TimWieneke
Real Estate Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2008 · 1k+ posts · 218 votes
There's one thing JT does that I like. You give him the name of a town in an area where he's said he invests and he will give you an address of a deal he's done. You can look it up and verify it. That lends serious credibility.
Create a list of addresses that people can look up and verify you've done. That will make a difference.
Well OK Tim, then spill it? You are all over this site saying you won't give away where you invest, but charge people money to know. So ok there Mr. Guru, give me the addresses. Or Give them to ********** (James) as he has asked for them as well in your guy's late night rantings found here:
http://forums.biggerpockets.com/viewtopic.php?t=18170&highlight=
Ok,
This is my last post on this. I will say all here and have nothing further when this is done. If it can't be figured out by the end of this post that I'm not just going to give away all my information....I can't help you.
1. I have never called myself a Guru. For me I decided that to be a Guru I would need a 20 to 30 year track record in real estate and have completed making the majority of my income in real estate transactions and have shifted to making the majority of my income in training. 90% of my income still comes from real estate transactions, 10% from training and I am not ready to make that shift. I teach 1 course on one specific subject of property acquisition. That's it. I have been a teacher since I was 23. I got my degree in teaching and regardless of what I do, I will always teach as it is a passion of mine. Will I teach for free? Of course not.
2. We are in the Information Age. There is no value to real estate in and of itself. The value in any piece of real estate is the value of the INFORMATION attached to that real estate. Land or a structure with the improper application of information is a liability. The applicaiton of information applied to that house turns it into an asset. There is VALUE to the proper information on real estate. Information gained through investment of money and/or time is valuable I have seen the value of the information I have gained and thus is the reason it is proprietary. Also, this information is time sensitive to current economic conditions. I've got about 2-5 years of prime use on this information and have no intention of squandering it.
3. Here is the last and final reason why I do not disclose the information on where I am buying property. It is the same reason Native Americans didn't tell white European settlers the best buffalo hunting spots. I have seen 4 markets get inundated by uninformed, undisciplined buyers which led to unnatural price jacking of the best real estate there. They are Buffalo, NY; Hammond, IN; Memphis, TN; and Springfield, MO - the last is where I learned REI. These markets were areas with a disproportionately high number of tenants leading to naturally low prices in real estate. For 15 years as I grew up, my dad told me to never talk about Springfield, MO as he was buying property there. 5 years ago I learned why, as out of state investors, high on REI crack, came in and bought in a completely uninformed and undisciplined manner. Their buying jacked prices up beyond a level of sustainability and property was no longer accessible at a price you could cashflow comfortably at. I was going to buy in Springfield but could no longer find the cashflow I wanted and believed some mentor hype that I could find this kind of cashflow in Chicago. This is not the case. Thus began my 3 year search for a market similar to what Springfield WAS. Within that time I found Buffalo, NY; Hammond, IN; and Memphis, TN. I found Buffalo through ebay auctions some years ago and was finding price per units on occupied properties to be about $5,000.00. I was excited and told everyone. Within 2 years the undisciplined buyers came in. Again I got excited about all my findings about northwest Indiana and Memphis, Tennesse and made the same mistake 2 more times. Northwest Indiana was around 2004 when you could still find nice houses with minimal repairs for 5 to 10 grand all day long. I found Memphis in September of 2005 when Katrina hit Louisiana and I heard a news story that people were being redistributed from that area to Memphis, TN. Immediately my investor thinking realized that the government was dramatically increasing a population of non-mobile renters into a town that had been experiencing very little property appreciation and no recognition from the investment community at large. I drove there, found that property within the city was taxed ridiculously but that property right outside the city limits was beautiful, very cheap and had reasonable taxes and excellent returns on cashflow. I was in the midst of my divorce at that time and put together a plan to begin purchasing there once the legal stuff was finished and in the interim again...told everyone about it. You'd think I would have learned by then.... :roll:
After all this, I got pissed at myself and decided to find the best cashflowing market I could imagine and as close as possible to Chicago, where I lived. During this time I also studied why renters stay in certain areas. I had a little bit of a background in psychology and sociology and actually found my answer there rather than economics. After all, if renters made their decisions on economics....they wouldn't be renters. I found that exceptionally cashflowing areas had specific sociological and psychological "anchors" to them that would compel people to stay there regardless of where the economy was at. I identified these anchors and began noting them, then researching the local communities around them. As a result of my study I located a market I could get to faster than my job commute where I could buy property outright for cheaper than a downpayment in Chicago with merely cosmetic repairs and a sustainable population of tenants with anchors that would NEVER go away. For 7 months I told NO ONE of this market outside of Matt Gil, Joe Bianchi, Manz Ballasteros and my dad. These were people I could trust with this information.
