I figure I'll ask now as opposed to later

I figure I'll ask now as opposed to later

General Contractor/ Investor · Tulsa, OK · Member since 2014 · 41 posts · 14 votes

Hello BPrs,

I'll start by saying that this would be my first purchase, I could purchase for all cash if there is a sufficient reason to do that, but I want to be prepared to make several offers. It's the creative offers that I'm having a hard time coming up with. I've analyzed the #'s as best I know how with my limited knowledge. My Exit strategy is to sell for profit after fixing up. I am a remodeling contractor, so that won't be a problem. I met with a hispanic realtor yesterday who is hooked up with the hispanic community and would find a buyer on a contract for deed for a 3.5% commission. She is doing that with another investor and looks to be moving desirable properties quickly with a good down payment and an above market sales price.

I am going to be looking at a SFR 3/1/2 that I have a lead on through probate searching. They say they plan to list soon but that I can look at the property. The house looks excellent on the exterior and after I see the interior I'll obviously have the complete picture. I believe the house is free and clear. Most houses in the sub are 3/ 1.5's and 3/2's , but there are several 3/1's and most of them are less sq ft (1,050) as compared to the one I'm looking at (1,244 sq ft.) The best sales comp I've found sold for $89K ($85/sqft) in May, also a 3/1/2 , but it is 196 sq. ft. smaller. So, If I use a conservative SP/sqft of $80, I come up with the following analysis:

Puchase price ($52/sqft) 65,000

Closing costs 2,000

Updates/renovations 10,000

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Total invested 77,000

Exit Analysis:

Sales Price ($80/sqft) 100,000

6% commission (in case the 3.5% doesn't work out) (6,000)

4 mos holding costs (taxes, ins,utils) (1,200)

closing costs (again) (2,000)

____________________________________________________________________

Gross Profit 90,800

Less amount Invested (77,000)

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Net profit $13,800

Cash on Cash return (ROI)

13,800 / 77,000 = 17.9% (4 months)

How does all this look? If they don't go for the 65K offer, how could I creatively purchase and still come out with the same profit in the end?

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Investor · Waynesville, NC · Member since 2014 · 408 posts · 121 votes
11y

That net profit is pretty thin and doesn't really allow for any unexpected stuff. I aim for at least $20-25k unless I am very certain of the numbers on the rehab and the sells price. Being your first flip, I advise against doing anything with such a small margin. A few unexpected things in the rehab or a few extra months on the market will eat that $13,800 in a hurry.

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  • Investor · Waynesville, NC · Member since 2014 · 408 posts · 121 votes
    11y

    That net profit is pretty thin and doesn't really allow for any unexpected stuff. I aim for at least $20-25k unless I am very certain of the numbers on the rehab and the sells price. Being your first flip, I advise against doing anything with such a small margin. A few unexpected things in the rehab or a few extra months on the market will eat that $13,800 in a hurry.

  • General Contractor/ Investor · Tulsa, OK · Member since 2014 · 41 posts · 14 votes
    11y

    That's not what I wanted to hear, but that's why I put it out there....for feedback. So thank you. I need to go look at the inside before I write it off though. Not having done a deal yet, I'm pretty anxious, but patience is a virtue, and it would be a good experience just to make an offer for 6K less than I figured originally to allow for 20k profit and you never know, they might go for it.....right?

  • Real Estate Broker · Indianapolis, IN · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    11y

    They say you should be embarrassed when you make your offers. They say if you're not getting mainly no's then you're offering too much. The big thing with Real Estate is you want to make your money on the purchase. Being able to pay all cash always looks good on offers!

  • Salem, OR · Member since 2013 · 701 posts · 159 votes
    11y

    My formula also shows that you are paying $7,000 too much.  I am not ashamed of making low offers because I explain that this is all I can pay and still make my profit.  I am not ashamed of making a profit.  By the way, I want 20% on the purchase, holding, and rehab cost.

    Good Luck.

    Bill 

  • Real Estate Agent · Weatherford, TX · Member since 2011 · 726 posts · 284 votes
    11y

    Good afternoon @Steve Gregory :)

    I'm wondering about the $10K rehab budget.  Tulsa probably isn't too much different than DFW, and $10K around here will usually get you good rental grade rehab for a house that size, IF the roof, foundation and HVAC are good and you don't have to replace all the appliances & cabinets.  

    Maybe that level is good enough to sell for a good price where you are.  I know in my city (Weatherford, TX), there are many areas of town where in older houses, there's not much price difference between the rental grade rehabs and the very nice rehabs.  It appears to be money wasted on some of them to splurge on new hardwoods or granite.

    This being your first deal, I would base your max offer on at netting at least 20% of your exit price if not more, for extra cushion.  That way, if something goes awry, you have room to wiggle.

    Assuming your exit price, holding, and rehab are correct, here are my thoughts:

    Exit: 100K (your number)

    - Selling Costs (8% = $8K)

    - Purchase Costs if paying cash (1% = $1K)

    - Holding Costs $1200 (your number)

    - Rehab $10K (your number)

    - Minimum Profit Target 20% Exit = $20K

    -------------------------------------------------------

    Max Offer: ~$60K

    I like this formula better than the 70% rule in some cases because fixed costs can vary and you can accurately plan your estimated profit.  

    Ditto on Be embarrassed by the first offer....if you're not embarrassed, you're offering too much.  If I knew the most I could pay is $60K, I'd offer $45-50K and see where it goes.

    Good luck!!!! And don't chase thin deals just to "get a deal".

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