Cheyenne, WY 7 Unit Apartment Complex

Cheyenne, WY 7 Unit Apartment Complex

Rental Property Investor · WY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 221 votes

On December 2, I closed on a 7 unit apartment building. When I made the offer, I saw a lot of things, but the two most common were disaster and potential. Due to the size of the place, the insane income numbers, and the way that the first 6 days of ownership have gone, I figure i'd do a deal diary. I'm hoping to update this every 3 months or so.

This was an on-market deal that I found, owned by a guy who had inherited it from his father in law. He was absolutely done, and did not want anything else to do with the property. It is in rough shape, and comes with the types of tenants that will put up with the extremely poor condition that the  property was in. However, the income numbers were good, the location was good, and it's got a huge upside. I decided to go for it. Time will tell if I'm a fool or a genius.

Deal Stats

Purchase  Price: 160,000

Down Payment: 40,000

Gross rents (when full) 3,040

I closed late in the afternoon friday, dec 2 and decided to pick up the serious work of finding a property manager and dealing with the utilities on Monday.

Monday began with calls to the utilities, informing me that the seller was paying ALL utilities (they told me that I'd be paying water/sewer/trash and electric only for all units). In addition, the kind folks at the water department told me the building used 60,000 gallons of water last month, which was exceptionally high compared to its average use of 40,000 gallons. I grew up here in the Western US, and not only is that devouring my margins, there's not a lot of water here to waste and that's practically criminal. I dont know how many gallons per month an efficient 7 unit would use, but I can assure you I'll come close to finding out during this turn. After getting all the utilities in order, I started calling property managers. I called between 15 and 20, and many took a day or two to call me back (tossed, unresponsive) a few said they'd go drive by, and called back after and said they were not interested due to the condition. There was one willing to work on it, and this group has a broker with a background in house flipping. I set up a meeting for thursday morning for a walk through and tour of the 2 vacant units.

I met the property mangement broker, assistant and both maintenance guys, and went to let them in the first vacant unit. I knocked (I dont know why) and someone said "one minute". The tenant I believe was pretty shocked to see me, as I was him. I was under the impression that the unit was vacant. We chatted with him a bit, and he produced a lease, as well as receipt for payment for rent in december (Which I was told was not collected). He also informed me that the stove in his units (as well as 5 others in the building) were not functioning. We thanked him for his time, and went into the crows nest (the studio apartment at the very top) and looked around. They agreed to provide a bid for me for the work, and we went downstairs to check the mechanicals.

We spent a bit of time downstairs with the mechanicals, and discussed the strategy that I had laid out to widen the spread between income and expenses on this property, as well as a "Please do this asap" list I had prepared. Here's what was on it:

  1. Collect December rents
  2. New leases for all tenants - month to month - (except the new one, who is on a 3 month lease), that has the tenants paying the Gas portion of the utility bill for their unit.
  3. Replace a few broken windows and siding as required by the insurance company
  4. Efficiency upgrades
    1. Water: Things like new toilets, faucet aerators and showerheads
    2. Lights: LEDs are about the only think I can directly impact here.
  5. Implement a RUBS for the water/sewer portion of the bill at some point in 2017

They were on board with the plan, and were happy to help and excited for the project. I went over and signed the agreement (3 years, 10% PM fee) at around 1130, dropped my daughter off at school and went to work.

Then all hell broke loose. 

I get a call from the seller - apparently he's got the rent check from the new tenant, and he'll drop it by tomorrow, but none of the other rents have been collected. The person who was living in the crows nest (seriously, so gross) who they had to have civilly committed to get out was living in one of the other units with some guy, and I should under no circumstances let her move back into the crows nest, and she will ask. I was also informed that unit 7 was now empty (this is currently pending verification) . I thank him for the time, and start working again.

A few minutes later, the gas company calls. Someone is in the mechanical room in the basement, says there's a gas leak and I need to get over there right away. I ask if he's serious as I was in there less than 3 hours prior and didnt notice anything. He says he is. I call up the property manager, tell them the situation and they send someone over to get the keys to the building and head over. I dont hear from them for a while, then an hour or so later I get a call saying I got red-tagged by the city. The property manager has an HVAC Guy already on site, and they are dealing with some sort of backdraft issue that is filling the area with carbon monoxide, and there's a gas leak somewhere. Still unsure as to how it happened and who told the utility, but that is an issue for another day. 

