BEWARE this crooked contractor in San Antonio!!

BEWARE this crooked contractor in San Antonio!!

Contractor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2013 · 647 posts · 205 votes

To those who have read my other post regarding this gentleman, here is a bit more elaboration. To preface this synopsis, though, let's be clear that many many mistakes were made on all our (investors') end, so for those of you who have never run into something like this, please take the lessons home with you. Don't be scared to operate out of your areas, but put procedures in place to protect yourselves. Also, since he seems to have disappeared, any info on him or his associates/clients (victims...?) would be appreciated. In any event, here's a VERY concise summary:

BACKGROUND:

I first started dealing with Robert “Bob” Gonzalez of Pleasant Renovation and Remodeling in October of 2013 when I hired him to the role of general contractor for a rehab property in San Antonio, Texas. Around the same time, a colleague hired him for work on 2 rehabs. The timeframe on my rehab and one of his was 6-8 weeks, with his second property to follow completion of the first. Bob offered us a VERY competitive price, and I must say, he was one of the smoothest talkers I’ve ever met. We were assured by Bob that he had plenty of crews to do the work in a timely manner, but come December, both properties were unfinished, and we couldn’t figure out why, with all the workers on the project. To sum THAT up in a nutshell, Bob had perhaps 6-8 part-to-full time employees of varying degrees of skill who he would pull off his other projects when he learned that the owner was going to be dropping by. Otherwise, he was just constantly, as in daily, reallocating his crews off our projects to those of new clients to show them how "hard working" he and his guys were and to convince them of the need for more funds to "keep up his progress", then when he got them, he'd move on to the next victim...I mean, client. Of course, much of this was only learned after the fact.

Two months after starting work on my project, Bob was barely done with half the work on my property, and perhaps ¾ finished with my colleague’s first property. At this point he had done most of the aesthetic work interior and exterior, but had not finished the interior, or the HVAC, electrical, appliance and kitchen installation, bathrooms, etc. At this point we both started to pressure him, though the latter (more expensive) draws had to be paid to get the HVAC, final electrical, etc underway. Once he received the funds for these, Bob slowed to a crawl, with workers not showing up at all, doing shoddy work when they were there, etc. In light of this over the next couple of months, my colleague literally ended up kicking Bob off of his jobsite and supervising Bob’s guys himself while searching for deficiencies. This particular search found the following (off the top of my head): HOT wires loose under the insulation in the attic; non-working plugs and switches throughout the house; numerous aesthetic QC issues; showers/sinks with no hot water owing to incorrect plumbing; a hot wire SPLICED INTO A METAL LAMP CORD found in the attic… In a nutshell, his entire house had to be rewired because Bob had turned it into a FIRETRAP; on top of this, two dishwashers were “removed for faulty (insert excuse here)” and replaced with inferior models, in addition to a stove, during the three or so week period.

Now, let’s go back to my place. Between January and April, I pressed Bob repeatedly to finish up, particularly after he received the draws to finish the more expensive final work. Towards early April, Bob stated that a number of burglaries had occurred in the area, and that he had removed my oven and dishwasher “so they couldn’t be stolen”, though I know for a fact no oven or dishwasher was ever there. Long story short, Bob disappeared in late April with mine and my colleague’s remaining (paid for) work unfinished. Immediately before his disappearance, the above-mentioned appliance removal occurred at my colleague’s property, and mine was broken into shortly after with no signs of forced entry, with the exception of the loss of about $3,000 worth of flooring and other materials, and the door being unlocked and ajar. In the case of my property, Bob had been seen a couple weeks prior to his disappearance by my colleague, who helped keep an eye on the property, changing the locks; only my colleague and Bob had a key to the new lock.

After Bob vanished, I was left with about $10,000 worth of paid for, unfinished work, plus the additional $10,000 I had to shell out, and my colleague was out approximately $15,000 for starting his second property.

