Should we close on this 4 unit?

Should we close on this 4 unit?

Real Estate Agent · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 6 votes

We are under contract for a 4 unit apartment complex in Taft for $170k.

Each unit rents for $575. Currently, there is 50% vacancy. It was advertised as fully occupied. I talked with one of the tenants who has lived there for 10 years. She says it has been vacant since October, although sellers financials say it has only been vacant for one month. She only speaks Spanish, so I could've misinterpreted her but I'm 90% sure that's what she said. She also said the other units on the block are cheaper and do not require a deposit. She said that the current owner would sometimes take 20 days to respond to maintenance requests (she is the acting property manager) and at one point they didn't have hot water for a month. So there is definitely room for us to do a better job landlording.

They are all farm workers, so the work is seasonal and I'm concerned with the drought we are facing now in California we will be seeing a slow down of farm development and thus a loss of farm worker jobs. Taft is a town of 10,000 oil/ag workers, but it also has a community college and a prison, about 1 hour from Bakersfield. 

Accounting for 10% vacancy, prop management (10% of income), insurance (.5%/year), prop tax (1.34%), maintenance (1%), water, garbage, sewer ($250 per month) in our analysis originally we have monthly CF per door of $125 with cap rate 7.58% and Cash ROI 11.76%. If we lowered the rents to $535, monthly CF per door is $92.50 and cap rate is 6.70% and cash ROI is 8.71%. But with the vacancy rate at 50% currently, we are going to ask for a reduction in the purchase price. Any advice/ thoughts/ insights would be extremely helpful as this is our first deal and we don't want to TOTALLY screw up! Thank you :)

0Reply
76 views

Most Popular Reply

Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2011 · 355 posts · 90 votes
10y

You're about to lose a bunch of money on this building. Trust me. In my mind, the numbers are horrible, there's likely a ton of deferred maintenance, it's been poorly managed, etc. The two vacancies are likely your best tenants.

The reality is that right now there is about $1150/mo in scheduled income, because two units are rented. If the other two units were easy to rent, then they wouldn't be vacant. Don't pay the seller for all the work YOU are going to put into it. You pay for the building as it is now, which is crappy.

Let's say it was completely fixed up, you've done all the work, spent all the money to fix it up, and gotten new tenants (probably 4 new ones, to be honest). Then you'll have a building which is still only bringing in around $2300, which is probably an annual net of $14,000 or so. In which case it's worth $140k at a 10% cap rate, and that's AFTER all the hard work and headache. You don't need to pay the seller for all the hard work you're going to have to do.

You're going to have to put $50k into this project. Offer them $120k and if they don't take it, just walk away. Sadly, if you walk away you won't know how lucky you got. But if you take it, you'll regret it.

See this reply in the discussion

32 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Investor · Thousand Oaks, CA · Member since 2012 · 176 posts · 47 votes
    10y

    Personally, I'd stay far away from Taft. The only thing there is really the community college, other than that, you can expect high vacancy rates and unpredictable income, and high unemployment.

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    Why not manage it yourself, if it's just an hour away?  A PM will always cost more than 10%.  There is a fee to get a unit rented, to kick a tenant out, to find another one, to supervise repairs, etc.

    Can you target other types of tenants for this building besides ag workers?  What's the street like?  Would prison workers or college students want to live in them?  Are these units big enough for families?

    What's the rental market like?  Who would your target tenants be?

    If all of your tenants would be Spanish-speaking and you can't speak it fluently, or don't know the culture, I don't think you should buy it.

    The Mexican culture is tricky for non-Mexicans.  As a rule, they don't like confrontations.  They will agree with you, and tell you what they think you want to hear.  For a non-Mexican, westerner, it can be really frustrating.  I lived in Mexico for a year and it was kind of like when I moved to Tennessee for five years.  That overly polite, side-stepping, avoiding confrontation, mentality is maddening when you are just trying to get to what they're trying so hard not to say.  If you know what I mean.  

    And if they are non-citizens from Mexico, they will be afraid of getting in trouble or making you mad, so getting direct, honest answers from them would be very difficult.

    If you can market to a pool of tenants you understand better, I think you'll have better success.  It's not a matter of one type of tenant being better, it's a matter of needing to be able to communicate effectively and efficiently.  

    And as you know, ag workers migrate, for the most part.

    So, I'd suggest you really look at the area and who your potential tenant base is.  And manage it yourself, if you can.  Hiring someone to manage four units, will always cost more than 10%.  There are fees, too, and they can be hefty.

