Investor · Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
@Jeff Beler@Tahric FinnGuys, stop looking for properties. You have to focus on finding motivated sellers who need to sell and then offer a solution to their problem. That's how you create good deals.
To do this you need to generate your own leads. The trick is to position yourself as either the 1st person they call, or the last person they call.
1st position: In this case you want people calling you who have a pressing time constraint that prevents them from getting their property market ready, listing it, negotiating and waiting to close. They need to sell NOW and they're willing to take a below-market price to get their cash fast.
Last position: In this case you want people calling who have tried everything to sell their property and have nearly lost hope that it's ever going to happen. They probably owe as much as the house is worth and can't lower their price to get it sold because they'll have to pay their agent out of their pocket, and they can't afford that. They're willing to let you just take over their payments.
Now go figure out how to get in contact with those people and you will find that there is an abundance of deals everywhere.
Investor · Taipei, Taiwan · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 1 vote
10y
This is my first time posting on bp. Not sure if this is the place to introduce myself but haven't gotten the hang of the forums yet. My name is Tahric and im from Brampton Ontario. I'm currently living in Taiwan but am looking to buy a place in Brampton, with help from my father (in Brampton) signing for the mortgage.
My goal is to have a buy and hold rental, we've been looking at 2 unit homes, with basement apartments. Any advice o direction would be great. I could use some help on how the numbers should look. Like shaft kind of rent should I be seeking to collect on a place going for say 420,000 for the whole thing to make sense. Or where would I find a good calculator for this.
And ah, in reply to your topic, I'm looking at palaces in the GTA. This will be my first real estate purchase, and I'm pretty anxious already
2 unit homes are definitely a better way to go for ROI, rents are so low compared to purchase prices in the GTA that it's hard even to break even with single family homes.
Investor · St. Catharines, Ontario · Member since 2014 · 18 posts · 3 votes
10y
Hey all,
I invest in the Niagara region and like everyone else, wanted to house hack with a duplex, or larger.
One of the troubles seems to be that the sellers want top dollar. Most all would be negative cash flow on every unit that i have looked at so for, but i still have my fingers crossed that i will find one that makes sense.
Another trouble I am finding is that on the listings, the agent is claiming that the properties are multi units, but when you check the zoning, they are not legally zoned for MF use, and depending on the municipality, will NEVER be rezoned for MF.
Also, know what the fire code is on MF in your area before you put in an offer. Again most agents don't understand this, and the retrofit cost could skyrocket and make the property negatively cash flow.
2 unit homes are definitely a better way to go for ROI, rents are so low compared to purchase prices in the GTA that it's hard even to break even with single family homes.
Investor · Taipei, Taiwan · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 1 vote
10y
Thsnks Luc,
Do you find it's anymore difficult to find renters for a place that is shared? Meaning are people less willing if someone already lives upstairs or downstairs? I've akso heard it mentioned that basement renters are somewhat less stable as far as long term stays.
Do you find it's anymore difficult to find renters for a place that is shared? Meaning are people less willing if someone already lives upstairs or downstairs? I've akso heard it mentioned that basement renters are somewhat less stable as far as long term stays.
It is probably a little more difficult to find renters, but there's no shortage of renters. I had a duplex outside of Toronto (don't own this one anymore). Before I converted the duplex, I rented the single family bungalow for $1,650/month + Hydro. I converted this bungalow into a duplex, with separate hydro meters, and was getting $1,450 for the main floor and $1,270 for the basement (originally asking $1,200, agreed to rent it for $1,270 because they had a dog).
Are the basement renters less stable? A little. I depends in part on your basement. If it's a nice space, tenants will be willing to stay a long time even in a basement. One thing you need to be careful of is the noise carry between the units, I did everything I could to reduce noise transfer, and that probably helped keep the tenants happy (even though it didn't stop all the noise).
Investor · Taipei, Taiwan · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 1 vote
10y
Thats a good point. I hadn't considered noise transfer. What are some things you did to reduce noise? Lamimate? Rugs? Or is that something you would just consider before purchasing the property?
Investor · Kitchener-Waterloo, Ontario · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
@Jeff Beler@Tahric FinnGuys, stop looking for properties. You have to focus on finding motivated sellers who need to sell and then offer a solution to their problem. That's how you create good deals.
To do this you need to generate your own leads. The trick is to position yourself as either the 1st person they call, or the last person they call.
1st position: In this case you want people calling you who have a pressing time constraint that prevents them from getting their property market ready, listing it, negotiating and waiting to close. They need to sell NOW and they're willing to take a below-market price to get their cash fast.
