Fortune Builders
Wholesaler · Macomb, MI · Member since 2009 · 57 posts · 8 votes
Hello fellow BP members. Has anyone taken the training provided by Than Merrill's group Fortune Builders? I'm looking for any pros and cons in taking this or any "Guru" type training. Any responses will be greatly appreciated.
Robert, do you have any affiliation with fortune builders other than being a past client of their products? Since this is your very first post on this site and your post appeared to be "pro" fortune builders in nature, we all want to be sure. Many times, some guru company gets a search engine hit for these posts and sends one of their own in to make a favorable post for that company. We strive to remove such occurrences here at BP Nation.
I would add that any such good information that was given in that $2500 fee you paid could likely have been obtained for free right here on BP or by reading books on the topics of interest.
I have attended the 3 day workshop with fortune builders.
What i can tell you from my own experience that these guys are extremely pushy.
They make it look so easy, get you motivated and excited with this hope of being rich if and only if you purchase their mastery program.
I was actually so excited and expecting that this program is gonna give me a lot of extra missing things in my education, or at least do actual case studies but that was not the case. They gave me nothing in return for the 200$.
They spend literally half the time during the event on marketing their mastery program...
I honestly felt pity for people purchasing this program ( cheapest one is $20,000 ).
Reading books and searching is the best way to learn the basics of real estate.. like i'm doing:)
Good Luck
I just attended the Fortune Builders 3 day seminar in Albany NY. I own a number of rentals and also am a contractor and Home Inspector. My reaction is mixed. I got a lot out of the information provided, things I did not know about investing. It was worth the $200 for what I received, mostly motivation to pursue my education and grow what I had started. Now for the negative, the pitch for the Mastery program was woven throughout the whole seminar. It was incessant and became wearisome by the end of the weekend. The programs started at 20k and went to 35k for the premium. I did not sign up but received a phone call to sell me on a 'custom' program for whatever credit I had on my cards. My research led me to BP and also a local Investors group that is very active. I intend to pursue my education with local connections, ebooks, forums here and the school of hard knocks. I had and educational and motivational experience but chose to get educated elsewhere for a lot less money.
I went to my first FB Seminar 2 years ago, and I found the 3 day seminar very enlighteniing and the speaker was great and informative. Well worth low payment (under $200). However, the upsell to the Mastery went full force and they know how to market and close people, including me!! I to am now a Mastery Student for life for the low low price of $20K (pun intended). If anything, this program lit a fire under my butt to get my first flip done to get my investment back, which I did pronto before my wife divorced me for puting this on a couple of credit cards as they PUSHED. I think there is alot of valuable information available, but the only coaching I got was them telling me to go watch videos on the website. I even picked coaches that were in Phoenix, and they had no interest in meeting me in person or making themselves available except for the 30 minute phone calls, which were limited in number. For the price I paid, I too expected some hand holding through a couple of deals as a newbie. Honestly, I was VERY overwhelmed with the program as they mainly teach broad concepts and systems. Whereas, newbies need a step by step implementation plan they can follow and more hand holding. I wish I had come across Bigger Pockets first, I would have another $20K to do deals with as an investor. I believe the program has alot of great information that I can now access anytime, but I don't feel it is was worth the price paid. Fortunately, I have the risk tollerance and self motivation to do this business. Unfortunately, I know of ALOT of individuals that joined this program two years ago and NEVER DID A DEAL!! A very high price to pay for never getting over the FEAR to pull the trigger. I guarantee you, nobody at Fortune Builders is going to follow up with these "students" to see how they are doing as I have never heard from any of them since they got paid two years ago. As usual, they over promise and under deliver like most. Honestly, I have not logged into their website in over a year as I have learned more through direct interaction with more experienced investors in my area, including finding hard money lenders.
Yes, this is one of my first posts, but I have been reading and following for some time and want people to be fully informed.
Best advise, use the FREE information on BP and join and get involved in your local REIA. I have learned more from other investors and by DOING than any seminar. Save the $20k for your first deal, or if you have to, put the $20K on a credit card to close your first deal.
WOW! I too attended a FB three day seminar just a little over one month ago. It was very motivating, but at the same time, they were very pushy... as stated earlier. I like most was not able to pay for their very pricey mastery program. However, being so motivated to learn, I decided to do the research on my own, which thankfully, has led me to BP. Although I am still in the process of learning, I have found the forums to be full of so much information and people that are very open to helping and give advice... FOR FREE!!! Bigger Pockets is such a great place to learn!
You are one of the lucky ones Samantha. Josh and Brandon have done a truly wonderful thing by creating this website. The investors that truly want to give back will do it right here for free. It always bothers me the true greed factor of the "Gurus". Most of them have more money than they could spend in a lifetime, but they continue to hit the newbies for a large chunk of their life savings or have them run up credit card debt. This is money they need to get going as there really is no real estate investing I am aware of that does not require at least minimal capital for start up and marketing. Good luck and keep learning.