ITEMS AND OBSERVATIONS AFTER THE FACT:

Bob had about six investors (that we now know about), both local and out of town, who had the exact same issues in the same timeframe;

When he disappeared, Bob had approximately $100,000 in paid for, unfinished work between the six owners, not counting tens of thousands of dollars in shoddy work, ALSO not counting the losses of items stolen afterward;

After Bob’s disappearance, EACH one’s property was broken into, with the loss of appliances, HVAC components, granite countertops, and all varieties of building materials, adding up to tens of thousands of dollars;

Bob is known to have used fake and unrelated addresses, claimed possession of properties he didn't own, and generally changes his stories when pressed, especially when called out.

Bob utilizes two long-expired contractor license numbers on the letterhead of his estimates, and he has no current licenses.

To summarize this review, STAY AWAY FROM THIS MAN AND HIS ASSOCIATES!! If you know of him or have colleagues who are undergoing similar circumstances, dig deeper, as it may be the same gentleman. CAVEAT EMPTOR.

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Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
12y

You bought a service from a guy who sold you on the premise of your sheer, absolute, blinding greed. He then lied to you, stole from you, and put you through the wringer because he continued to appeal to your greed.

Your situation is unfortunate, and your story sad. It's a story I've heard a hundred times from a hundred investors.

Folks, don't be blinded by greed and hire someone based solely on the basis that he told you the lie you wanted to hear. ("Sure we can do this for $50,000! That guy who told you $150,000 is just full o' shyte!")

I hope you find this guy, and I hope you hang him by his toes. I hope your state has a licensing board and I hope that you turn them on to him. I hope that you do everything in your power to warn other people about him (Yelp, Google reviews, etc.)... in short, I hope that he never gets the opportunity to rob someone again.

I also hope that your story serves as a beautiful warning to the next investor, dealing with the next Robert Gonzalez. I hope that investors everywhere will stop listening to silver-tongued liars who will rob from them.

And THANK YOU for having the balls to admit that you got taken! Warning stories like this are incredibly valuable to the community as a whole.

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Contractor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2013 · 647 posts · 205 votes
    12y

    @Aaron McGinnis , I agree that there are definitely extremes; you can't treat everyone like a crook, but you can't be too trusting (like, say, me...). Honestly, I'm not going to be buying any materials from 1,500 miles away, either. I've pretty much decided I'm going to shoot for a compromise in my contract: contractor provides an approximate week-by-week timeline for the project, correlates the draws to the work to be done each week, with large budget items e.g. hvac, appliances, foundation work, etc limited to their own draws; that shouldn't over complicate things too much, it limits my risk, and doesn't force the contractor to pay out of pocket.

    @Matthew Paul As a contractor, what would your take be on an arrangement like I just described?

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    12y

    @Matthew Paul

    you make a great point about warranting materials you did not buy. Many do not know this but a lot of the materials you buy at home depot and or lowes are not state approved. .especially with plumbing items. can HD sell them yes.. But are they state compliant no.. I had this issue on one of my rehabs were we bought a HD shower pan that cracked.. buyer wanted it replaced. I said no.. lawyer said its not approved in the state I went to manufacturer and sure enough not approved in my state.. I had to replace it at my cost with an approved one.

    I think the real issue here is rehab contractors by and large do not have the funds to carry a job they need money up front or at least weekly.

    In the home building trades. We pay once a month. And the subs can float their payroll accordingly and they have their own credit at the supply houses.

    When you dealing with rehab contractors they usually are not in a position to float payroll for 6 weeks and have no credit accounts. there for you are forced to either buy the materials for them or pay in advance.

    As well as from Matthew's point of view he does not want to start a job unless he is paid up front.. AS you don't want to get stiffed by the rehabber.

    If there is a bank loan then or HML I think a rehabber just needs to ask the question were are the funds coming from.. If its out of pocket then for sure you want some financial security.. Maybe put the contract amount in escrow with draws... If the funds are coming from a HML or bank then just be in communication with your client know who the lenders are so if you have an issue you go right to the lender.

    I would never pay a sub up front on new construction.. IN the mid west and east coast for rehab we have to pay draws in advance to get the pricing we need to be competitive. You just need to really trust your guys.

