tenants complain of paranormal activity

tenants complain of paranormal activity

Lawrenceburg, IN · Member since 2014 · 9 posts · 4 votes

Two days before rent was due my tenant asked if I had been at their house the night before because the garage door was up and the light upstairs was off that they usually leave on.  I had not and suggested that the garage door sensor may have seen something and went back up.  I was over the next day to fix something and she was talking about this again and I said well I can change the locks.  She said well we don't think it's that and continued telling me about hearing foot steps and a candle falling off the back of the toilet into the garbage can etc etc.  And asked if I knew the history of the house.   I told her I knew the house was a foreclosure and the lady who owned it had been a nurse.  She said they were having someone her mom knows come out Sunday to I guess get a reading on the house?  And invited me to come.  I did not. 

Today, rent is now 3 days late, and she texts me wanting to meet up to talk to me about what they found out about the house.

I told her I was not available but she could call or text me.

She responded, " well it's a lot really, if you have any spare time where we can meet up with you asap that would be great.

I have a feeling they are trying to get out of their lease which just started in Dec.  Any advice or suggestions on how to handle this?

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Flipper/Rehabber · Wichita, KS · Member since 2017 · 152 posts · 119 votes
8y
Any “ghosts” that stay longer than 14 days should be added to the lease and required to pay a security deposit imho
See this reply in the discussion

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  • Investor · West Chester , PA · Member since 2011 · 620 posts · 138 votes
    8y

    There are so many things not adding up!

    Is the least started last December 

    Did you ask about rent 

  • Lawrenceburg, IN · Member since 2014 · 9 posts · 4 votes
    8y

    No lease just started Dec 2017.  This will be month 3.

    I have not asked about rent yet.  I send notice with late fee if not received with in 5 days of due date.

  • Rental Property Investor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2016 · 130 posts · 69 votes
    8y

    Hey Amy, 

    I'm not sure what the laws are regarding "ghosts" & recent deaths, but I would suggest letting her know you can stop by for 10-20 minutes cause you have an appointment soon after.  Be kind and after she finishes you can ask for her rent. 

    If she does not have it, take action according to your local laws.

    I would love to hear how this stands legally regarding rent, as I have had no experience in this yet and am always eager to learn more.

    Let me know what you find out!

  • Investor / Syndicator · Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 366 posts · 220 votes
    8y
    Ok now I’m curious. I want to know what she says.
  • John FranczykPro Member
    Wholesaler · Racine, WI · Member since 2015 · 143 posts · 84 votes
    8y

    Verify that there are no disclosure laws in Indiana regarding murders in the house, reports of paranormal activity, etc. Some states and jurisdictions do have those laws. I ran into this last year when I was trying to get a Wisconsin property that the owner had been murdered in. The bank that held the loan was looking to unload it from a portfolio. I tried to argue for a ridiculously low price on the basis that no one wants a murder house. The bank didn't buy my argument, partly because Wisconsin doesn't require disclosure. I noted that all the neighbors knew about it and that a buyer would find out in any case.

    It sounds like your tenant may be trying the same psychology. If Indiana has no disclosure obligations, you shouldn't have any problems. It's always good to know what you may be up against before getting into this kind of mess.

  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    8y

    Pfft, typical slacker landlord, not having a go-to licensed exorcist on your speed dial to immediately remediate hauntings, how dare you!

    In your shoes, I'd start doing whatever the standard "didn't pay rent, time to evict" procedures are in your city/county/state. You can't really negotiate with poltergeists. There's really two possibilities:

    - Tenants are legitimately crazy people. 

    - Tenants can't (or don't want to) make rent, and are stretching to find some BS reason that puts the ball in your court, not theirs.

    I am not an expert in Indiana tenant law, but I'm guessing that paranormal activity is not within the defined responsibilities of a landlord. 

  • Guy with Great Hair · Austin, TX · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    your skepticism is correct.

    How much can she really want to tell you about thing that don't exist? I would not bother to meet a kook who wants to waste my time converting their ghost story, into a hardship story, into some social and emotional guilt trip. Since this seems like the most probably outcome, I would ask for an email detailing what they found out and how they want to proceed.

    More importantly though, I would start the eviction process. Ghosts aren't real, but nothing more real than rent being do on the first!

  • Attorney · Santa Cruz, CA · Member since 2015 · 345 posts · 358 votes
    8y

    Ut oh! I know this seems kind of funny. And people want to dismiss this as slacker tenants looking for a way out of paying rent. Unfortunately, there is case law across the United States that puts ghosts in the same category as mold. This means that if you are told a property is haunted, it is something you have to disclose to future buyers, under buyer protection laws, in states that have these laws.

    If you assume that most buyers wont want to buy a property, once the seller has disclosed that its haunted, you'll see this could substantially lower the value. Now, its very important that you listen to these tenants, and then do your own investigation with someone you believe is credible.