@Ed Caldwell Thanks for the Good Luck Wishes. I am very dedicated to learning and I feel that just in one month, my dedication and excited has brought me to build a lot of confidence. In my opinion, I have been networking and learning from people who are the best in the business... and that are not on here for the money, but to work together as a team! That is priceless and very awesome!
I attend a FB 3 day event about a month ago. Once they gave out the numbers for purchasing their program I was surprised so many returned the next day. The way I looked at it was that I spent $197 and I was going to get as much info from them as I possibly could. I took about half a notebook of notes and read over them a lot. From their seminar I learned that a system in place is what makes it happen. Learning from someone who knows what they are doing. I am also a new realtor and my current office does not have a system in place so I know the frustration of becoming a new realtor too. I just continue to read and gather as much info as I can for free. I'm here to learn!
@Account Closed Don't feel to hurt, he didn't call you back because you were to wise to his ******** and he figured out quickly you were not going to be an easy scam victim.
Fortune Builders are great for one thing and one thing only: Their $200 seminar brings a ton of new members to Biggerpockets!!!
@Account Closed Don't feel to hurt, he didn't call you back because you were to wise to his ******** and he figured out quickly you were not going to be an easy scam victim.
Fortune Builders are great for one thing and one thing only: Their $200 seminar brings a ton of new members to Biggerpockets!!!
You're right about FB driving folks to BP. I just did a google search on Fortune Builders and up pops a link to Bigger Pockets ... at least the FB crowd does get to the right place (BP) in the end.
I have never posted online before, but feel strongly about doing so now. I'm currently sitting in the 3 day seminar in Raleigh, NC. I paid $197 for three days of real estate "investment education." I came to the meeting extremely skeptical about what I would learn vs. what I would be sold. My oh my, did I underestimate the selling. I was inspired to post by the above entry discussing the reality of 60 minutes of information embedded inside the better part of three days touting their "mastery" system. The education I'm getting is a decent (not great) overview of REI. The rest is an embarrassing self-promotion charade trying to sell you the next step. Trying to convince this room that you have to be "selected" into the mastery is an assault on my senses. To his credit, the speaker is working hard for the money. I've been in sales my entire adult life, but I've never seen a three day sales job. All I keep thinking is that this entire charade is a real estate numbers game where you keep working the rooms until the suckers rise to the top. I can only hope that the mastery program helps some of these folks, because I'm confident that most will be taken to the cleaners and left dangling in the wind.
I've met people from the Fortune Builders program. The biggest difference between me and them? I have properties, they don't. Okay, that was a little bit harsh.
I can tell they teach a lot of good practical knowledge, however the biggest pitfall i see is its a cookie cutter program teaching you how to find houses to buy and flip or rent out. The program would prob work in 90% of the areas out there, however when it comes to living in a major metropolitan area where the cost of the land is way over inflated anywhere like in the DC area, you have thousands of people trying to hunt of these deals that just simply don't exist. Now if you were to try the same method just 30 min north of DC in Baltimore, that would be a different story. There are neighborhoods that need redevelopment and have the potential for improvement and profit for the investors.
I just attended the 3-day seminar in Atlanta....or in reality a day and a half (I left mid-day Sat). In the original info mtg, the guy told us we would learn the steps to flipping, etc in the 3 day seminar and we would teach us their system and have the tools we needed to get started. When info mtg was over, I signed/paid for the upcoming seminar for $197 and was given a booklet and some other papers. He guy also told us we would learn how to access their cash buyer/investor lists.
Prior to the 3-day seminar, I watched 2 online videos we were given access to. Oh, the cash buyer/investor lists mentioned....yeh, those were over $2,000. BTW, these lists were never mentioned in day and a half I spent at the seminar.
Seminar (1st day). 99% of time was spent on motivational stuff, hype a bunch of stories about Jeremy Black's (the presenter) family. Oh, in the 10 hrs on Friday, he did actually spend 40 min covering actual info pertaining to real estate. Remaining time was total waste...
When I grabbed the booklet on Sat morning, the one I got when I pd for the seminar, I realized the 40 min of time day before and info he covered was literally in the book. I gave Jeremy a chance on Sat to see if anything changed. Nope. ALL hype, telling us interviews for Mastery would begin and there was only a few slots open so everyone would not get in. Again, story after story on his family, and the 10 min or so that he actually covered info on real estate....he was just covering the exact info from the booklet. It was at this point I decided I didn't need to waste 6 more hrs that day or the 10 hrs on Sunday, for him to info from the booklet; I can read for myself.
To be fair, he did share 2 tips that were not in the booklet but having to waste 14 hrs, meals and almost 4hrs of total travel time....was NOT worth it. Disclosure: I have never done anything w/real estate but I honestly didn't learn anything.