  • Real Estate Agent · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    @Josh Justiniano thank you for your comment! The vacancy definitely concerns me. Should I be concerned that seller "lied" on the financials? 

  • Investor · Thousand Oaks, CA · Member since 2012 · 176 posts · 47 votes
    10y

    You're welcome. I'm do some wholesaling in Bakersfield area, and whenever I get leads or contracts from Taft it's so hard to get off. Just be careful and know that there's a limited buyer pool and limited renters. Good Luck!

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Allison Escovedo:

    @Josh Justiniano thank you for your comment! The vacancy definitely concerns me. Should I be concerned that seller "lied" on the financials? 

     Not if you want it anyway, regardless of what he said.  Although, you can use it to negotiate a better price.

  • Real Estate Agent · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed thank you for your comment! We plan to manage it right now, but we wanted to do the financials based on our exit strategy (we plan to leave California in 7-10 years).

    I don't see students or prison workers wanting to live in these units. The whole street was primarily families - all were Mexican/ Hispanic. There isn't much "pride in ownership" on the block, so even if we fixed up the units, they probably wouldn't rent for much more than $600.  

    Our target tenants would have to be farm workers or oil workers, which are both cyclical and migratory. 

    I am a Mexican American and speak decent Spanish, but I definitely understand what you mean when you say they are nonconfrontational. That doesn't concern me as I have a lot of experience with the culture. I actually sighed a sigh of relief when I saw the tenants- I was concerned they were going to be meth-heads! I can't handle druggies. Thank you again for your input! 

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    @Allison Escovedo That's great!  So, then, they're just hard-working folk.  I bet if you worked with them on their rentals, maybe just do month-to-month agreements, and you take good care of the place, you can keep it filled.  It would be more work than finding long-term tenants, but it should stay rented.  The word would get out that you take care of the place and are fair.

    I bet you could make it work for you.

    Long-term, once you left CA, could be a problem.  But, maybe by then, you'll have met someone local you could trust to manage it.  Or you could just sell it.

    I'm assuming you'll not have the current "manager" continue to manage - since she's got 50% vacancy on a 4 unit place - one of which she lives in LOL.

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    @Allison Escovedo By the way, how big are the units?  Multiple bedrooms?  I wonder if renting out rooms would work even better for you?  And hire a cleaning person to come in and clean regularly, maybe?  Like a rooming house.

  • Investor · Cypress, CA · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 7 votes
    10y

    @Allison Escovedo Hi Allison, why would you not invest in Bakersfield? Many good deals, good cash flow, and close to home!?

  • Real Estate Agent · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 6 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Allison Escovedo By the way, how big are the units?  Multiple bedrooms?  I wonder if renting out rooms would work even better for you?  And hire a cleaning person to come in and clean regularly, maybe?  Like a rooming house.

    Definitely an idea! The units are 2 bedroom, 1 bath...And I was thinking about providing some type of incentive for the current PM...because right now they are paying her $75 a month for managing the place. But if I can provide an incentive if the units are occupied, then I'm sure she'll be more inclined to tell her friends / get the units filled.

  • Real Estate Agent · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 6 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Roger Leonard:

    @Allison Escovedo Hi Allison, why would you not invest in Bakersfield? Many good deals, good cash flow, and close to home!?

    Hi Roger, thanks for the comment! We are definitely looking in Bakersfield and keeping that as our #1 option, but in our search we are focusing on cash flow and that only occurs in Class C/D parts of town....and we haven't found a deal in a Class C/D part of town that we like. I can't handle druggies/meth heads, which is what you get in a lot of Oildale. And East Bakersfield just terrifies me (Virginia Ave)..and since we are planning to manage it ourselves on our first deal, we wanted one that wouldn't terrify us. Have you invested much in Bakersfield? What locations are you looking for?  

  • Investor · Cypress, CA · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 7 votes
    10y

    @Allison Escovedo Yes, I have two condos in the Southwest area Ming and New Stine Rd., They have done very well.I am on the fourth year of renting them. I found 1 on Craigslist and the other next door by luck! I did not know of BP at the time, so I kind of just winged it.  