So, an interesting first 6 days of ownership on the 7 unit building. I did get some good news from the property manager that my estimated rents after the units were turned were low by a fair bit, which is awesome. 

Stay tuned for update 2.

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Jerry W.Pro Member
Moderator
Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
9y

@Jeff F., I am really enjoying this thread.  Keep us posted.  Let me know if I can be of any help.  That probably sounds better than it is since I have a full time day job and about 30 rental units.  For what it is worth WY has one of the best eviction laws.  I think I average about 10 days from filing to court date and Writ of Restitution.  Total costs average about $600 to $800 per eviction including costs.  I could not help you in Cheyenne, but it may give you an idea of costs.  Legal costs may vary a lot there, so shop around if you get high quotes.  If the other side gets an attorney costs could also go up and things could get delayed.

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  • Rental Property Investor · WY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 221 votes
    8y

    hi @Sam Rust -

    I did an interim refi on the property that finished in january. I had a tenant leave (abandon) the property as well that month. Things are a bit tight, so I think i'll have to have some upgrade work paused for a bit while I build up a bit more capital and get some units full. 

    Right now, I've got 3 completely rehabbed, and 2 of those are rented, with one still vacant (its tough here in the winter), and i've got another unit almost finished rehabbed (should be done mid-late feb) and one unit in complete disarray & needing some significant work. That makes 5, and the other 2 are occupied by inherited tenants, who I am content to leave in there as long as possible until i finish the other units. 

    Hopefully I'll have a bit more time to share more in a bit. 

  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    @Jeff F., Thanks for the update.

  • Rental Property Investor · WY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 221 votes
    8y

    A much needed update:

    Im starting to get this thing back to the point of profitability, instead of just at a point where I'm not LOSING a ton of money every month. 

    I have completed rehab on 3 units.  There are 2 units that I have rehabbed that are filled with tenants. There is 1 unit that is rehabbed and is empty.

    Rehab is actively happening in one unit (the one that was abandoned in January). It should be done by March 1 or close to that.

    Demo has happened in one unit, and it needs a significant amount of work. I'd like to do some/most of that myself, as it's quite expensive. Im hoping I can get some time to do that in a while. 

    That makes 5 Units, The other 2 are still full of inherited tenants. 

    After the one that's almost finished is completed, i'm going to have work done on some more of the common areas, etc. It appears as though I WAY under-estimated the rehab costs. So much of what was done early on was unfocused and slow. That was my fault. I also didnt really consider improvements that were needed on the exterior of the building when figuring my rehab costs (ie, 28k worth of windows/siding). I also was planing on doing a lot of work myself, until I realized I did not have time and the building would slowly bleed me dry prior to me getting anything completed, no matter how much money it saved me. There was/is a lot of slop in this deal, but I'm beginning to wonder if I'll be able to successfully BRRRR this building. Right now, i've got 30k into it, and am carrying a bit of debt (even after the refi) from some of the rehab that i'm doing and have done. I'll need to get this thing profitable (not counting the rehab costs) for a while so that I can walk away from this with at least some cash.

    I had initially put the value at 380-415k. I was able to rent the first rehabbed unit for a nice price that subsequently made me feel better about the valuation (higher than I had guessed) but the one that's currently empty is not going for anywhere near what I had hoped, and the property manager is pushing me to go even lower - which will kill the final valuation (and my BRRRR) if I go too much lower (i had figured on 575 I think, and the PM wants me to go to 475).

    While I am not quite ready to worry yet, I do see how important it is to estimate rehab costs accurately, because if there wasnt a huge amount of margin in this deal, I would be sunk. I am still worried about not being able to walk off with any cash, but if the worst case scenario at the end of this investment is something that's putting off about 1200/mo after expenses in 2 years, that's not exactly the worst thing in the world. 

    Hoping to get the studio rented soon, as well as the one that's currently under construction. Below are a few photos from how the unit was left, and 1 photo of an original (unstained) wood floor in the unit that was under the carpet. The hardwood in other units was painted over (wtf).

  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    Hey @Jeff F., thanks for the update.  By the way I cannot see your pictures and cannot open them.  Your first big deal on projects like this are always a learning curve.  What you have learned here is invaluable.  As to renting, January and February are horrible moths to rent properties in WY.  Now if you cannot rent the properties in May or June you need to lower prices.  What ever you do, don't get desperate and put someone in who doesn't meet your criteria.  It will cost you more in the long run.  Keep uo the good work.  I got up to go work on a duplex at 5:30 this morning on my 3 day weekend.  There is a price you pay in this business, but in the end run you will be far ahead of those who just wish things would happen.

