transition is never smooth and lease end dates never line up with closing dates. Buyers should budget for that. If you had them go back to renting, they would likely have this problem in the future.

     You are right Adam, I had not thought that far, there is very little they can do if they overstay a week or two and even pay rent. They would be out by the time they have a hearing date plus a bunch of cost. I don't like to play it this way, amicable solutions are always my preference, but we may have to play hardball.

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Marcus Auerbach Are there any vacant homes for sale they're interested in? Anything that's been on the market for a while? I too was desperate for a home, willing to close in two weeks, baby due at the end of the month and sublease ending, but no one would budge in a hot market! Found a home over budget, but offered low and asked to move in right away (before closing) for an extra $1,000 up front - they accepted. Practically our dream house, but it worked out. Best of luck to them.

    Well played Melissa, and a bold move to offer low. Perhaps they knew they were overpriced and ready to accept it - was that the mama bear instinct that kicked in?

  • Lender · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2019 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    6y

    @Marcus Auerbach If your buyers are short on cash to pay for a hotel/storage for a couple weeks...one easy strategy that I don’t see mentioned is to work out a seller credit with the sellers of the home they are buying.

    If you already have an agreed upon price (say $200,000). Raise the price up by $3,000 or $4,000...and take a seller credit at closing (talk with the lender but basically just have it say the credit is for “closing costs and prepaids”).

    It’s the same net amount to the seller...but saves the buyer that cash at the closing table. And it frees up their cash to pay for a hotel/storage. Should only affect their monthly mortgage payment by like $10-$15 do it shouldn’t affect qualifying either (again...run the plan by the lender).

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Quincy Lockett:

    @Marcus Auerbach

    You could pay the $2k for their hotel stay until close if you really believe they will close and subtract it from your commission. You’d still net $3/4K and not be remorseful.

    I suppose I could do that, but that's a line I don't cross for several reasons. Number one, it is shocking how many people are straped for money - even on expensive deals - I can't always chip in and cut into my pay. It's a matter of personal responsibility. I'll help with good advice as much as I can.

    I have a listing that will close next week, life has not been fair with the owners and on top of that they both have cancer. They can't afford the electrical repairs we had to do, so I hooked them up with my electrician and he will get at closing - he knows I will make keep him whole if things go bad, but I won't let it come that far, that's my job.

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Seems like theres the buisness answer or the personal one. A good nights sleep is worth something too. 

    I've both needed a place to stay and ive provided one a few times.

    I heard a story once about couch serving and craigslist, on a podcast i think. This guy on the west coast found free places to stay on craigslist for a week at a time. If this is their dream, and considering their constraints, maybe they're willing to be "creative" in the meantime. 

    "Live like noone would, to live like noone can"

    Good luck.

     If there is a will, you can find a way. I agree with you Josh! They have 3 little girls, so we have to do a little better than a couch, but we will look into AirBnb. 

  • Investor · Milwaukee - Mequon, WI · Member since 2010 · 5k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Tom O.:

    I would talk to the landlord again. Even in Milwaukee, in the dead of winter, I'm pretty sure they couldn't evict your tenants in the 2 weeks you're asking for. (Ask other brokers/attorneys in Milwaukee for confirmation.) And their worst nightmare as sellers is to have holdover tenants who have to be evicted. So, I'd casually mention to the LL that you really need those two weeks and you will pay them a premium for them but you know he can't do anything about it if they were to force the issue so why not be reasonable? 

    Shoot, where I am, the entire eviction system grinds to a halt over the winter because the Sheriff refuses to serve eviction orders during the winter. Find out what the deal is in Milwaukee and use that to negotiate your deal. 

    Thanks Tom - my goal is always to find a win-win for everyone, but if that's not possible - we may have to do what you suggest, at least for a few days! The guy is a bully and the tenants are afraid of him. I think the fact that they have 3 little girls makes them feel more vulnerable than if you are just a couple or a single guy. But it's an option!

  • Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Marcus Auerbach:

    Thanks everyone! I had a chance to fill in the blanks and better understand the situation - my clients had been served a 28 day notice on October 31st, which starts the clock on November 1st (Thanks @Matt Mauricefor clarifing that for me) and so their last rent is November 30st. If they would have gotten the notice at the beginning of October, it would have given them almost 2 months to November 30th to find a home. So I have to give the landlord a little credit here, because they already had agreed to an additional 5 days before I called them...

    My clients started to open up to me and not only are they very un-informed about the buying process (we have started to fill that gap the last days) but they are also financially illiterate - I did not know how much they did not know. For example they keep the downpayment at home in cash, because their bank told them once that they can't take out more than $2,000 from their bank account. They were worried if they would deposit the money, they would not be able to get it back! So, we had that conversation as well and I am sure I will discover a few more false believes.

    They are good people, humble and very content with how the world is treating them, almost submissive to society. My wife and I had a conversation about priviledge this morning - I believe one of the biggest privileges is to be surrounded by people who can watch and learn from and having access to information and guidence. How would you look at the world, if you would believe that you can't access your money once you have brought it to the bank!!? 

    The next conversation I need to have with them is the difference between a starter home and a move-up. Between their time frame, budget, expectation on condition and size, we are chasing a unicorn. We only have 16 homes that meet their criteria on size and prize and I gave them the list last night and told them that's it - it's going to be one of those. Their understanding of inventory was that they have never seen it all and they were on Zillow and Trulia and always hoping to discover the ONE. Now we know, we have 16 homes and less than 30 days to close one of them - I hope that clarity helps. 


    Probably not the answer you want, but I would steer them away from a home right now. It doesn't sound like they would be able to handle ANYTHING going wrong with the house, financially speaking. Instead I would point them towards some cheap apartments and a couple financial literacy classes.
  • Real Estate Appraiser · Isabella lake, CA · Member since 2018 · 628 posts · 491 votes
    6y

    Do what you can to be the good guy.

    Not the Grinch. :)

  • Brookfield, WI · Member since 2016 · 191 posts · 108 votes
    6y

    I don't see how this negates the purchase of the house.  Sure, it would be great if they could get in sooner, but will they be able to close on ANOTHER property in less than 28 days?  Seems like they need to give the seller the 45 days, and figure it out for a month.  TRY to work something out with the landlord, or find a 1 month rental, storage plus crash with friends, whatever.  Maybe as an agent you have a client with a vacant  home they would be willing to rent out for a month or two?  They get free "staging" of the house, and it's not vacant....there are options.

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