  • Investor · Cypress, CA · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 7 votes
    10y

    @Allison Escovedo BTW, If you continue to look into the 4 unit, try and figure out why two of the units are not rented. Is it because of the economy, are they seasonal, need work, over priced? Can you remedy the reason or is it beyond your control? Answering that question will help you decide. In my case, the guy I purchased from "could not keep the unit rented". Why? The A/C unit was 30 years old! New A/c unit, paint, carpet, problem solved. 

  • Gene HackerPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 969 posts · 488 votes
    10y

    @Allison Escovedo You have gotten a lot of really good advice.  I would just add a couple things.  

    Frist, maintenance is likely going to cost WAY more than 1% of income.  That would be $5.35 to $5.75 per month.  Even if these units were brand new, the maintenance over the first couple years would likely be much higher. High rent or low rent, mechanical systems cost the same to rent so in areas of cheap rent, maintenance fees will be a much higher percentage of rent.  A new 3 tab asphalt shingle roof cost roughly the same for a 1000sf home in Taft that rents for $600 or a 1000sf home near the coast that rents for $2400.

    I have some older homes and some years, maintenance and repairs can exceed my total gross income on a particular home.  I have enough properties that it is covered by others.  

    I see this underestimated all the time.  But having just completed income tax returns in the past month the real world expenses are fresh on my mind.

    Second, I would study the rental market in that specific neighborhood.  Talk to as many people that live near the subject property as you can. Do a rent survey, call on online listings (hotpads.com, CL), call local newspaper for rent ads, and drive for rent signs.  This will give you confidence in knowing what you can get in terms of rent, and what you can expect in terms of vacancy and turnover.  

  • San Jose, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    @Allison Escovedo The current "manager" is not even earning her $75.  I think you should only keep her as a tenant, if she pays the rent.  She had every opportunity to earn her $75 and didn't perform.  so, she needs to be fired as a manager.

    And, because she's thought of herself as a manager of the building, she'll probably end up being a problem because of ego, etc.  So, prepare yourself for having to get rid of her, too.

    I'd start out by telling her you are going to manage it yourself, and she will no longer get the $75.  See how it goes after that regarding kicking her out or not.

    Make yourself the point of contact, is my recommendation.  She complained to you about the price of the rents, and that no other places ask for deposits, which can't possibly be true.  In other words, she's trying to justify why she hasn't gotten the units rented, even though she's being paid to do so.  

    People are trying to be nice and helpful here to you, because this is your first deal.  They've given you reasons to think twice.  I can see that it could work for you - but only if you manage it wisely.  So, I encourage you, nicely, to not pay this woman who is obviously not a manager.  And see if she's even a decent tenant.  But, it's quite possible that she is the reason that nobody wants to live in that building.  Maybe more so than the fact that she has left units empty.

    I'm just saying, I don't believe in the benefit of the doubt.  Especially in business relationships.

  • Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2011 · 355 posts · 90 votes
    10y

    You're about to lose a bunch of money on this building. Trust me. In my mind, the numbers are horrible, there's likely a ton of deferred maintenance, it's been poorly managed, etc. The two vacancies are likely your best tenants.

    The reality is that right now there is about $1150/mo in scheduled income, because two units are rented. If the other two units were easy to rent, then they wouldn't be vacant. Don't pay the seller for all the work YOU are going to put into it. You pay for the building as it is now, which is crappy.

    Let's say it was completely fixed up, you've done all the work, spent all the money to fix it up, and gotten new tenants (probably 4 new ones, to be honest). Then you'll have a building which is still only bringing in around $2300, which is probably an annual net of $14,000 or so. In which case it's worth $140k at a 10% cap rate, and that's AFTER all the hard work and headache. You don't need to pay the seller for all the hard work you're going to have to do.

    You're going to have to put $50k into this project. Offer them $120k and if they don't take it, just walk away. Sadly, if you walk away you won't know how lucky you got. But if you take it, you'll regret it.

  • Investor · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Michael D.:

    You're about to lose a bunch of money on this building. Trust me. In my mind, the numbers are horrible, there's likely a ton of deferred maintenance, it's been poorly managed, etc. The two vacancies are likely your best tenants.

    The reality is that right now there is about $1150/mo in scheduled income, because two units are rented. If the other two units were easy to rent, then they wouldn't be vacant. Don't pay the seller for all the work YOU are going to put into it. You pay for the building as it is now, which is crappy.

    Let's say it was completely fixed up, you've done all the work, spent all the money to fix it up, and gotten new tenants (probably 4 new ones, to be honest). Then you'll have a building which is still only bringing in around $2300, which is probably an annual net of $14,000 or so. In which case it's worth $140k at a 10% cap rate, and that's AFTER all the hard work and headache. You don't need to pay the seller for all the hard work you're going to have to do.