  • Contractor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2013 · 647 posts · 205 votes
    12y

    @Jay Hinrichs Thanks for all that information and the anecdote; I think it really helps to see things from the contractors' perspective, something which I realize I've not done in any detail. Everyone has their own circumstances and expectations, and keeping those realistic all the way around is probably best for everyone. Also, the liability of materials which you mentioned is definitely something I'd never thought of, and I can see how it might creep up later. Thanks for the input Jay.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    I think the real issue here is rehab contractors by and large do not have the funds to carry a job they need money up front or at least weekly.

    In the home building trades. We pay once a month. And the subs can float their payroll accordingly and they have their own credit at the supply houses.

    When you dealing with rehab contractors they usually are not in a position to float payroll for 6 weeks and have no credit accounts. there for you are forced to either buy the materials for them or pay in advance.

    Exactly. Different level of contractor and different trade-offs. There are times when I'm looking for the best price, and the trade-off is using someone who doesn't have good money management skills and is desperate for a job (he may be just as good a contractor, but is willing to cut his rate to get immediate work). And then there are times when I want the guys who drive the expensive trucks and have on-site management -- I pay more but I get better payment terms because those contractors have their financial house in order.

    As Jay pointed out, I've found that with new construction, I can often finish the entire project before most of the invoices are due (many Net 90 invoices). On the first new construction project, we literally sold the project before 30% of the cost of the project needed to be paid! Our ROI increased dramatically due to the float...

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    12y

    @Scott K.

    Wow Net 90 we don't see that out here on the west coast.. Net 30 yes and a 1% discount if paid before the 30 days.. In the last few years were houses have all sold at completion we will pay the last draw from the sale proceeds and not have to borrow from our credit line.

    If we had net 90 in our market.. Title insurance would be an issue.. Title would want to pay all the subs before they issued what we call early issue title insurance which is mandatory in our market..

    The reason is that properly effected mechanics liens take priority over all other Liens including your first mortgage construction loan. Most states the liens are junior to the loan but not in our state.. So we need this gap insurance for the buyers lender, and the title companies got burned in the last melt down so they need proof of payment before they will issue the policy.

    So our state is a good state to be a contractor as long as you follow the notification rules you will always get paid... Now you still have contractors that never follow the notification rules and lose their lien rights. But the they can sue for UNJUST enrichment and they will win, but that is a lawsuit and more expensive obviously and does not go senior to the debt.

  • Contractor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2013 · 767 posts · 389 votes
    12y

    Myself as a contractor won't do net 90. I very rarely do net 30 unless I know you and have a relationship with you. I'm COD, I get paid when I'm done within a reasonable amount of time, especially on homeowners. I'm not hounding you for a check if your construction sort of work, but I expect within 3-5 days.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    12y

    @Brian Mathews

    working direct with homeowners your policy is the norm I am sure throughout the industry.

    When your working for a developer builder on a new construction do they not pay once a month? your bill in on the 1st paid by the 10th?

    that's how it works here.. And if you miss getting your bill in by the first you get pushed to the next billing cycle. that teaches subs to get their bills in on time every time as they don't want to then wait 70 days to get paid.

    Its the same for us when we get draws from the bank.. We need our draw requests in on the 1st and they transfer funds to us by the 10th... If we miss the 1st we can't draw until the next month. Of course this is with banks not HML or private money, and I am sure its regionalized its just how they work it in our state

  • Contractor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2013 · 647 posts · 205 votes
    12y

    Thanks for the fantastic information everyone's been posting here, I know that I for one am getting a lot out of it. I hope that this thread gets a lot more attention, and that newer and out-of-area investors will learn the lessons which come from it without having to go through similar circumstances. If anyone would like to read more, please check out my associated blog post at:

    Now for a Whole Bunch of Lessons from Our First Rehab Experience

    Good luck everyone, and invest smart.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    12y

    @Chad Clanton

    If you buy your plumbing supplies from Fergusons you can be assured they are state compliant as that is where the licensed plumbers buy their materials by and large at least in our neck of the woods.