  • Accountant · Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2017 · 409 posts · 362 votes
    8y

    fantastic thread I can't wait for more updates. Hopefully it works out for you. 

  • Rental Property Investor · WY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 221 votes
    8y

    April Update:

    Good news this month. The studio that has been ready to go since jan 1 or so is finally leased, so i'm no longer carrying that. It went for a bit less than I had hoped, but that is what it is. 

    Unit 5 also was finished, and leased within the week. Seems like things are on the up swing. 

    I'm organizing my pictures of all units, and will post in a bit. Apparently some are having issues.

    I'm also losing one of the better inherited tenants through attrition, which will give me a bit of time to take a break and get the rehab started in there or just wait. 

  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    @Jeff F., excellent news.  Things are starting to move here as well.  As summer comes in renting will get even easier.  Thanks for the update.  If I get to Cheyenne this summer I will try to give you a shout.

  • Rental Property Investor · WY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 221 votes
    8y

    Another Update:

    Spring leasing season picked up quite quickly in Cheyenne, so after sitting on a studio apartment for 3 months and dropping the price by 75/month, I was able to get that rented. In the same week, the Abandoned unit was also completed and leased, leaving me with 4 units that have been turned and leased, 1 existing tenant, 1 empty and 1 currently under rehab.

    I've spent a lot of the last few months getting everything together and getting some of the common areas done - stairs painted and kept up, etc. While those have not brought a direct ROI, they do look much better and make it easier for the tenants.

    #5 was able to rent for what I had figured, and it went so quick that I will likely go for a higher price point on the one under construction than I have tried for in the past. I'm a bit behind on my estimates (approx 125/mo) based on an early penciling of the numbers and I think a lot of that was due to things going for so much lower in the winter than in the summer. I decided to take a bit lower rent and a shorter term lease (so I could correct the issue) this summer.

    Plan at this point is to finish the rehab and get everything rented out, then likely refinance into a longer term loan and hopefully i'll be able to pull all of my cash out of the deal. if I cant pull it ALL out, but still can pull out some i'll consider it a win. To have about 10-20k of my own money into a property worth approx 400k sounds alright to me.

    I looked through a few of my old posts, and I was taking calls and dealing with issues on this place what seemed like every day for 3 months. I'm glad to report that is no longer the case and Im glad that I dont have to spend nearly as much time as I did - now it's just spending money. 

    I'm starting to see some checks from the property manager which is nice, but I know it pales in comparison to what I've put in to this point. Im itching to get my cash out of this project and move on to another project, but need to be patient. at this time in 2016, i owned no real estate and now I have a 4 unit, a 7 unit and a SFH that will be turned into a rental.

  • Rental Property Investor · WY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 221 votes
    8y

    Another update on the property:

    The last 2 units I leased 2 months ago would have been better off had I sat on them. The prices were so short compared to what I can get now, im pretty bummed. Such is life. One of them is a 6 month lease, but the other is a year. 

    All of the common areas are done (save for one that will be done next week), and that will likely be the last of the things I need to do to the building (yard is another story) that wont provide a direct return. I'd like to do the yard, fence & windows, so that I'll have a higher quality property that will attract higher quality tenants. 

    I've just got one more finished and everyone is telling me to market it way higher than I thought (it's way bigger than i remember) and that number alone (Pending i get it) will get me back on track to the appraised value I would like. 

    I've also given my final inherited tenant notice that I will not be renewing their lease, so they will be gone 7/31. 

    The big news this time is the property manager. I hired them right after I closed and thought we worked together well. go back to my posts in mid-2017 and I had some issues about the speed at which they fixed things, so I fired them as a contractor and kept them as a PM, which i thought they were good at.

    At the end of april, I got an email from the broker saying she was resigning because of an investigation and that the next day would be her last day. A few days later, I talk to the owner of the firm (not the same person) and he said he'd transferred all his clients and basically "merged" with another broker in town who can manage these properties. Very confused, I said ok and moved on. 

    Then the old property manger called, and it turns out she didnt really get along well with the owner, and they had a major disagreement. She wanted to open her own firm and wanted to know if I was interested in going with her. I was because I thought that everything had gone pretty good since she was managing my property, and told her to call me when she got set up. I didnt hear anything for a bit so I called her. Eventually we got to talking about what she needed to start, and she started listing things like "an office and a phone line" (......) and I asked flat out how much she needed, because I was willing to give her a portion of it. the amount wasnt much, so I told her to send me a business plan and id look at it. 