    In the mean time, I'd think seriously about letting them out of their lease so they dont tell everyone in the neighborhood, which could make this rumor haunt you & your property, forever.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y

    Who you gonna call .................................GhostBusters

  • Dawn AnastasiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Milwaukee, WI · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    No one, over hundreds of years, have been able to prove the existence of ghosts. Ghosts are not a defense to an eviction action should they not pay their rent.

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    8y

    @Dawn Anastasi  I have to disagree , there are ghosts , the famous one is Casper .

  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Matthew Paul:

    @Dawn Anastasi  I have to disagree , there are ghosts , the famous one is Casper .

    I agree, ghosts are real. Back in my younger dating days, I was ghosted several times. 

  • Rental Property Investor · West Bend, WI · Member since 2015 · 931 posts · 598 votes
    8y
    I dont know the law in Indiana, but in WI there is no disclosure requirement for "stigmatized" properties, and if say a murder happened at a home, unless the seller specifically wants you to tell buyers, you could be sued if you do, as it could affect the sale negatively, mold is a material adverse fact, an activity that once happened at the property is not material even though it may be adverse in some peoples minds, that is not for a seller or landlord to decide, sane minded people would find these things adverse as they do not affect the building or land. 


     
    Originally posted by @Jenifer Levini:

    Ut oh! I know this seems kind of funny. And people want to dismiss this as slacker tenants looking for a way out of paying rent. Unfortunately, there is case law across the United States that puts ghosts in the same category as mold. This means that if you are told a property is haunted, it is something you have to disclose to future buyers, under buyer protection laws, in states that have these laws.

    If you assume that most buyers wont want to buy a property, once the seller has disclosed that its haunted, you'll see this could substantially lower the value. Now, its very important that you listen to these tenants, and then do your own investigation with someone you believe is credible.

    In the mean time, I'd think seriously about letting them out of their lease so they dont tell everyone in the neighborhood, which could make this rumor haunt you & your property, forever.

  • Rental Property Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2017 · 104 posts · 64 votes
    8y

    Just curious, can you look up info such as if a person ever been murdered in a property your looking to buy like you do for taxes and etc? So I can try to avoid a situation like this 

  • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    I would deal with this like you'd deal with any other questionable tenant request.  Be sympathetic, understand their concerns, and let them know that you'll support them if they want to get a healer type person in the house to cleanse it, etc.  I would let them pay for it of course.  Or maybe agree to chip in $100 (or some reasonable amount) to make them happy.

    The bigger issue is rent.  They can't withhold their rent regardless of the issue. You also may consider letting them out of the lease.  Forcing a tenant to stick around is never a good thing and rarely works out well.  They need to pay for the time they've been in the house, and maybe a 1-month termination so you can find a new tenant.  Something similar...  It's a pain, but you're probably not going to be able to convince them to stay.

  • Investor · Kaiserslautern, Germany · Member since 2017 · 77 posts · 25 votes
    8y

    @Jenifer Levini Wow! That's good information. This issue is something that has never even crossed my mind. 

  • Managing Broker / Investor · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2015 · 350 posts · 362 votes
    8y

    The source of the  haunting may not able to be known. It may not have been a recent murder, it could be an ancient Indian burial ground or the portal to hell like in the Amityville Horror. It could be the ghost of a pre-historic mammal that got murdered and eaten in that location. That might explain why it's so clumsy and knocking over candles. Maybe it's not a ghost at all but an alien with cloaking technology so the tenants cannot see it. It could be anything....now I'm scared! RUN! RUN FOR YOUR LIFE!

    What will these deadbeat tenants think of next?!? 

  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    8y

    The easy answer, and really the only answer: pay or quit notice. Whether you do or don't believe in ghosts, or whether the tenant does or does not, is of absolutely no consequence. If the tenant was that concerned, she should have asked for a "ghost-free" escape clause in the lease. Since she didn't, I assume it's not something that she holds as a strong belief. I would not bother meeting with anyone to discuss what they found, unless they want to pay the rent that is due first. And even then I doubt I would meet with them, because I would flat-out tell them that I think ghosts and ghost readers is a bunch of bunk. 

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  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Jenifer Levini:

    Ut oh! I know this seems kind of funny. And people want to dismiss this as slacker tenants looking for a way out of paying rent. Unfortunately, there is case law across the United States that puts ghosts in the same category as mold. This means that if you are told a property is haunted, it is something you have to disclose to future buyers, under buyer protection laws, in states that have these laws.

    If you assume that most buyers wont want to buy a property, once the seller has disclosed that its haunted, you'll see this could substantially lower the value. Now, its very important that you listen to these tenants, and then do your own investigation with someone you believe is credible.

    In the mean time, I'd think seriously about letting them out of their lease so they dont tell everyone in the neighborhood, which could make this rumor haunt you & your property, forever.