    That cheapie shower pan from HD cost me 3k to replace... So lesson learned... After 100's of fix and flips and new builds It had not even been an issue all these years. I just could not compute that non state approved Items would be sold by a national chain... But they do and they are and they will let you know it if you ask them...

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    @Scott K.

    Wow Net 90 we don't see that out here on the west coast.. Net 30 yes and a 1% discount if paid before the 30 days.. In the last few years were houses have all sold at completion we will pay the last draw from the sale proceeds and not have to borrow from our credit line.

    If we had net 90 in our market.. Title insurance would be an issue.. Title would want to pay all the subs before they issued what we call early issue title insurance which is mandatory in our market..

    One of these companies (ProBuild) is national and I'm fairly certain they have a big presence in Portland. They're one of the largest lumber/millwork/building supply houses in the company -- not sure if they do turnkey installation in your area, but they might. And not sure if net 90 was just Atlanta, but I would imagine it's company-wide.

    Builders First Source is another national supplier (second largest in the country) who is either net 60 or net 90. I believe they're in Portland as well, but again, not sure if they are turnkey or just materials.

  • Contractor · Round Rock, TX · Member since 2013 · 767 posts · 389 votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:
    @Brian Mathews

    working direct with homeowners your policy is the norm I am sure throughout the industry.

    When your working for a developer builder on a new construction do they not pay once a month? your bill in on the 1st paid by the 10th?

    that's how it works here.. And if you miss getting your bill in by the first you get pushed to the next billing cycle. that teaches subs to get their bills in on time every time as they don't want to then wait 70 days to get paid.

    Its the same for us when we get draws from the bank.. We need our draw requests in on the 1st and they transfer funds to us by the 10th... If we miss the 1st we can't draw until the next month. Of course this is with banks not HML or private money, and I am sure its regionalized its just how they work it in our state

    I might wait until draw day which is usually on a Friday around here. But to answer your question, no. I'm not waiting 30 days for payment on a job unless I know you and we have some sort of relationship established, which starts with you paying me in much less than 30 days for a while until I know you aren't a rip off artist that will string me along. I am not your bank. I've found that the longer you wait for payment, the easier it is for the payer to string you along with excuses, it's best to get the money our of their hands as quickly as possible to avoid it being spent elsewhere, such as on a vacation for the family (it's happened) or a broken down car. If that is an issue, I just won't work with somebody, it's not a big deal. I have plenty of work, I'm not some guy working for beer and cigarette money on Friday, I'm not desperate. And I know somebody will surely chime in on the opportunity for more work in the future. That's fine, you can give me more work, but I'm still not waiting 30 days unless I know and trust you. How the OP had an issue with him getting ripped off by a contractor, I've found that investors are probably the worst group to work for. They want everything as cheap as possible, they complain about everything and are slow to pay. So investors aren't my target market, I'll talk and listen to you, but I'm a good hvac contractor and do things correctly and for a price, I'm not the highest, I'm middle of the road I've found. I have a steady stream of referrals and my marketing does a decent job, so I'm good if I don't get a job from somebody, there are jobs I don't get, that's ok.

  • Contractor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2013 · 647 posts · 205 votes
    12y

    @Jay Hinrichs , thanks for that information, it's always good to know the good distributors. I'll be sure to check into them; I had no idea that non-compliant items would be sold on a broad scale either, and it would probably behoove me to ensure that anything I need is to spec. Good stuff.

  • J ScottPro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Sarasota, FL · Member since 2008 · 17k+ posts · 17k+ votes
    12y
    Originally posted by @Brian Mathews:
    I'm not waiting 30 days for payment on a job unless I know you and we have some sort of relationship established, which starts with you paying me in much less than 30 days for a while until I know you aren't a rip off artist that will string me along. I am not your bank.