    I was hearing a different story of financial impropriety from the new property manager, and when I called the state real estate comission to figure out if anything was actually being investigated, he gave my typical cop speak and said "i cant speak to that" about 100 times. it was frustrating, because all I wanted to know was 'is this person full of ****'. I didnt get that. They basically just told me I'd know when/if something got forwarded on to the real estate commission or the police. Not super helpful when someone wants cash now and is offering an equity stake for something I feel like I could add value to. 

    One thing I realized from this is that I have a LOT of good friends. I had a few phone calls and conversations with good friends about the opportunity of investing in a new business, and what the risks were as well as what I thought could happen. I even had a call with the wonderful @Mindy Jensen who gave me a lot of great things to consider. 

    I ended up not investing in the venture because the HINT of financial impropriety (and the new PM saying they need a forensic accountant) was enough to give me pause. 

    So I ended up going with the new firm instead of the old broker, and I'm regretting it. Because of BP, I feel like I'm better at managing properties than they are, and so far I've gotten 2 calls about missed payments and they've had my account for 2 months. Both of those calls were today, and that plus an email that has taken 36+ hrs to respond to has really made me regret signing them.

  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    Hey Jeff,

    No one will really care for your property like you.  That being said 36 hours to respond to an email isn't great, but was it something urgent or something of a much lower priority?  In business it would be great to answer every call, email or text immediately, but reality sometimes you just go with what is the biggest problem and work down from there.  If they work out it does hurt your income stream, but can make your life much easier.  One thing I would make sure of is that they have a strong online presence or advertizing for your property.  I am old school, but rent probably 80% of my properties through online advertizing in local facebook groups.  I will keep trying to look you up when I go through Cheyenne sometime, it seems I am always in a hurry when I pass through lately.

  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    Hey Jeff,

    How are things going in your apartment building?

  • Rental Property Investor · WY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 221 votes
    8y

    Hey All - Time for another update:

    As for the physical condition of the units, I've got 5 of them turned and are rented. One went for $75/mo higher than I'd budgeted and 2 went for $50 or so lower each, so I'm a bit behind. I'm working on correcting that for one of the tenants, but the other one is a year lease and creating problems, so I may have an opportunity there. I was also able to rent the shed to the coworker for $60/month, so I'm pretty excited to have that extra bit of cashflow for the appraisal (which I hope will be soon).

    The unit with all the kitchen/plumbing issues is almost done - it needed floor joist work and a new wall, so that got expensive quick, but they are wrapping up paint and putting the floor on, so hopefully that one will be ready for rent in 2-3 weeks. We are likely going to get into a slow time here in cheyenne, and I'd like to get everything going before that. Hopefully this will be ready and I'll be able to sneak someone in there. I wont go for the appraisal until the entire building is turned & full, but because of the shed Im going to be in a good spot I think. That extra $60 a month wont do much for cash flow but will be huge when the appraiser comes back. 

    There should be a new unit getting filled this week. Im a bit curious as to where the property manager is finding these tenants and also what they are doing, because it sat EMPTY all of june and all of july and half of august, after going with the rate they suggested then dropping it twice. Not happy about that, and coupled with other issues, i'm seriously contemplating taking this over myself. 

    I mentioned in the last update the tenant was supposed to be out 7/31. Well the property manager sent them a letter, and they were supposed to be out 7/22 instead. these were my LAST inherited tenants from the old owner (ones from the property managers are another story) and i knew what would happen. I called the PM the week before, to make sure they were on top of it. I wanted them out, and they said ok, they'd take care of it. Nothing...call every day the next week....tenants giving them the run-around, and they are eating it up. heard the following from the PM

    • tenant wasnt home/didnt answer the door (of course not)
    • she'll bring by the keys before 5 tomorrow
    • her help stood her up, so she'll be done tomorrow. 
    • she's almost finished, will be by later this afternoon.
    • your lease non-renewal letter is "not a legal document according to my attorney" (She did not have an attorney and yes it IS a legal document)

    those excuses went on for a week, then I told them get her out. They say ok, it's friday and if shes not out we will start eviction on monday....I call, i get "I dont know what's going on there" .... I email, i get no response. This goes on for a week. She obviously didnt remit rent for august (because she wasnt supposed to be there)...im checking with them every day, still getting no answer or 'insert tenant sob story' from the PM. I hired them so I didnt have to be the jerk....and they arent doing it. So....on Aug 8, I get my big boy pants on and walk over to the sheriffs office ($35 dollars, cash, exact change....) and file a 72 hour notice to get them out. They serve it the next day, but because I was doing nothing (ie, expecting the PM to do their job) she doesnt have to be out till monday, 8/13. At this point, she's 9 days away from 1 free month on me and im pissed. My contractor's pissed because somethings leaking in her unit and he cant keep working on the unit underneath until he figures that out. Finally this morning, no sign of her, no activity. 