In October of last year I had a discussion with one of my mentors who advised me that no matter what business you are in - that if you believe in something you have an obligation to sell it. I then decided to sell my information and targeted people like myself - disgruntled investors who wanted maximum cashflow percentages. I only sell to experienced investors and/or business owners and my average student has either completed 5 deals or been a business owner for 5 years. I don't like to sell this to total newbies because they tend not to be burned by the charlatans yet and don't see the value to it. Also, newbies tend to get excited and excitement leads to loose lips and I don't need a bunch of hack birddog/wholesalers with a website and a vistaprint business card coming in here and screwing up a good thing. Make no mistake. I realize that every time I sell a course I am creating a new competitor. I am very picky with who I teach. This is my business. I'm an investor who is protecting the investment of my information. I make money off it and will not give it away for free. If you don't like it - go find your own market.
How did this get to be it's own topic? Did I hit a wrong button ?
I made it its own topic because it became a distraction from the other topic that it was posted in.
Hmm. I guess it is a nice reply, but doesn't answer the question. Tim clearly stated he liked that a person was willing to give addresses. Even Primo_Coach on here says that you should get examples and addressess of possible mentors and their deals, but again Tim is not willing to release that.
Just curious as to the double answer. You respect people that reveal the addresses, but you won't do it yourself. Does that mean you do not respect yourself?
Why the double standard is all I am asking?
Here I sit in my car in front of yet another property I have purchased in NW Indiana. Contractors are here giving me their bids for the rehab work that needs to be done as I await a response on my offers on 2 other properties within 2 blocks of here. I am not ashamed to mention that these are in Gary. I am not afraid of competition because, yes Hacks will come into a market, but over time truth reveals itself about people. A so called "super millionaire" investor will be called out by numerous lawsuits and foreclosures. The market will come back and when I treat people the right way and with respect, they value that over the long term. Which is why I am not concerned. I have my network in place, my businesss systems rolling and it doesn't matter who is in the area, they will screw up and normally make more deals for me in the end.
And yes, all of these homes are REO's so they are listed for anyone to see. I just have the knowledge to see them differently. That is what sets me apart. I also don't charge $3k to go see the area.
Just again, the original question in my mind has yet to be answered, rather just excuses given. I think we should make a poll question out of this. How many people on here feel justified in paying over 3K to be driven to an area where you can see properties that are listed on the MLS and probably carried through to realtor.com?
No personal attacks here, just want to keep things along the lines of what the BP community is all about; openly helping one another to achieve better and attain a higher level of success.
Perhaps I didn't make this clear so I will restate it. I respect self proclaimed "Gurus" that can give me addresses. I have not self proclaimed that title. Don't worry - if I ever go "Guru" I will gladly show you what I have been up to the past 20 years. As a patent holder, I know you know the value of proprietary information.
"Here I sit in my car in front of yet another property I have purchased in NW Indiana.....I am not ashamed to mention that these are in Gary."
I have to mention this because Gary is another prime example, being one city north of Hammond that I previously mentioned. 5 years ago, great cashflowing property could be had for a song there. It's not the case anymore and to get into cheap property you need rehab crews to do some serious rehabs.
Now to a completely different topic - you're sitting in your car on you computer in Gary, Indiana? I really hope you are in a secure location. I used to bird dog in Gary and all our disagreements aside, Gary is not a place to take lightly and a laptop is a very tempting target. Don't put your personal safety at risk for money no matter how great a Gary deal looks. It's just not worth it.
Tim
Hi James,
I have no problem answering most of your questions. They are only fair. Some I won't answer as is my right. If you don't mind, I will chop up your post into quotes and answer individually.