    The companies that do this (net 30+) are typically the national companies...the "big boys." They don't "trust" anyone -- you fill out a credit application and they do a full credit check before extending you credit. In essence, they are a bank...and they're offering you credit in return for your business. This isn't something I've ever seen any local or even regional contractors do, btw...it's certainly the exception, not the rule.

    Best part is that they often have 1% discounts for sub-30 day payments. On an $80K job (like the one I have coming up with one of these companies), I get to decide if I'd rather have the extra 60 days to pay or an extra $800 in my pocket. Of course, I'm certainly paying more than $800 extra to use these guys (and probably too much :), but there are other benefits that come along with that, other than the payment terms...

  • Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2008 · 978 posts · 985 votes
    12y

    I guess I'm particularly draconian. As for deposits, my terms are... due on receipt. On day 11 you owe me 10% extra. On day 15, I put a lien on the house. We came to these terms after we had a few investors who thought it was hunky and dory to string me out for 45 days on a 40k receivable. Not. Cool.

    Try this litmus test: Go to a lending bank and ask them for a 30k line of credit. See what kind of financial-oscopy they put you through. Does a contractor put you through the same financial-oscopy? No? then why would you expect the contractor to come that far our of pocket on your job?

    We burn through projects pretty darn fast. Average throughput time is around 45 days on most jobs. If I did a net-90 payment draw I'd be perpetually carrying $300k in receivables... and I'm not about to do that!

    The companies J is talking about are national-level supply houses with ridiculously deep pockets (Probuild, Builder's First Choice)... very few contracting companies will offer those kind of terms (90 day).

  • Karen MargraveBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    @Chad Clanton I'm sorry you had such a bad experience with your job. However; that man was NOT a contractor! ALWAYS check licenses, before hiring a contractor. Most states have the information online (which actually makes it easier for unscrupulous thiefs to steal our info) it has bonding company, insurance, and whether or not the contractor carries workmans comp insurance. In California we have pocket ID cards. Ask to see them, along with a drivers license or other ID. If it's not the contractor but a representative, call the contractors office an verify the person. Check references.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    12y

    @Aaron McGinnis

    Agreed and if you see J Scott and my comments.. those that do rehab are in a completely different ball game than subs that work for new home builders and have years of relationships built up. Although this does not insulate them from being burned many builders went pear shaped in 08 and 09 and the subs got crushed ( when there was no money to pay them)..

    And to get credit from one of the building supply houses you do need to have them check your credit then personally guarantee the account.

    In my world Plumbing, hvac electrical all have accounts and provide all the materials and we get one bill, I do pay for lumber package Truss and Windows directly. So each is different.. The roofer roofs and charges us one fee, the painter paints and its one fee... WE use one outfit to provide all flooring tile work cabinet tops.. they provide all materials and give us one bill. landscaper gives us one bill.. Out here landscaping can be a pretty big number not unusual to spend 20 to 40k on landscaping 10k average.

    When we are doing rehabs out in the mid west or deep south.. its the same thing we have to give them a 1/3 to start 1/3 rd in the middle and 1/3rd when done. And yes if they finish on Thursday they want a check on Friday and we accommodate them. Its the trickle down effect.. their workers are Friday to Friday and need to be paid weekly we understand that.. So we do get better pricing from those you in advance or as you go then contractors that can bill you later.. Although not in all cases.. For instance we get custom paint jobs done for 2.25 a foot including paint inside and out... So 2000 sq ft home would be 4500 bucks total and its a kick butt job.. not rehabber slap the paint on a rent in KC type of job.

    I have just started building new homes in the Carolinas. And sub cost are almost double for labor then what we pay.. When it comes to skilled carpenters. We frame a house including nails for 3.50 a foot.. its double that or more.. WE side a house for 2 bucks etc etc.

    NOw go to Texas and its even cheaper... So everything is relative and regionalized in my mind.