    She's gone, but has moved almost nothing (but the 10+ cats she had). there is trash EVERYWHERE, contractor estimates 1 rollaway. Whatever, at least she's gone. Pictures Below:

    For those still following, it was/is clear they had 0 intention of moving, at all, until they got the 72 hour notice. they had almost 2 months to pack and get stuff out of there and didnt. The PM let them, even when I was all over them about it. That was the last straw for the PM (And we are forgetting the fact that because of them, i've gotten 2 insurance cancellations and 4 late fees because they have not paid that bill since they took the property over). They also haven't signed a tenant to a new lease (with 6 weeks notice.........) and he's there month-to-month at the moment, at a lower rate then he should be. This agreement will be terminated for non-performance, and Im hoping I do not have to take it further than that. 

    as usual, that's not all...one day I get a call from contractor...'hey there's water everywhere in this basement unit' checks uptairs to recently vacated unit...it's coming from above....knocks on door above... "hey we need to check your sink" 
    response: "Oh the sink...yea it was leaking i fixed that".....
    The guy took the P TRAP off (For no one knows why - he was clearly on something) and let the water run. That unit has been done < 7 months and apparently it's "Trashed". Just another thing....

    So, that's the latest update from this place. I did have a fantastic tenant ask if I have some bigger spaces and I'd love to put them in that disaster pictured above when it's done, so I'm hoping to be able to make that happen.

    last thing to do is get the electrical switched over to self pay from the tenants. The part has been ordered but not arrived, and the work should be done soon. 

    Numbers for this are still looking good, and I'm hoping to have quite the refi in a few months. I dont want to jinx myself by posting them, but it's CRAZY to think that about 2 years later, i'm finally here. 

  • Realtor · Naples, FL · Member since 2017 · 29 posts · 2 votes
    8y

    That's crazy. It sounds like you've had some real trouble with your PMs.  If you had to do things different, what would you do?

  • Rental Property Investor · WY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 221 votes
    8y

    @Dave Peterson I would find a new PM. 

  • Rental Property Investor · WY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 221 votes
    8y

    Time for another update. I feel like I can finally see the light at the end of the tunnel. After the debacle with the holdover tenant (See trashed unit pictures above) I finally fired the property manager. They accepted precisely 0 responsibility for this, and basically blamed everything on the old property manager. I am certain the old property manager caused problems, but my main issue was they did absolutely nothing about getting a tenant that had overstayed their 30-day notice out. at the end of the day, I hired them to be the jerk and do stuff like that, and they couldnt be botherd to do it. 

    Property management contracts are not easy to get out of. I wrote a long email (to establish a paper trail) with the incidents where I thought they did not perform their job, Looked up a few statues and accused them of a few things that it would have been pretty easy to prove they did, had it come to that and sent it over. For those of you curious about what to include here's what I was told (i am not a lawyer, this is not legal advice)

    • name everyone, allege everything
    • site state statues
    • tell them when to respond by

    That was more or less it, and as expected, they basically ignored most of my complaints, and didnt respond by the deadline I gave them. There are still a lot of unanswered questions and I know i'm down a bit of money. Typically I'd just write this off as the cost of doing business, thank whomever I feel is holy that i'm no longer chained to them and get moving. The fact that they accepted NO responsibility "I was trying my best to fix this mess from the old PM" and that they ignored the issues that I brought up that were clearly their fault has annoyed me, and I'm likely going to pursue this further. 

    On to the update. 

    I am now the manager of this property, and things are going much better. The units that I have had filled by property managers have taken approximately a total of 8 months for 3 units. This is approximately 2500 of lost revenue, and most of them filled for lower than I had hoped/thought they would. 