"O.K. your not a "Guru" but a guy who has 20 years REI experience,"
No - I didn't say 20 years. I said "when" I get to 20 years.
"who has countless cash flow investments properties in several states as you state in many threads."
Which threads? They are "countless" in that I haven't disclosed all of my financials and really have no intention to. I got a bad taste of that with my divorce and don't go there.
"And also have had several jobs in the last 3 years to include, labor head hunter, insurance adjuster etc."
It was hiring manager and that was about 4 years ago but yes I had a varied job history. I learned a lot from working in various fields in successful companies.
"You have said that your a teacher, a mentor, a coach and also put on REI seminars to include speakers such as Marshal for 100 a pop."
Yes. My first job out of college was a temp job working for Comdex in Las Vegas and ever since then I wanted to try doing a seminar tradeshow. For a first try, it was a nice conference despite someone we both know who threatened (and attempted) legal action to stop it. I'm going to do it again this year but it will be an entirely different format.
"I had read some advertising of yours that you do bus trips with investors and show them these cheap cash flow properties for around 3000 a pop, so clearly you are an expert investor and"
I'm flattered but I am an expert only in specific types of things. I am not a property management expert. My dad is, as anyone who has heard him speak can attest to. What I am an expert at is finding very good cashflow markets in flyover country before they become popular in the REI community. This is one skill amongst many, though it is a skill with a high dollar value to it.
"clearly you benefit from being an active member on this site."
It's a great site. I've met great people here and I certainly hope the 400+ posts of free information I have given have helped others as well. Not everything I know is free though and I have yet to have a student from BP. No complaints at all on that though - that's not why I'm here.
"A) Why now web site with clearly spelled out information about yourself, your experience, your services etc."
I have been selling through referrals and personal recommendations. It hasn't been necessary. I have yet to sell to one person that didn't already know me or do business with me or a close contact of theirs. I've had a few people suggest making some web sites or squeeze pages about it but I just don't know yet if I want to do that. I could be wrong but I think you were the first person on BP I even told about it back in that private message discussion we had a few months ago when you were pitching your packaged cashflow deals to me. I can appreciate what you do as a business but it just didn't apply to me. I certainly hope I didn't offend you with my refusal.
"B) Why the jobs if the RE business has so successful over the years? How long have you been a full time investor?"
I was raised with two competing lines of thought - a dad who was an entrepreneur and a mom who was a government employee. I listened to one mindset and had an employee mindset with entrepreneur wishes for a long time. It took my divorce and the resulting financial ruin from it to discover that the employee mindset was not serving me. I tried full time first a couple years ago on the training I received at a Chicago area real estate club and it failed miserably. Thus began my disdain for the real estate hype that began circling these clubs. I went back to work (this was the adjusting job) and rebuilt my strategy and did some serious research into what made a cashflow market "tick". I don't know that you'd call it full time investing only as I do the rehab company (much like you still do construction) as well and do other cash making ventures. Landlording doesn't make cash at the beginning. It actually sucks up cash for a long time and you need a job or a business or something. I've been landlording for 5 years now, lost it all in the divorce 2 years into it, went back to work for a year to exist and am now back in a position of financially independant again and if I cared about net worth (I don't - equity net worth is easy and is not real money, I care about cash flow), I'm about 600% higher than I was pre-divorce and my pre-divorce was $60,000. Restarting post-divorce with 480 credit, my cash completely wiped out, and having a job that paid $40,000 a year - I didn't do too bad for myself. I do love my job history though: Property Manager for Aaron Property Management, Reservations coordinator for Key 3 Media Events, Admin for Liberty Mutual Insurance Actuarial Department, Construction Estimator for The Wieneke Corporation, Hiring Manager for Trinity Construction Staffing, Field Property Claims Adjuster for Farmers Insurance. Each job I've had has taught me crucial information that has only helped me in my real estate investing.
"C) Exactly what do you provide to your students and what is the cost? A one time fee? Hourly rate?"