    You're going to have to put $50k into this project. Offer them $120k and if they don't take it, just walk away. Sadly, if you walk away you won't know how lucky you got. But if you take it, you'll regret it.

     I agree with you Michael on your assessment of LOSING money with this building.

    I will offer even lower.

    If the property is worth $140K - when it's fixed up and performing and it will take $50K to get there, my offer will be $70K and the max I will go is $90K. If the seller does not take it, I will just walk away. It's not worth all the time and trouble.

  • Real Estate Agent · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 6 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Roger Leonard:

    @Allison Escovedo BTW, If you continue to look into the 4 unit, try and figure out why two of the units are not rented. Is it because of the economy, are they seasonal, need work, over priced? Can you remedy the reason or is it beyond your control? Answering that question will help you decide. In my case, the guy I purchased from "could not keep the unit rented". Why? The A/C unit was 30 years old! New A/c unit, paint, carpet, problem solved. 

    Thank you Roger for your comment! The current PM said its because the work is seasonal - farming - the landlord took weeks to respond to maintenance requests, and there are cheaper units that don't require a deposit on the block. We can't change the fact that the work is seasonal- and that is a major concern of mine. This whole neighborhood only appeals to one type of tenant- a migrant farm worker- and that's what it's FULL of. Interesting anecdote about the guy who "could not keep it rented" you would think that that would be common sense about the A/C unit! Goes to show that calling "For Rent" signs and asking if the landlord is interested in selling definitely could work as a strategy! Thank you again for your input and advice! 

  • Real Estate Agent · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 6 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Gene Hacker:

    @Allison Escovedo You have gotten a lot of really good advice.  I would just add a couple things.  

    Frist, maintenance is likely going to cost WAY more than 1% of income.  That would be $5.35 to $5.75 per month.  Even if these units were brand new, the maintenance over the first couple years would likely be much higher. High rent or low rent, mechanical systems cost the same to rent so in areas of cheap rent, maintenance fees will be a much higher percentage of rent.  A new 3 tab asphalt shingle roof cost roughly the same for a 1000sf home in Taft that rents for $600 or a 1000sf home near the coast that rents for $2400.

    I have some older homes and some years, maintenance and repairs can exceed my total gross income on a particular home.  I have enough properties that it is covered by others.  

    I see this underestimated all the time.  But having just completed income tax returns in the past month the real world expenses are fresh on my mind.

    Second, I would study the rental market in that specific neighborhood.  Talk to as many people that live near the subject property as you can. Do a rent survey, call on online listings (hotpads.com, CL), call local newspaper for rent ads, and drive for rent signs.  This will give you confidence in knowing what you can get in terms of rent, and what you can expect in terms of vacancy and turnover.  

     Thank you for your comment Gene! Maintenance is 1% of purchase price for the year! So purchase price *.01 /12 per month. Which equates to about $1700 per year. The owner says the roof is newer, so hopefully we wouldn't have to replace that soon, but these are all things we need to consider. Are most of your rentals in Bakersfield or at the coast? We have been focusing our search in Bakersfield, but this 4 unit in Taft had better numbers than anything we've found locally. Thank you again for your advice and input! 

  • Gene HackerPro Member
    Flipper/Rehabber · Lake Isabella, CA · Member since 2011 · 969 posts · 488 votes
    10y

    @Allison Escovedo ,  All of my rentals are in the communities surrounding Lake Isabella.  

  • Real Estate Agent · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 6 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Allison Escovedo The current "manager" is not even earning her $75.  I think you should only keep her as a tenant, if she pays the rent.  She had every opportunity to earn her $75 and didn't perform.  so, she needs to be fired as a manager.

    And, because she's thought of herself as a manager of the building, she'll probably end up being a problem because of ego, etc.  So, prepare yourself for having to get rid of her, too.

    I'd start out by telling her you are going to manage it yourself, and she will no longer get the $75.  See how it goes after that regarding kicking her out or not.

    Make yourself the point of contact, is my recommendation.  She complained to you about the price of the rents, and that no other places ask for deposits, which can't possibly be true.  In other words, she's trying to justify why she hasn't gotten the units rented, even though she's being paid to do so.  