    Because of the way things worked, I had a recently turned unit come open around the same time that 2 leases were coming up. I offered both tenants the option to stay at a raised rate and both declined. Well that just meant that Now I had 3 units in the same building and based on the success of the property manager, I was kind of worried. What if I couldnt fill them? How long could I sit on this (hint: With the rehab costs, not long). So, I decided to raise rents on all the units by $25 per month, based on my limited experience at my other properties and see what happened. I budgeted (very conservatively) for 600/mo for the 1 bedrooms in the building. 

    I Put them up on zillow and let my systems start getting people in the door (I use a combo of canned responses in gmail & calendly). Immediately, I Was overwhelmed with calendar appointments & showings. I filled those 3 units, as well as another unit I manage in town in 4 days, at a higher rate than the property manager said I'd be able to get. I do not know what took them so long, but obviously it seems they were not terribly effective. I had someone move in over the weekend, as well as leases in place for 2 that are ending on september 25th. That experience just solidified my desire for not hiring a property manager (caveat: When I first bought it - I needed one) and for systems. 

    Everything there is now running smoothly, and the contractor has moved into the final unit of the building and started painting and everything.  That's the last one, and I'll probably put a few things in there (ie a dishwasher) that the other units wont get. Im also thinking (at 13 properties) that im getting big enough to need some 'standby' appliances in case some go bad. Anyone have any thoughts on when to make that happen or what level you need to be at?

    I'll report some final numbers later (including costs) but my initial numbers for ARV were 390k - 410k. It looks like it's going to come in at 4700-5000 per month in gross rents, so it looks like my initial numbers were a bit low. Hopefully, this will give me enough cash to pay off all the debt im carrying related to this (it's an f-ton, and it's almost all high interest/credit cards at this point) and walk away with a little extra cash.

    refinance paperwork was started today, though they (as usual) need more. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 476 posts · 294 votes
    8y

    @Jeff F.  What's the target date for refi?

  • Rental Property Investor · WY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 221 votes
    8y
    @Sam B. Hi Sam - im in the process of gathering and submitting the paperwork now. I'm hoping by Halloween to have a wrap on this.
  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    8y

    @Jeff F., good to hear from you again.  Good luck on the refi, especially if your last apartment is not finished and rented.  Hopefully the property manager did not invoke a pay till the end of the contract clause on you when you fired them.  If so call me and we can brainstorm on it.  I am glad things are going so well.  I would like to hear in more detail how you did your online advertising.  I am used to using Facebook groups to rent, like local Buy Sale Trade groups etc.

    @Jeff F., good to hear from you again.  Good luck on the refi, especially if your last apartment is not finished and rented.  Hopefully the property manager did not invoke a pay till the end of the contract clause on you when you fired them.  If so call me and we can brainstorm on it.  I am glad things are going so well.  I would like to hear in more detail how you did your online advertising.  I am used to using Facebook groups to rent, like local Buy Sale Trade groups etc. but have never used Calendly.  I have used Zillow, but have only rented from it 2 times and had dozens of scam/scum type responses.  Anyway good job and hang in there.

  • Rental Property Investor · WY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 221 votes
    8y

    @Jerry W. - 

    They did not invoke such a clause, and if they had, I dont think it would have mattered - They still owe me money because of their poor performance, which I am still trying to negotiate with them. I've been able to stem the losses (they were causing) but now I need them to pay me damages. 

  • Rental Property Investor · AZ · Member since 2013 · 213 posts · 50 votes
    7y

    Hey @Jeff F., how is the refi going?

  • Rental Property Investor · WY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 221 votes
    7y
    @Michelle Y. Still in process. Appraisals are a month out and as I was telling @jerry w. A few weeks ago I've got more stories. I did 3 evictions in 2 5 months.
  • Rental Property Investor · AZ · Member since 2013 · 213 posts · 50 votes
    7y

    Wow, @Jeff F. sorry to hear about the evictions. Looking forward to that story. 

  • Rental Property Investor · WY · Member since 2016 · 243 posts · 221 votes
    7y

    New Update: 

    I was feeling pretty good about myself for filling 3 of those units in this building last time. That, of course, did not last long. One tenant backed out after becoming non-communicative when I sent the lease and asked for the deposit. 

    One tenant had already paid, and the person occupying the unit that she was supposed to get declined to leave. I filed the 72 hour notice almost immediately and even offered him $250. None of that was enough to budge him, and he ended up overstaying his welcome by a week. He got NOTHING out, and I had to pay quite a bit to get it de-junked & cleaned.  The cleaners didnt do a good job, and after almost 2 weeks with a very patient future tenant, she decided that she didnt want to bother with this place anymore (I do NOT blame her) so I let her out of the lease before she moved in. 