Think of it like a guided hunt. This is a class for people who want to buy cashflowing property and I take them to it. It's very simple. For a one time fee of $3,500.00 I will sit you down and sign an NDA about anything we see or discuss that day. I will drive you to the market. I will connect you with the key people you need to know. I will show you why I like this market. We then walk through about 10-20 properties that are available depending on how tired you get. We'll have a nice lunch and a great dinner and we'll discuss your strategies for getting rid of all your Chicago property. As I said, I only like to deal with experienced investors because if you've ever owned cashflowing property - you get how this works.
"D) As far as these bus trips. What is the cost. How many hours are we talking? What exactly do you provide?"
I don't remember offering a bus trip. The only training I offer is the trip described above and it's private 1 on 1. I don't need a bus full of liability.
"E) Once you have a student, do you show them any of your own investment properties or proforma's?"
Sure, if they care. None have asked yet.
"F) Are you still putting on seminars with speakers and is there a calender of up coming events?"
Well I'll do the super conference again in another format. I was just asked today to consider creating an event for another investor. I'll probably do it. He's a good guy. As far as a calendar, yes. A couple years ago, I was in a bar after a networking meeting and heard people complaining that there was no centralized place to find out all the real estate events that were going on. Matt happened to be there. A light went on in my head and I pulled him aside and said, "Matt, you're a computer guy. Imagine an online calendar that centralized the real estate events in Chicago". Thus began reievents.com.
"G) How many properties do you own in how many states?"
Again - see my earlier note on disclosure. This is not gonna happen.
"H) How many students do you currently mentor?"
6 and each one is a person I previously knew or worked with. With the exception of Mark. He and I were acquaintances but didn't talk much. I let him talk to some other people.
"I have experienced a great deal of secrecy in our communication and find that a bit different than what I am used to."
And that ain't gonna change. And btw, yes I'll go fishing with you any day, but no - you can't take my class. :lol: It's nothing personal. It's business. James you're a good guy but the fact is your business is based in marketing deals to the REI community at large that you've packaged and added your overhead and profit to. Mine is based in going into a market covert before the flippers do much like Uncle Walt buying "worthless" swamp land in Florida. It's two different busiensses.
"I think these are are very valid questions for any potential BP member, or potential student to ask....The REI guys in my area, who are asking folks for compensation for mentoring etc. are pretty much an open book. I enjoy your posts and appreciate your contributions, so I am hoping we can get some honest clarity here for the sake of the members who would potentially be paying you thousands of dollars for your experience and legitimate RE investing success."
Again - I don't remember asking for students here. I'm not the one that keeps bringing up my one little class I teach. Frankly I don't like discussion forums for marketing for high dollar products. I recommend people go with personal referrals, not discussion forum marketing. How's that for marketing? I'll publicly say it now to everyone here - DON'T even think about my program based on what you read in a discussion forum. No matter how smart, articulate or charming I sound, don't do it. Don't pay me a dime. Don't be THAT person who spends too freely and is not a hard nosed, analytical business person. Do your own research. Find out who I've worked with, talk to them and make your own decision. Who knows, in the process you may even find your own market and just move forward with it which I would applaud.
Tim
Ok, time to inteject here. I am new to BP and have spent considerable time on other forums over the years. I have dropped a number of REIA events and message boards in favor of business activities.... so don't be surprised if I don't answer replies.
That said, I have done the training and have a few things to say.
1) There is a HUGE difference between vetting a guru where seeing the deals they have done and vetting someone's ability to target a MARKET. The former teaches a TECHNIQUE. The latter is bringing people into a MARKET and showing how they analyze the market and look at the properties. While the former MAY work their techniques anywhere, the same cannot be said for the latter and giving the addresses in those markets would give away said market so the comparison is flawed.
2) Tim signed Non Disclosures with the investors he works with. I know since I was first. There has been comment to secrecy. You could look at it negatively if you like but keep in mind those Non Disclosures work both ways. I keep quiet about where we are doing these deals, how we do them, why the market works, etc because in signing that document, I gave my word. Tim is also keeping his word to the folks that he has taught so please consider what it says about you if you ever ask someone to break THEIR word.
3) Understand the value of information. I have been asked if the price paid was worth it. I respond with an enthusiastic HELL YES. We got in the market and kicked butt creating 6 figures in equity so far this year and now are screening tenants to turn to the cashflow phase.