Last position: In this case you want people calling who have tried everything to sell their property and have nearly lost hope that it's ever going to happen. They probably owe as much as the house is worth and can't lower their price to get it sold because they'll have to pay their agent out of their pocket, and they can't afford that. They're willing to let you just take over their payments.
Now go figure out how to get in contact with those people and you will find that there is an abundance of deals everywhere.
Thats a good point. I hadn't considered noise transfer. What are some things you did to reduce noise? Lamimate? Rugs? Or is that something you would just consider before purchasing the property?
Noise transfer is something you can take care of if converting a property to a duplex. If you have a property that wasn't renovated to actually be a duplex, you probably just have 1/2" drywall on the ceiling with empty joist cavities. There's probably quite a bit of noise transfer.
I converted a property to a duplex about a year ago. I took down the old 1/2 drywall (not fire rated, so wouldn't have been allowed to make a legal duplex). I first filled the joist cavities with sound insulation (Roxul Safe n Sound is good because it is also fire rated, there's also a pink insulation for sound that is cheaper but not fire rated). I then installed resilient channel, it's metal track that hangs off your ceiling joists and you screw the drywall to, this results in the drywall hanging off the joist, and significantly reduces the noise of things being dropped or banging on the floor above. I then used 5/8" drywall, which is thicker, and is necessary for fire resistance in two unit homes.
This helped a ton with the noise. One thing is that you still get noise through the vent pipes if you have central air. This can be a lot of noise transfer, and is the only reason you can still hear anything from above in the property I mentioned. It is much better than it would have been, but some people go a step further and install baffles in the vents which reduce noise transfer even more.
I probably went a little further than I needed to, but I figured since I had the ceiling open, it was the right time to do it. Noise between units leads to higher turnover, and animosity between tenants.
@Jeff Beler@Tahric FinnGuys, stop looking for properties. You have to focus on finding motivated sellers who need to sell and then offer a solution to their problem. That's how you create good deals.
To do this you need to generate your own leads. The trick is to position yourself as either the 1st person they call, or the last person they call.
1st position: In this case you want people calling you who have a pressing time constraint that prevents them from getting their property market ready, listing it, negotiating and waiting to close. They need to sell NOW and they're willing to take a below-market price to get their cash fast.
Last position: In this case you want people calling who have tried everything to sell their property and have nearly lost hope that it's ever going to happen. They probably owe as much as the house is worth and can't lower their price to get it sold because they'll have to pay their agent out of their pocket, and they can't afford that. They're willing to let you just take over their payments.
Now go figure out how to get in contact with those people and you will find that there is an abundance of deals everywhere.
How is this working for you in Ontario? What do you do to get yourself in first position? DM? Bandit signs? I've been looking for lists for Direct Mailing, but i can't find anything useful other than perhaps mailing to certain age groups.
Investor · Taipei, Taiwan · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 1 vote
10y
I was about to ask the same. When looking for motivated sellers, I generally come across selling agents who are using the search term to draw people to their pages.
Thats a good point. I hadn't considered noise transfer. What are some things you did to reduce noise? Lamimate? Rugs? Or is that something you would just consider before purchasing the property?
Noise transfer is something you can take care of if converting a property to a duplex. If you have a property that wasn't renovated to actually be a duplex, you probably just have 1/2" drywall on the ceiling with empty joist cavities. There's probably quite a bit of noise transfer.
I converted a property to a duplex about a year ago. I took down the old 1/2 drywall (not fire rated, so wouldn't have been allowed to make a legal duplex). I first filled the joist cavities with sound insulation (Roxul Safe n Sound is good because it is also fire rated, there's also a pink insulation for sound that is cheaper but not fire rated). I then installed resilient channel, it's metal track that hangs off your ceiling joists and you screw the drywall to, this results in the drywall hanging off the joist, and significantly reduces the noise of things being dropped or banging on the floor above. I then used 5/8" drywall, which is thicker, and is necessary for fire resistance in two unit homes.
This helped a ton with the noise. One thing is that you still get noise through the vent pipes if you have central air. This can be a lot of noise transfer, and is the only reason you can still hear anything from above in the property I mentioned. It is much better than it would have been, but some people go a step further and install baffles in the vents which reduce noise transfer even more.
I probably went a little further than I needed to, but I figured since I had the ceiling open, it was the right time to do it. Noise between units leads to higher turnover, and animosity between tenants.
How is this working for you in Ontario? What do you do to get yourself in first position? DM? Bandit signs? I've been looking for lists for Direct Mailing, but i can't find anything useful other than perhaps mailing to certain age groups.