     I would really like to know what states have "ghost disclosure" laws, because I sure as hell am never going to buy property in those states. I respect the law, and other opinions, but "do your own investigation with someone you believe is credible"? Anyone who tells me that they are "ghost remediation specialists" or some other such nonsense automatically lacks credibility. There is ZERO scientific evidence that there is any such thing as ghosts, just as there is no scientific evidence of fairies, aliens, or the devil. People may believe in these things, and it is technically possible that some/all of these things exist, but there is no scientific evidence whatsoever that any of it exists, and attempting to disprove something without evidence is a waste of time. 

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  • Investor · West Chester , PA · Member since 2011 · 620 posts · 138 votes
    8y

    @Amy Mueller

    What’s the update and did they pay the rent 

  • Franklin, KY · Member since 2018 · 1 post · 1 vote
    8y

    I am actually shocked at the amount of ignorance & lack of compassion from so many. 

    To the person who says there is no 'proof' of the existence of ghosts... Do you believe in God? What proof do you have? Have you met Him? Seen Him? Anything other than what we have been told....didn't think so. 

    Second. Not all tenants are 'slackers' & a landlord not wanting to believe in or deal with something doesn't make it less true. Ownership of a rental home, in NO way, increases a person's credibility. I have been the tenant who realizes the place they're trying to make a home is haunted. Laugh, roll your eyes, whatever you need to do to feel better about yourself. Again, that does not make it less true. 

    I wouldn't pay rent to someone that doesn't have a few minutes to speak to me about matters concerning the house either. Considering she has already seemingly had an investigation, you may want to cover yourself & at least pretend to give a damn about more than the money. 

    Karma, while I have no proof, is also real. Be careful of the toes you step on today as they may be connected to the person whose *** you need to kiss tomorrow. 

  • Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2017 · 32 posts · 12 votes
    8y
    Please let us know how it goes. It’s something new and any landlord may encounter this kind of bs situation.
  • JD MartinBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Rock Star Extraordinaire · Northeast, TN · Member since 2015 · 10k+ posts · 16k+ votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Brooke Johnson:

    I am actually shocked at the amount of ignorance & lack of compassion from so many. 

    To the person who says there is no 'proof' of the existence of ghosts... Do you believe in God? What proof do you have? Have you met Him? Seen Him? Anything other than what we have been told....didn't think so. 

    Second. Not all tenants are 'slackers' & a landlord not wanting to believe in or deal with something doesn't make it less true. Ownership of a rental home, in NO way, increases a person's credibility. I have been the tenant who realizes the place they're trying to make a home is haunted. Laugh, roll your eyes, whatever you need to do to feel better about yourself. Again, that does not make it less true. 

    I wouldn't pay rent to someone that doesn't have a few minutes to speak to me about matters concerning the house either. Considering she has already seemingly had an investigation, you may want to cover yourself & at least pretend to give a damn about more than the money. 

    Karma, while I have no proof, is also real. Be careful of the toes you step on today as they may be connected to the person whose *** you need to kiss tomorrow. 

     Assuming that you're not the renter the OP is talking about -

    1. Believe what you want to believe on your own time. When you rent a house from someone you have a fiduciary responsibility to pay the rent irrespective of God, Jesus, Allah, Zeus, or the Tooth Fairy. One has no relationship to the other.

    2. Believing that a house is haunted doesn't make it scientific fact, and thus has no place in the rule of law.

    3. You would pay rent to me, regardless of my few minutes, because I would evict you otherwise. 

    4. I like people and have always had good relationships with my renters but I do this for one reason: to make money. If you want the hand-holding committee, you should look for a social services home or similar. Landlords are not your parents, your spiritual adviser, or your benefactors. They sell a product (the house you rent) and expect payment for services, period. If you don't like those terms, you either negotiate it into the lease or you leave. 

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  • Real Estate Agent · Virginia Beach, VA · Member since 2012 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    I, personally, would 1) stick to the lease requiring proper notices for any non-payment and 2) request whatever professional she hired deliver something in writing, a report or estimate of repair (or cleansing or whatever) if they want you to do anything about it, that you need something specific in writing before making any determination.  Then you'll at least have some sort of proof if that company is damaging your home's reputation in any way, and you can possibly hire your own "professional" for a second opinion.

  • Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2017 · 861 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    This is going to sound weird, but make sure you have carbon monoxide detectors in the house.  A lot of "hauntings" (hearing noises, seeing things) and bizarre activities like doing things and not remembering, wind up being related to carbon monoxide poisoning. 

    There's a somewhat famous (and relevant!) post on reddit where someone thought their landlord was gaslighting them by sneaking into their house and leaving post-it notes everywhere, but somehow mimicking the tenant's handwriting.  It turned out to be the tenant suffering from CO poisoning, and once that was fixed, the notes went away! 

    Of course, could just be someone that is actually just plain nuts, or trying to get out of an obligation, but that never happens in this business, right?

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