This is a completely voluntary and UNsolicited opinion based on experience. You can take it for what you wish but remember that since what Tim has offered is tied to analyzing a market... asking for information that would identify that market is, in essence, asking for something for nothing. This is a form of an entitlement mentality and until you get in the game.... you aren't entitled. :wink:
Original member of the Windy City Round Table (we called it WCRT for short back in the day)
FORMER member of WCRT
Current member of the Windy City Round Table and I'm grateful that my business systems include project managers and I don't have to do wait for contractors in favor of building more systems.
"So, up to 100,000 in equity this year, as in the last 5 months? And your holding these cash flow cows and just now screening tenants? In this secret market that is so coveted?"
You're making assumptions of $100,000. He only said 6 figures. I won't go into Dan's financials without his permission but you can't make assumptions like that.
"I want to take a second and clarify that Tim was not soliciting investors here on the site. This whole conversation came about in perhaps an odd manner. He constantly talks about his investments and secrets, but he never asked directly for new clients. I think some folks just wanted some clarification."
The only two people that keep asking are you and Ryan. If folks want clarification my private cellphone is on my profile for crying out loud. The reason I keep talking about this is I AM TIRED OF THE BULLSH!$ that is being fed to new investors about what constitutes a cashflowing property. I have been to too many Learning Annex's, REIAs and have seen too many realtor and wholesaler booths with BULLSH!$ "cashflowing property". I keep putting my numbers out there so people WAKE UP and realize that they don't have to keep paying so friggin' much for property. Why I don't give away all my secrets is plain as day - I've signed NDAs.
"Do people not have computers in Chicago? You said you only mentored folks who have done at lease 5 deals or had 5 years experience, so what gives? Why would these guys need you to show them where good cash flow area's are or what a good deal is."
I don't know. I haven't asked them.
"How would any investor know, or you know for that matter what would become of your secret chosen market in 6 months, a year, 23 years, five years etc."
It's investing James. I don't predict the future. However, when you're buying at 20-30% FMV you're in a strong position.
"You also mentioned that a few years back you had nothing and a 450 fico, so I am wondering about this whole scenario here. Not even Wall Street or government economics doctorates have a real handle on the demographic housing markets at this time."
I don't operate in Wall Street or with Econ PhDs. In fact I think economists make some of the worst investors. They spend so much time reporting data that they forget about gut instincts. Did you start your construction company because an economist sent you a report? Here's the thing - economics have to be there but they are secondary to sociological conditions when I analyze a cashflowing market. Tenants don't make their decisions based on economics or they wouldn't be tenants.
Tim
I just want to chime in on one point. I have never personally attacked anyone on here. When my opinion was asked for, I give it. I simply asked Tim to clarify a point. He says he likes it when people provide addresses to their investments to lend credibility, but because of NDA's he can't give us that.
Further, in response to the questions that James asked in this thread, I guess Tim can't tell us how many deals he has done, or even what state's they are located in.
Tim, just curious again, why the need to keep that secret?
Also, are you telling me that it was only because of you that people starting going after the Buffalo market? or Hammond, IN market? Only you? You don't think that since you found Buffalo on Ebay, that maybe, just maybe, others could have as well?
I know that I have been doing Hard Money Loans in Gary, Hammond, Lake Station, and East Chicago all in Indiana for about 7 years now. So I guess it hasn't been a secret for at least 7 years to invest in NW Indiana.
Thanks for your concern, but I guess it just shows the knowledge of Gary that you have. Yes areas of GARY are scary, but Miller Beach is not, Gleason area is not. I would rather be there then in areas of Uptown on the North Side of Chicago.
You put it out there that people look better and more credible when they give addresses, but you are overly secretive about it, and I just wanted to know why they should, but you don't have to.
Finally, if a person has to do at least 5 deals for you to accept them as a "student", do you have to sign a NDA for them before they tell you the 5 deals they have done?
Look, yes, there is no secret that Tim and I know each other personally. I don't think anyone will be shocked when I say that Tim and I will probably NEVER do a deal together. What Tim is failing to mention is that his "SuperConference" is in partnership with an ex partner of mine that took a court order signed by a judge to have him removed from the company. I had put it in the past, and in no way care about it anymore. Just concerned that there was some confusion as to Tim wanting to be secret but telling others to open up and share their background.