Hi Luc, I prefer to take over payments so I aim for last position.
There are 2 times when people hit that 'hopeless' moment, the first is when they're an FSBO and realize they're not going to be able to sell the property themselves. For that I just call them, let them know I can probably do better than an agent, and suggest they call before they list.
The second time is after they've been listed for awhile and again realize it's not going to sell. For that I do direct mail to MLS listings that have been up for at least a month with no price reductions. If a house stagnates on the MLS with no price drops there's an excellent chance that they can't afford to lower the price.
Investor · Taipei, Taiwan · Member since 2016 · 11 posts · 1 vote
10y
Those are some good tips Luc. I'll need to keep those in mind when we look at places now. Gives us some good questions to ask about duplexes that have already been set up.
Investor · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2016 · 19 posts · 20 votes
10y
Hi All,
I personally was discouraged by the GTA market due to the cap rates etc and now focus my investments and flips in more of eastern Ontario which have been quite successful over the past two years. I have developed a great network of brokers, agents, contractors etc. for holds and flip/holds. If anyone is interested, feel free to get in touch with me.
Real Estate Investor · Oshawa, Ontario · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 1 vote
10y
@Tyler BruceDo you wholesale properties? or buy them with your own capitol as opposed to using an end buyer. Seems there isnt any people that take the wholesaling approach in Canada
Investor · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2016 · 19 posts · 20 votes
10y
@Leo RobinsonI have never personally wholesaled however I have done some vendor take-backs. Wholesaling seems to be tough in Canada as most people are well aware of their property value and can get asking price on the market. It does happen in some larger commercial properties by means of renegotiating leases during the due diligence period however I have never gone this route.
Real Estate Agent · Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge, Ontario · Member since 2013 · 408 posts · 90 votes
10y
I have completed whole sale deals, they are very tough but possible if you look hard, just don't rely on them.
@Tyler Bruce Would ever be interested in flips out in the KWC region? If so let me know and I will add you to my list for the next time I stumble across one. My market moves quickly though, so generally you only get about a 1 day window to buy.
Investor · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2016 · 19 posts · 20 votes
10y
@Samuel Sedoreyes, are actually interested in that area as we have a local contractor. We previously had an agent however he wasn't able to understand what exactly we were looking for. Please add me to your list!
Real Estate Agent · Kitchener-Waterloo-Cambridge, Ontario · Member since 2013 · 408 posts · 90 votes
10y
Shoot me an email with your criteria and I will build it into my morning search. If you have no problem putting a conditional offer on a property sight-unseen based on numbers, there are deals to be had.
semi retired · Toronto, Ontario · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 4 votes
10y
Hi everyone,
Interesting thread. Glad to see a strong Ontario contingent on here. I'm from Toronto but we just closed on our first property in Hamilton yesterday - a five-plex in one of the nicer areas in the city. Had posted late last year about a deal we came close to going firm on on but walked away in the end due to issues we found in the home inspection. All good now because we found what we think to was a better deal in a better part of town - looking to avoid some of the problem areas in the city and deal with better tenants.
Would be very interested in a Meetup either in Hamilton or Toronto.
Toronto , Ontario · Member since 2016 · 19 posts · 8 votes
10y
Hello everyone,
Great to see a strong presence of Ontario on BP!
My partner and I are fairly new to REI currently seeking out our first investment property. When not looking at houses we're educating ourselves as much as possible via BP, books, and networking with others. We are from the Toronto area but looking to invest in Hamilton at this time for a buy and hold. Hoping to gain some passive income through this strategy. Our goal is to purchase one property per year for the next decade or so (more or less). And one thing we've figured out right off the hop is that it can never be done alone. Hoping to continue to connect with you all here on BP and out there in the field.
If anyone has some juicy nuggets about the Hamilton area (or about this strategy in general) that they would love to share please do!
@Joe Di Fonzo congratulations on your first property!
Real Estate Investor · Hamilton, Ontario · Member since 2015 · 28 posts · 9 votes
10y
Hi Angelo, I am a investor/realtor from Toronto and have been looking at Hamilton as well. I recommend you look at areas where big developers are building and where the city is investing in infrastructure. Also look around Locke St South, lots of demand for rentals around there. Another up and coming area is around the new West Harbour Go Station with quick access to Toronto. Do your due diligence in regards to whom your potential neighbours are in some areas. (lot's of rooming houses around there). Let me know If I can be on any help. I will be going back there sometimes next week to look at properties and you are more than welcome to come with me. Take care for now!