Oh, Jeremy DID 'show' us some of the forms, etc that they use in their system but you had to pay the $25,000+ for the Mastery program to actually access it. This is NOT what we were told in the original info mtg.
The exact info that is in their booklet can be easily found on the internet. Save your time and money ad go there. At least you won't have to sit thru wasted hrs of overwhelming hype and upselling.
SEVERE PREDATORY TACTICS USED....
I attended the wholesaling marketing bootcamp taught by Than Merril back in June of 2014. It was awesome. Very detailed. Very intense. I took tons and tons of notes, very useful information. Just packed. Than is a great presenter and he really knows his stuff.
Just a note that the Bootcamp is different from the 3 day seminar. The 3 day seminar provides some information but I think is mostly to get people to enter the program. The bootcamp (Or they are now called Summits) is very intense with solid information and materials. And as a Fortunebuilder's Mastery Student I can take it as often as I want. The teaching is of the highest quality.
Virginia, with all due respect, your comments are filled with opinions described in generalized adjectives, nothing more. I have been around the block a few times and this company is involved in some very unscrupulous means to pull in students. As you admitted, the 3 day seminar is nothing more than an attempt to up sell the audience to the high priced bootcamp/Summit. No matter how good the info is at that high priced event, the means in which they attract the audience lacks moral fiber (and that is putting it lightly).
Than is a guru and preys on those looking for the easy riches. The truth is, there are no easy riches in RE, but companies like FB would never tell you that, they would lose too many suckers that way.
LITERALLY just came home an hour ago from the Fortunebuilder 2-hour free seminar. They gave very little information - mostly sales hype. I used to write sales letters for a media company and they do a lot of the scare tactics and dream painting a sales writer is told to write.
The information was pretty minimal. Of course, they want you to pay the $197 for their three-day seminar.
I've read good and bad reviews on the seminar but as a few of you have written - my research brought me here to this website. Hoping I can learn everything here and then some!
I bet there were roughly 100 people in the seminar and at least half signed up (walking around proudly with their yellow bag full of stuff).
The guy who did the speech was likable and a good speaker but there were too many red flags (if the guy has multiple rental properties and is set then why is he giving presentations and traveling all over away from his family?). I sat there for two hours wanting some information and ended up with little in notes.
I tend to buy programs from people who saturate me with free information as I then think 'Wow - if they give me this for free just think of how good their paid program is.' As mentioned, not the case here. It was hype, scare tactics and dreaming.
No clue if the 3-day program is good or not but I would rather read books from the library, surf the web and learn from mentors.
I attended the 3 day seminar in March this year and wasn't "accepted" to the mastery program, mainly because I didn't have $30,000. They called me a few days later offering me a wholesaling program for $2,000 in order to be able to get a couple wholesale deals under my belt so I can be able to afford the mastery course. Unfortunately I invested in the the $2,000 wholesale program and although the information is good, its information I could have found on BP, And Instead used the money to start my business off with and aggressive marketing plan.
Hi Mingh. Sorry you didn't have the same experience I did. I think ALOT of it has to do with who was the speaker. As a matter of fact, I have been in touch with FB several times about following this particular speaker again. My experience was very enlightening and I know a bit about the guys behind F.B. and I think that they are pretty smart and successful guys. Yes, they "hock" there side lines etc, but I do intend to have them be my "coaches". I guess they basically put a fire under me that was already smoldering in real estate. I wish you great success what ever path you follow.
Hi Jo Anna, I am interested as to what speaker you had? I just recently attended a Fortune Builders three day workshop and I feel like it was well worth the money I spent. Me being a beginning real estate investor, I feel the team at fortune builders gave me quality financial education that I can implement in my business.
I spent hours researching Than Merrills Fortune Builders firm, taken the first free seminar, signed up for the $197 3 day event with my sons and wife (yes they said all for $197), and have read extensive comments on ur site regarding pros and cons. At this point I am convinced that I can learn a couple hundred dollars worth at the 3 day, but the next step of $39,000 is over charging for information available on the Internet and eBay. Someone on ur site wrote that one can learn all that info from a $100-$200 course available on eBay. Well, I still don't want to be scammed, so what course "on eBay"(or anywhere else) provides equivalent information? A smart move might be to order and preview the "equivalent" course prior to taking the 3 day course in order to compare apples to apples, know what I mean? My family and I will thoroughly appreciate any honest help and advice you can share. Thanks in advance.
Hi Mike,
Fortune Builders has some good education, but it is not worth the Mastery price. Take it from someone who bought in. I was expecting some great coaching for that price, but unfortunately it sorely lacking and totally not worth the price. The three days had some good information and direction, but half the time was spent up selling you on the Mastery Program. There is plenty of good information here no BP and many experienced investors to ask questions. I believe you should always be educating yourself, but there are cheaper and more efficient ways to do it. Depending on what you want to learn to do, there are many references to great books throughout this website and in the show notes to the podcasts. If you need a mentor, network at your local REIA and see if you can learn from someone doing it in your area.