Oh and Tim, I believe in your resume area, you failed to mention you also were a loan officer for a while as well.
Just remember, the WCRT that some people are not welcomed at, but that list is less than 15 people over the years has a motto of "Success by Association" which is founded on the principles of "Learn, Grow and Give Back". So you can see why those that are into Uber-Secrecy would not fit that mold, and there is no big uproar about that. Not all people are meant to get along or fit into certain clubs, niches, etc.
So I want to really focus this thread right back to where it started. Tim regularly posts about his investments. He let it be known that he charges over $3,400 to students to be shown an area where you can buy cheap houses and cashflow. Yet he will not say how many he owns, what state they are in, etc.
Now I will give credit to Tim, whether he admits this or not, a certain club had certain people stating that CASHFLOW is the key to longterm legacy wealth. He did take that and obviously is focusing on that. I think anyone should know there is no "Get Rich quick and EASY" scheme or dream here.
I think that Bigger Pockets is best served if people are presented the facts and then make their own decision. As with anything you find, do your own homework and research, do not take what other's say as the Gospel. I had a really bad accident that left me with some physical ailments, it wasn't until I stopped just accepting the doctor's statements and questioning the treatment, finally locating a new doctor that I got better. I think you can get the analogy.
Very interesting discussion here. Everyone has made some good points. This is exactly what I was talking about in one of my posts regarding education, gurus, boot camps, mentors, seminars, etc.
I've read several of Tim's posts and I think he is knowledgeable in REI, but I am curious about the secrecy aspect. It creates too many questions about your actual background. This thread confirms what I've been saying about taking what you think will work for you (personally) rather than following everything "experienced" REIs tell you. May it be in BP, REIA meetings or other REI sources.
What ever happened to full disclosure? Oh yeah, I forgot an NDA was signed. I've been involved in different start ups (hi-tech) here in the Bay Area and have had to sign NDAs for obvious reasons. I'm just not sure how much secrecy there needs to be in REI? I mean I know where you're coming from in regards to keeping your investment strategy to yourself. Or where you are investing, but you don't have to give us specific areas, why not give us the states where you invest? I mean all RE is local anyway and one city is different from the other even in the same state. So sure I can say I invest in CA, TX, NM, WY, CO or whatever. But I won't say where in particular. Can't you even give us that? Did you sign an NDA with yourself hence you're not able to disclose where you've personally invested?
Just curious...
Since Ryan mentioned he and I know each other already, I'll go ahead and publicly disclose that some years ago I used to purchase Ryan's training in bird dogging and wholesaling. I have since left his training to go out on my own using what my dad and grandfather taught me about real estate. And yes, I occasionally enter into joint venture partnerships with several former members of WCRT, including it's CoFounder and former President and have had excellent experiences partnering with all these people.
I will say no more on this as it is pointless.
EDITED: Ryan asked that I clarify so I will clarify that I joint venture with the Founder of the original Windy City Round Table which predated WCRT for some years, the Co Founder and former President of WCRT, Inc., and the Founder of the new Windy City Round Table. All are one and the same person.
Within the climate of the Chicago area REIAs - a lot more than you would ever think.....
Again - why didn't Uncle Walt publicly talk about why he was buying swamp land in Florida? Same reason I don't tell people in Chicago about the 20 cents on the dollar, great cashflowing properties within a short commute from the city.
BTW - I am pretty sure I have said multiple time I personally have invested in Illinois and Indiana. No secret there.
"Tims business is still a big mystery and will remain a mystery."
Its no mystery to those that do it. In fact it's pretty simple. It simply has secrets and that won't change - well, for a while anyway.
Within the climate of the Chicago area REIAs - a lot more than you would ever think.....
Again - why didn't Uncle Walt publicly talk about why he was buying swamp land in Florida? Same reason I don't tell people in Chicago about the 20 cents on the dollar, great cashflowing properties within a short commute from the city.
