Just purchased 5th property...maybe a flip...maybe a rental.

Just purchased 5th property...maybe a flip...maybe a rental.

Investor & Attorney · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 86 posts · 29 votes

We recently closed on our fifth property. For those interested, here is the story and numbers. I would love to hear your thoughts and advice regarding whether to flip or rent.

Acquisition:

The property is in the same neighborhood as our rentals. The single-family home was abandoned because the seller had gone into assisted living. We spoke with her about acquiring the property. She was interested but informed us that there was a lien on the property. After investigating, we found that the lien was $107,000! The property was in very bad shape and was only worth $30-40k in its current condition. ARV would be about $100k.

I decided to pursue it anyways and after 2 months of negotiations with the lienholder, they accepted $5500 to release their $107,000 lien. I was extremely happy with that! We also had to pay all fees, back taxes, and closing costs. In total, we spent $15,500 to acquire the property. The purchase and rehab are all cash.

Analysis:

We are estimating $40,000 in rehab. We are converting it from a 2 bed, 1 bath to a 3 bed, 1.1 bath. I'm figuring an ARV of $100k but a conservative sale price of $90k.

Our long-term strategy is to build a portfolio of rental properties that produce significant monthly cashflow. 

FLIP:

This would be our first flip and it's hard to accept the idea of paying all those taxes. And I'm not convinced that is the best wealthy-building strategy. I really identify with the thoughts here: 

http://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/3122/blog_posts/39457-why-im-not-a-flipper-dont-kill-the-goos

RENTAL:

We own & manage 4 other rentals in the same small neighborhood. Adding a fifth would not be a problem. The property will rent for about $1300/mo so it would be well above the 2% rule. Also, our lender will do a cash out refi at 75% LTV after 6 months of seasoning. So in mid-2015 we could pull out $85k tax-free and use it acquire the next property.

Our overall strategy is to build a portfolio of long-term rentals that produce significant monthly cashflow. 

As you can probably tell, I'm leaning towards keeping and renting this property. I'd love to hear the BP community's thoughts on this. Am I missing anything? What other factors go into your "flip vs rent" decision?

Also, here's a "before" picture.

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Investor · Wichita Falls, TX · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 603 votes
11y

Smoking deal! Maybe you can share some information on how the negotiation went down with the lien holder?

I would definitely keep it as a rental! 

  • You own other property in the area
  • Tax free ability to pull out your initial capital + some extra
  • It is line with your long term goals.

At the new ARV, does the number's match with your other rentals? Does the property cash flow well even after the cash out at the ARV? Obviously the deal is smoking and has a potential for a "theoretic" infinite return when you pull your money out. I still like to consider the 2% rule in terms of the appraised value on the cash out. In this case, $90k-$100k. Even with those numbers, I'd still do exactly as your inclining to!

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  • Investor · Wichita Falls, TX · Member since 2010 · 3k+ posts · 603 votes
    11y

    Smoking deal! Maybe you can share some information on how the negotiation went down with the lien holder?

    I would definitely keep it as a rental! 

    • You own other property in the area
    • Tax free ability to pull out your initial capital + some extra
    • It is line with your long term goals.

    At the new ARV, does the number's match with your other rentals? Does the property cash flow well even after the cash out at the ARV? Obviously the deal is smoking and has a potential for a "theoretic" infinite return when you pull your money out. I still like to consider the 2% rule in terms of the appraised value on the cash out. In this case, $90k-$100k. Even with those numbers, I'd still do exactly as your inclining to!

  • Investor & Attorney · Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 86 posts · 29 votes
    11y

    Thank you @Mehran K. 

    The lienholder was a state government agency. They were actually rather pleasant to deal with. Once I reached a decision-maker, she was very responsive and helpful. However, things moved slow and I was never sure if they would settle. I had to provide them with a BPO and justify the low offer price. I had to provide proof of EVERY additional closing cost. I was not allowed to provide any funds to the seller. I gave them my "final and best" offer a number of times and threatened to walk away from the deal. 

    I wouldn't say it was overly difficult. It was just long. But I'm very happy I stuck with it and pursued a deal that seemed impossible.

    Yes, the ARV is very similar to the other properties. It will cashflow well even with the cash-out refi. The thought of "flipping" is fun but I need to keep thinking long-term. I really appreciate your input.

  • Specialist · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Derek Martin 

    I read most of that article you linked and here's the thing. Mark Cuban said in an interview 'buy and hold investing is for idiots' I'm paraphrasing here but something along those lines. And trust me, that guy is a VERY smart man. To note, I am a buy and hold investor when it comes to RE buy thats simply because I have a well paying fulltime job which doesn't afford me the time to do flips property. I do think the 'Warren Buffet' type of investing is a dying breed in this day and age.

    Congrats on the deal though! Just as there are smokin' B&H deals, I am sure the flippers on here can share their fair share ;) of smokin' deals.

  • Real Estate Broker · Naples, FL · Member since 2013 · 9k+ posts · 6k+ votes
    11y

    Keep it. That is how you build long term wealth. A flip would result in less profit and more taxes.

  • Investor · Chino, CA · Member since 2014 · 76 posts · 30 votes
    11y

    Congrats on the deal!

    I would keep it.

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