  • Contractor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2013 · 647 posts · 205 votes
    12y

    @Karen Margrave Thank you for the comments; this being our first flip, I would say that nearly every mistake we made came back to bite us, including my failure to properly check references. That said, I'm going to reiterate for our other investors in San Antonio, CALL the San Antonio Development Services Department, DO NOT necessarily trust the online license-check database, as it has been incorrect/out of date on four contractors I've checked online and then called about. Also, for out-of-state investors, be aware that contractor licensing and registration in Texas is through the municipalities (and counties in some cases? not certain), not the state, something which it took me a while to wrap my head around after the fact.

    @Jay Hinrichs , the regional perspective is something which is very relevant and that I'm just learning to pay attention to, as we are not set on sticking with only one locale over the long run. It also means that we have to get used to different expectations, norms, etc everywhere we look to invest. I am, as demonstrated, brand new to all this, but I'm looking to put this HUGE learning experience to good use, and everyone's input is definitely helping with that. Thanks again to all who have replied so far, it is much appreciated!

  • Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 744 votes
    12y

    The low life contractors will give a new investor the lowest price and get a few dollars upfront and leave town. Many contractors try and save a few dollars by getting the the cheapest contractor. Legit contractors will not ask for money upfront but when you sign the agreement you are giving them permission to put a lien on your property until they are paid.

    Joe Gore

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    12y

    @Account Closed

    Do you recall the 60 minutes piece on the travelling band of Gypsy contractors that would flood into a market and promise to do roofing for next to nothing get big deposits then never to be heard of again.

    Its a fine line.. I have a few rentals over in Jackson that got hammered by the big hail last summer.. And I got all sorts of calls from roofing contractors but the phone numbers were in different states.. I remembered that 60 minute piece and went with a local... And these guys wanted dough up front.

    Or the all time classic movie " Tin Men" I recommend this to any rehabber or investor who is getting into the bizz... This movie is real life of what goes on in some segments of the contracting world.. Danny Devitto and Richard Dryfus stared in it....

    this was also how the Land sales bizz was done in the 50'

    s in Florida and CA. I know I was raised in it saw it first hand.

  • Karen MargraveBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    12y

    @Chad Clanton That's a good point. Every area and region of the country is different and has different licensing laws. Check yours!

    As for investing out of the area, etc. I'd suggest that for your first deals you do them close to home where you know your local market, economy, schools, etc. Having too many variable for your first projects increase your risk. LIMIIT RISK by working with some knowns. Once you learn the process of real estate, rehab, and are comfortable, then you will be better prepared to venture outside of your comfort zone. Small steps.

  • Contractor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2013 · 647 posts · 205 votes
    12y

    @Karen Margrave , I think you are correct in that it is much easier to start investing nearby rather than at a distance, and I know I've seen that advice before, as well. My reasoning is that I wasn't all that familiar with my local RE market at the time, anyhow, and given my fairly insane work schedule, I might as well invest out of state given how little time I would have available to physically go check out my property. That said, I have a number of friends down in Texas who I trust to help me keep an eye on things; with me heading down there more often and given that they learned the same lessons I did from this little incident, I'm pretty confident going forward. In this case, all the failures were business failures on my part, not market, price, or analysis failures. If he'd been fired when my gut told me, things would have been less severe. Live and learn.

  • Specialist · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 639 posts · 176 votes
    12y

    @Chad Clanton, if you get through all of this and make a profit on your deal, I'd congratulate you on an unforgettable and invaluable learning experience and ultimately, a very positive result for you on this one. Anyone who never makes a mistake, never makes anything.

    Thanks for sharing!

  • Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    12y

    The movie "Tin Men" was made in Baltimore Thats what started the Md home improvement contractors license , MHIC

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    12y

    @Matthew Paul

    and the same sales methods were used to sell recreational land in CA.. Primairly Boise Cascade and that created the Public Report that needs to be filed with the DRE when selling more than 5 vacant lots in a subdivision that is not served by city sewer water and elec.

  • Contractor · San Antonio, TX · Member since 2013 · 647 posts · 205 votes
    12y

    @David T. , thanks for the support. That's pretty much how I feel about it as well; it's easier when things go smoothly, but I don't think you learn nearly as much. When things go this far awry, you HAVE to learn ;-)

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