Tim,
As I said, I know where you're coming from in regards to keeping things to yourself. I guess what I was saying is you don't need to give specifics. As for the REIA climate in Chicago, I think this applies to most REIAs out there. This is why I don't participate in them. Majority of the people there are newbies or speculators you speak of that once they find out the next "hot spot" they tend to ruin it for the real investors.
This is why I go to my local Rotary club to network and learn from true investors may it be in REI or another industry. In the end REI is pretty much any other business. It's got income and expenses, supply and demand, cashflow. I actually use more principles from successful people outside of REI to run my REI business. So far it's worked for me.
I appreciate your contributions here and have picked up a few things here and there from you. As long as I'm learning...it's all good!
This is why I go to my local Rotary club to network and learn from true investors may it be in REI or another industry. In the end REI is pretty much any other business. It's got income and expenses, supply and demand, cashflow. I actually use more principles from successful people outside of REI to run my REI business. So far it's worked for me.
SROC,
Thank you very much! This is the best advice I think I've heard in weeks. I didn't even think of this. I have said to people that a part of my motivation for creating the class was to create a network of people I could talk to about this market on a regular basis without worrying about what you call the "newbies and speculators".
I'm a social person and I miss the social aspect of hanging out in the Chicago area REIAs but I simply could no longer sacrifice my business for a social group. What you said makes so much sense though! Again, thank you very much. :D
Tim
P.S. James, I have heard that about CA's support network for entrepreneurs and it is one thing I envy about your part of the country (that and the vineyards). In fact I have a friend that moved there from Chicago specifically for that.
You took the words right out of my mouth.
And we are blessed with enough successful business associates here in the S.F. Bay Area, that's for sure.
Exactly! That's why I'm capitalizing on it! :D
Ok,
I already went and found out that there's a local SCORE chapter...lol. I'll be calling them tomorrow morning.
Tim
This is why I go to my local Rotary club to network and learn from true investors may it be in REI or another industry. In the end REI is pretty much any other business. It's got income and expenses, supply and demand, cashflow. I actually use more principles from successful people outside of REI to run my REI business. So far it's worked for me.
SROC,
Thank you very much! This is the best advice I think I've heard in weeks. I didn't even think of this. I have said to people that a part of my motivation for creating the class was to create a network of people I could talk to about this market on a regular basis without worrying about what you call the "newbies and speculators".
I'm a social person and I miss the social aspect of hanging out in the Chicago area REIAs but I simply could no longer sacrifice my business for a social group. What you said makes so much sense though! Again, thank you very much. :D
Tim
P.S. James, I have heard that about CA's support network for entrepreneurs and it is one thing I envy about your part of the country (that and the vineyards). In fact I have a friend that moved there from Chicago specifically for that.
Hey I'm glad I can help! Yes I think the Bay Area in particluar has a lot of resources. Lot's of truely wealthy/experienced people with different backgrounds. In fact majority of the people I spend my time with are not even in the REI industry. Mostly tech, finance and VC industries. I think I'm also the youngest in our Rotary club in SF. The average age gap between myself and majority of the members is 30 years. I am fortunate to be able to learn from truely successful people with really impressive credentials.
These people have been successful and have made their money already. Last thing on their mind is to steal my idea. I'm in the beginning of my career while they're closer to the end of theirs. They are more than willing to help an up and coming investor become successful too. The best thing is it's for free! Plus you do charity work in the process. Talk about a win-win huh?
Ok - this explains a lot James! For those of us based in flyover country it's all about getting into a market early (like a pre-IPO) and the money is made in holding the property in a particular market once the word gets out (through tactical marketing) and prices jump. Make no mistake, that was engineered masterfully in Buffalo, NY and now it's being marketed to people out of the country. There's a realtor who triend that in Anderson, Indiana as well when Nestle announced a new plant there.
Tim
Tim,
Ok let's be very very clear here. You do not do business with the FOUNDER of the WCRT, that is me. If you want to say the founder of another organization named similar to the WCRT that is TRUE, but facts are indeed facts.
You were never a "student". Several 1 day intro courses were offered to people to guage their motivation levels to do things. You attended these. It isn't as if you didn't continue with the teaching nor get involved in doing deals with me.
Any REI Club is only as good as you make it. If you want to hang out and be social, then by all means, do that. If you want to do real deals, look around and you will see those that are being resourceful to do the deals at the meetings.