    So after being quite pleased with myself for filling 3 units in 3 days, All of the sudden I had 1 tenant move in, and was looking at one tenant moving out and wanting to break the lease they signed. All of the sudden, my revenue was cut by about 60% and my expenses were the same. Since there's been so much ongoing rehab, and EVERYTHING is more expensive, im starting to run low on funds (again). 

    I was able to re-lease the 2 that ended up not getting filled (at a slightly higher rate) which is good and will help with the appraisal, but it's not all sunshine and roses.

    I had a tenant in one of the units remove some of the plumbing in the shower (do not ask me why) and started to cause some water damage in the units below him. Thankfully, it was caught early, but after that (the 2nd time) and the rent check for him never coming, he got evicted. I'm working now with my insurance company to file a claim. He didnt provide renters insurance as he was supposed to, so now i've got to deal with all of this on my own, plus im out a tenant right at refi time. Unfortunately, that didnt matter because that guy will cause more damage than value he can add and is a total operational liability. While he didnt get out within the 72 hours he was supposed to, he was a few days behind so that was good enough. 

    So out of ALL The tenants my property manager put in, there is 2 left, and the ones that are gone, all 3 had to be evicted, and all 3 overstayed their 72 hour notice. this is the "fun" part of being a landlord that you always read about. 

    2 of the 3 were in brand new rehabbed units, and both caused some fairly significant damage, and one unit may be a total loss, as far as flooring is concerned. This is very upsetting to me - mainly with the property manager. They watched me sink tens of thousands of dollars into this building, and then after I had done so, found AWFUL tenants at rents BELOW what i told them they could accept, who were then kind enough to do significant damage and otherwise not take care of the property, causing more losses. 

    Lesson here is that NO ONE is going to care for your investment as much as you are. 

    Second lesson is that your problems with tenants are taken care of on the front end through good screening

    Overall, im OK with where the building is at the moment. I've got 5/7 units full, one of those is currently being rehabbed (albeit slower than I wanted because it was damaged by the "plumber" living above it) and the one that just had an eviction. Everyone knows me and is communicating well, and has been paying on time. 

    Hopefully, now that the difficult work is likely or mostly done, I can get back to getting this thing in shape for an appraisal. based on the bank & timelines from the appraisers, it likely wont end up with cash in my pocket until January, which sucks because im carrying a TON of debt related to the property, and most of it at this point has gone on credit cards.

  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    @Jeff F., thanks for the tour.  It was nice of you to show me the place while I was there for a conference.  I can sympathize on the tenant problem.  I have a very nice duplex that is very lean on cash flow, in part because I got it for no money down.  I lost tenants slowly as rent moved up.  When I lost the last tenant I hoped to get a new one in less than a month.  It has now been over 3 months.  I have turned down the last 2 applicants who had the "cash" to move in right now.  I don't need the place trashed or other good tenants leaving over a bad tenant.  It is hard to tun down prospects when you start having multiple empties, but it really will save you in the long run.  Just this month I have had 3 VERY long term tenants in older houses give notice of moving out.  Each has bought their own house.  I don't know if it is the rising interest rates are making them move, or if it is our local market softening a bit.  (Which is bad for me).  Either way, it will hurt as extensive rehab will be needed so no showings right now and none until after the rehab, putting 4 units empty in November, and quite likely empty until March as the worst months are coming to rent.  The shortest tenant was there about 5 years, and the longest one for 12 years.  Carpet, painting, probably some fixtures, and possibly even a furnace one one unit.  Hang in there, just 4 months ago I was feeling good about having full occupancy.  It comes and goes hehe.  Hang in there Bud.

  • Rental Property Investor · Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 476 posts · 294 votes
    7y

    @Jeff F.  Everyone loves happy RE stories with just a drop of drama.  This is not one of those stories.

    That fact makes it all the more important to keep trudging forward, plugging leaks, learning and taking action.

    As @Jerry W. said, it comes and goes/there are highs and lows.  Making sure you don't get too high during the highs and too low during the lows is important.  Remaining fluid and constantly asking yourself "what is the action?" and knocking out the immediate road blocks while also picking-up some lessons learned on the way is the path forward.

    Looking forward to reading a confirmation of refi in a few months.

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