    People are trying to be nice and helpful here to you, because this is your first deal.  They've given you reasons to think twice.  I can see that it could work for you - but only if you manage it wisely.  So, I encourage you, nicely, to not pay this woman who is obviously not a manager.  And see if she's even a decent tenant.  But, it's quite possible that she is the reason that nobody wants to live in that building.  Maybe more so than the fact that she has left units empty.

    I'm just saying, I don't believe in the benefit of the doubt.  Especially in business relationships.

     Thank you Sue. Definitely some good things to think about. We are going to counteroffer quite low (like 100k lower) as that is what we think we could make it work at. There are just too many risks and the margins are too slim to continue with this deal. You are definitely wise in saying don't give people the benefit of the doubt in business relationships - for the most part, everyone is out for their best interest. And she has a pretty sweet deal making $75 per month doing absolutely nothing. Thank you again for your advice and input! 

  • Real Estate Agent · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 6 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Michael D.:

    You're about to lose a bunch of money on this building. Trust me. In my mind, the numbers are horrible, there's likely a ton of deferred maintenance, it's been poorly managed, etc. The two vacancies are likely your best tenants.

    The reality is that right now there is about $1150/mo in scheduled income, because two units are rented. If the other two units were easy to rent, then they wouldn't be vacant. Don't pay the seller for all the work YOU are going to put into it. You pay for the building as it is now, which is crappy.

    Let's say it was completely fixed up, you've done all the work, spent all the money to fix it up, and gotten new tenants (probably 4 new ones, to be honest). Then you'll have a building which is still only bringing in around $2300, which is probably an annual net of $14,000 or so. In which case it's worth $140k at a 10% cap rate, and that's AFTER all the hard work and headache. You don't need to pay the seller for all the hard work you're going to have to do.

    You're going to have to put $50k into this project. Offer them $120k and if they don't take it, just walk away. Sadly, if you walk away you won't know how lucky you got. But if you take it, you'll regret it.

     Thank you Michael. I agree with you- the numbers are slim and they just keep seem to be getting slimmer! I think we are going to offer $70k and just see what the owner says, not wanting to pay more than 100k for the property. There are way too many risks with the vacancies and deferred maintenance to make it work at the original price. Thank you for your advice and input! I really appreciate hearing from both sides of the spectrum- some saying "you could make it work" others saying "run away!" but overall the tone is pretty pessimistic about this deal at the current price. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 6 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Wendell De Guzman:
    Originally posted by @Michael D.:

    You're about to lose a bunch of money on this building. Trust me. In my mind, the numbers are horrible, there's likely a ton of deferred maintenance, it's been poorly managed, etc. The two vacancies are likely your best tenants.

    The reality is that right now there is about $1150/mo in scheduled income, because two units are rented. If the other two units were easy to rent, then they wouldn't be vacant. Don't pay the seller for all the work YOU are going to put into it. You pay for the building as it is now, which is crappy.

    Let's say it was completely fixed up, you've done all the work, spent all the money to fix it up, and gotten new tenants (probably 4 new ones, to be honest). Then you'll have a building which is still only bringing in around $2300, which is probably an annual net of $14,000 or so. In which case it's worth $140k at a 10% cap rate, and that's AFTER all the hard work and headache. You don't need to pay the seller for all the hard work you're going to have to do.

    You're going to have to put $50k into this project. Offer them $120k and if they don't take it, just walk away. Sadly, if you walk away you won't know how lucky you got. But if you take it, you'll regret it.

     I agree with you Michael on your assessment of LOSING money with this building.

    I will offer even lower.

    If the property is worth $140K - when it's fixed up and performing and it will take $50K to get there, my offer will be $70K and the max I will go is $90K. If the seller does not take it, I will just walk away. It's not worth all the time and trouble.

    Thank you Wendell. After reading all these comments, I agree with you. We are going to offer 70k and see what he says! I'll keep everyone updated on this post as to our next steps. Thank you again for your advice and input! 

  • Investor · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2015 · 161 posts · 46 votes
    10y

    You seem to know the local economic climate well, good job.on that, as it helps determine the kind of tenant a d rates you can charge.  I can see this is a thoughtful endeavor.  Why did you decide on Taft rather than Bakersfield?

  • Real Estate Agent · Bakersfield, CA · Member since 2016 · 41 posts · 6 votes
    10y
    Russ Beck thank you for your comment!! This Taft property has better number than any property we've seen in Bakersfield. With that there are more risks though as Taft's economy isn't as diversified as Bakersfield's.
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.