Every company has to have entry level employees and at some point they have to move up in the company, so you need more entry level employees. In REI these are Birddogs and property scouts. So attending REI Clubs has different purposes.
I belong and attend other groups for much the same reasons as SROC and James have mentioned here and I fully applaud this. REI is only one tool in my toolbelt. I have many other endeavors that I fully enjoy doing and being involved in.
I would tell you about those, but well I signed NDAs. I found a new secret route around traffic during rush hour here in Chicago last week. Well, actually my GPS took me to it now that the traffic alerts is working again. I can show it to you, but well, you need to sign a NDA> ha . Ok just kidding.
If you want to be secretive, that is fine. Might I just suggest that you do not tell others to share their information then, nor say that a good thing to do is to share your past deals. If you say NW Indiana (Hammond) is completely over fished, then you won't mind sharing if you have properties there, what the addresses are, etc so we can verify, right? We have all seen those commercials for Holiday Inn Express. Where a person starts doing surgery or something, they are asked if they are a doctor, they say NO, but I stayed in a Holiday Inn Express.. well I don't want Bigger Pockets to be the Holiday Inn Express. Just making sure people are actually doctors, not just playing them on TV, so as this post started in a thread about what you want Gurus to do, that is it, BE INVESTORS, or just admit you are Information Marketers.
After all, the fact that you invested there isn't a secret, right? Do you still own property in Buffalo? In Missouri?
I doubt an answer will come to this, so I will refer back to my previous post.
REI Clubs are all unique and each one is different, just like websites. I love to eat Sushi personally, but I know many people that won't let it near their lips. Websites and REI Clubs work the same way, they aren't for everyone. Just not sure why if you don't like Sushi, you should go around bashing it!!
Further, Correct your post, the WCRT has a former president one that was removed by court order, but word founder needs to be modified.
James,
I can answer a few, others I can not because of the court dealings.
First it is WCRT, Inc.
Tim's current business partner was indeed the president, but I was always the DIRECTOR over the top. Despite what others say, the documents were clear to that.
Once the judge removed the individual (who by the way is also banned from his forum for violating its rules), he started a company named Windy City Round Table. This is where the current issue comes in.
The order, as we are challenging, states that the other individual as well as his organization can not have events on specific dates. Why did I allow this? Because I know not all people will enjoy the environment that the WCRT creates and provides to its over 400 members at current. Yet I didn't want their to be direct competition and the judge agreed to that. As the former partner tried to have an event on the same day and that was stopped.
Anything else you would like to know, is not for public consumption as agreed in court. I feel they have made several phony accounts on message boards, etc. attempting to bad mouth not only myself but the WCRT. I never understood the attacks on the group. The group isn't just me, it is made up of amazing members and individuals. Taking it down only would hurt those people, not that it has had any ill effects.
If you would like to see the restraining orders, the police reports for stalking, personal property damage, etc against this individual, please feel free to contact me directly.
There were many people that initially believed some of the false represenations made by other individuals, but once they sat with me and I went over all the documents, they realized that as usual I had proof on my side, not just conjecture. I even welcomed Tim to do that, and he did not, which is his choice.
His choice is also to commend someone and advise others to give property addresses and proof of their resume, but he personally will not.
Enjoy!
By the way, the WCRT is a great group which is why we allow people to attend the first meeting free. What makes it different, well the presenters are not allowed to sell products from the front of the room. SO no informercial pitches, just education and support.
Hope that helps James. oh as to Tim's affiliation, I do not know, nor does it matter to me. As to what happened, many attempts to settle were offered, but none were accepted responsibly, so we were in court several times, well at least I was, the other party regularly did not show. Finally a judge signed the order.
Fun stuff....
See you around the water cooler!
James,
Maybe I worded it wrong. Tim never followed up in doing marketing with me or any deals with me at all. The courses are just educational to teach people how to do the basic steps. The audio recordings are available on the WCRT site and people have had many great things to say about them.
It is up to each person to follow through on their own and apply what is taught. Some have come to me to work with/for me and are still doing so today.
Others, as is always the case, are no longer to be found.
Hope that helps.