Best of luck!
To each their own but I think Fortune Builders is an amazing network of successful investors and PMLs. Many people don't succeed after joining Mastery for the same reason they didn't succeed before it...a lack of action. Just because you shell out money to join an education company doesn't mean a truckload of money will be delivered to you. You have to put effort into growing your business and doing deals. Fortune Builders shows you who to build and implement proven systems that work. Their mentoring program is amazing, the live events are inspiring and informative. From my own experience of joining you go to the free 3 hour event. Some information is given and the 3 day event is offered for $299. Attending the 3 day event gives you a lot of information and the opportunity to join the Mastery program. Joining Mastery is a significant investment in yourself and it's not for everyone. That being said I ran into an old friend at the 3 day event. I joined Mastery, they have been using online resources only to figure out how to build and run their business. Anyone want to guess who's business is light years ahead of the other? If you want to invest your time into researching how to do something that's been done 1000s of times before instead of investing in your education and systems that are proven then that's your choice. To me, time is precious and it's the only thing that none of us ever get more of, why waste it figuring out the small stuff when you can spend it doing deals?
Take note that there is a big difference between buying Than's books and binders on Amazon and doing it for a few grand (someone here said $2500 for the written materials but I've never looked it up) vs joining the Mastery program and the impossibly long list of benefits and resources that it provides. I joined Mastery back in March of 2015, was able to hit the ground running immediately and start doing deals. I ran into problems as many new investors do and had a coach/mentor there to help at every step. I spent a significant amount of money joining Mastery and I consider it the best money I've ever spent. There are no mandatory recurring fees for anything. All but one of the live events are free to attend although you are responsible for transportation and accommodations (educational tax write off!). The one event that costs extra was $299 this year (insignificant for the amount of information and networking opportunities available there).
I can't tell you what you'll get out of Mastery (or any other program for that matter) because most of the time you reap what you sow. Money will not start raining from the sky but if you're looking for proven systems that will help you build your business Fortune Builders is second to none.
***All of this is based on my personal experience and my own opinions since joining Fortune Builders Mastery. I am not affiliated with the company in any capacity beyond being a student and they offer no incentive for me to refer anyone to them. I only write this so that some people may see past the negative views on this thread and have the opportunity to experience the same life changing opportunity that I have. Your mileage may vary.***
I attended the 3 day seminar for Fortune Builders in Westchester County, NY last week. Although I did not sign up for the Mastery program, I really see the value of the education, systems, and coaching they offer. I have been following BiggerPockets for almost a year now, and have purchased and read a few of the books already. I have learned a few things through it but I still think is just the tip of the iceberg. I don't know much about real estate investing, but I learned enough to validate that what was covered during the 3 day seminar, took me quite a few months on my own to learn.
As a quick analogy, I ran my own contracting business for about 10 years in the past, and had to figure a lot of things out on my own, most of the time I learned the hard way, wasting time and losing money. Fast forward a few years, and I am now working for a franchise that is in the same line of work I was with my business, and they have all the education, systems, and coaching that I did not have (which eventually led me to go out of business). This particular franchise also happens to be one of the top five performers out of their country wide system because the the franchisees are hell bent on implementing their systems and take coaching seriously not only for their employees but also receiving coaching themselves. Today I witness first hand the value of having systems in place and most importantly, having the discipline and drive to implement them consistently. I do believe that Fortune Builders offers something valuable, and will help you avoid a lot of mistakes that comes with the learning curve. Down the line if I can avoid one or two $30K mistakes that I would have made by learning on my own, that initial investment will have paid for itself.
I am absolutely not discounting that some people can succeed on their own through books and networking, but most people do need help. Would anyone here be bold enough to represent a family member in court on fraud accusations without a law degree that costs thousands and thousands of dollars, just by reading books and networking with other lawyers? You could, but I don't think that would be a great idea.
I came here looking for reviews too, but to the folks trashing the FB program without signing up and implementing the program, your reviews are like reviewing a blender you never bought because it was too expensive. How would you know? I would much rather hear from investors that signed up, went through their program, implemented their systems and still failed in business. I honestly have not seen any of those folks post a review here or anywhere I've searched.
To Marion Edwards on the Fortune Builders events. Yes, I first went to the free seminar, then paid to go to the 3 day seminar. It was about 90 % commercial to sign up for their $35,000 seminar and only about 10% usable content. They promised a $1 million line of credit to everyone who completed the 3 day course only to find out that the line of credit was for a deal that was closing the same day or within 2 days. Not exactly what I was led to believe. They are very high pressure and taught many things that are illegal in my state.