Hot market and a great SFH opportunity need strategy advice.

Hot market and a great SFH opportunity need strategy advice.

Engineer · San Jose, CA · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 2 votes

I am currently renting a 3 bedroom 1.5 bathroom house in the Silicon valley from my father in law for about 60% of the market rent for similar properties in the area. My father in law does not want to be in the landlord business and has always said he wants to sell the house to us. 

Houses in our area are comping for around 700K- 750K for a similar layout but the problem is they are in move in condition. My father in law has always done things about 70 percent and the house is currently in that semi unfinished state (I spent 5k just to have it cleaned and functional before I moved in). That being said I estimate there is about 30-50k worth of work to bring it up to the level of the comps in the area.

My wife and I are not rich but we have no debt, we have 250K in our retirement, I have a pension I am vested in and we have about money tied up in investments that we can if need be make liquid.

I have been working with a mortgage broker friend and he says we are golden to purchase anytime but I don't want to go the traditional route with 20% cash and here is the strategy question.  

My father in law owes about 300k on the house and with repairs closing costs and such give him about 350-370K in debt to sell it on the open market. If he does so under advice of my broker friend he can expect to sell it for 725k max (due to recent sales data). That leaves him with about 355-375k in profit. He will not roll this money into another property (no 1031) so he will have a tax bill on this of about 75K (20% is my understanding) leaving him with about 300k profit.

My father in law want to help us and his grandson stay in the area and is willing to be creative. So my plan is to have him gift us the 20% of the appraised value as our down (Appraisal will be done this week and looks like it will be around 650k) 130K and he is fine with that and we would get a traditional mortgage after that. It is my understanding if he gifts us equity there is a transfer tax on that, is that true? Also I understand the upper limit of tax free profit on your primary residence is 250k is that true. My father in law likes the number 250k and he is willing to sacrifice the 50K more he would make on the open market vs giving us some equity and helping us buy the house. Is there any other thoughts or strategies on this situation as I want everyone to win in this situation.

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Real Estate Agent · Garden City, NY · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
9y

@Francis Van Steen

Okay. So, if he lived in there before that for 2 years out of the last 5, then he should be able to have the Capital Tax exemption for $250,000 as a single person.

He should discuss the best options with a tax professional before doing anything.

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  • Real Estate Lender and Broker · Dallas, TX · Member since 2013 · 966 posts · 500 votes
    9y
    Originally posted by @Francis Van Steen:

     He will not roll this money into another property (no 1031) so he will have a tax bill on this of about 75K (20% is my understanding) leaving him with about 300k profit.

    Francis,

    Has your father in law taken depreciation on this property?  If so, he would need to pay depreciation recapture at 25%.  He would also be looking at paying California Capital Gains taxes.  That is somewhere around 12%.  He could owe more than the 20% you are mentioning.

    Mark

  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    9y

    Remember, the BANK is only lending you 80% of AS-IS value, right? ($650k x 80% = $520k).

    I calculate that your rough figures will look like this: It'll cost you ~$650k, so you'll need SOME of your own cash. ie. He gets $250k; repairs $50k; loan payout $300k; gift/CG tax $50k (or more?)

    Effectively, that's really only a 7.7% discount off its as-is value for you. PITI would be about $3,500/m. Together with its other ongoing ownership expenses, how does that compare to the 60% market rent you're currently paying? Cheers...

  • Engineer · San Jose, CA · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    @Mark Creason I did not account for depreciation and thank you for the capital gains info I am not a pro so most of my math is back of the envelope. I will have harder numbers in the next week or so and can really give a better snapshot.

  • Real Estate Agent · Garden City, NY · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Francis Van Steen

    Gifts of equity fall under gift tax. Your father in law would potentially be looking at gift tax, capital gains tax, as well as transfer tax on the sale. He would need to speak with a CPA about his potential tax issues.

    Since he's been renting out the property, he would need to have lived there 2 of the last 5 years in order to have a capital gain exemption ($250,000 for single, $500,000 married). So, if hasn't lived there in a long time, he would have to eat the capital gains.

    The other option would be to do seller financing. He sells the house to you, carries the note, your monthly payments go to pay down the mortgage he has remaining and some cash into his pocket. He avoids a lot of the tax consequences.

  • Accountant · Bethesda, MD · Member since 2017 · 63 posts · 34 votes
    9y

    @Francis Van Steen @Mark Creason

    IRS requires you to account for depreciation even if you do not actually take a deduction for it.

    "Basis adjustment for depreciation allowed or allowable. You must reduce the basis of property by the depreciation allowed or allowable, whichever is greater. Depreciation allowed is depreciation you actually deducted (from which you received a tax benefit). Depreciation allowable is depreciation you are entitled to deduct. If you do not claim depreciation you are entitled to deduct, you must still reduce the basis of the property by the full amount of depreciation allowable. If you deduct more depreciation than you should, you must reduce your basis by any amount deducted from which you received a tax benefit (the depreciation allowed)."

    https://www.irs.gov/publications/p946/ch01.html

  • Engineer · San Jose, CA · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    @Brent Coombs we would be paying more for the mortgage but receiving this house at a discount even at 7.7% I will be able to be a homeowner and add value to the less than complete house. We do not plan on living here for 30 years and I know not to bet on appreciation so I will do some value add to the house over time and expand it to a 4 bed 2.5 bath with less than a 40k investment, the layout will support it. Comps for 4 bed 2.5 baths in my area are in the 850k range today. So my thought at 70K total investment (30k deferred and 40k reno) will net me over 100k in todays money not including appreciation when I decide to sell around the 10 year mark also the equity stake in the property at that time. 

  • Engineer · San Jose, CA · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    @Christopher Phillips My father in law did live in the house before we moved in for well over 5 years, he is single so we are betting on him receiving the exemption. I appreciate the advice to run it by a CPA as we want everyone to win in this situation

  • Engineer · San Jose, CA · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    @Scott Davidson I appreciate the feed back and I do not know much about depreciation, how would I calculate it as i am versed in some real estate processes but am still very green

  • Real Estate Agent · Garden City, NY · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Francis Van Steen

    How long have you been in the house?

  • Engineer · San Jose, CA · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    @Christopher Phillips we have renting it from my father in law for 11 months

  • Real Estate Agent · Garden City, NY · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    9y

    @Francis Van Steen

    Okay. So, if he lived in there before that for 2 years out of the last 5, then he should be able to have the Capital Tax exemption for $250,000 as a single person.

    He should discuss the best options with a tax professional before doing anything.

  • 1031 Exchange Qualified Intermediary · Bend, OR · Member since 2015 · 44 posts · 10 votes
    9y

    he would be paying tax on the difference of his sale and basis.  You need to determine his basis and yes tax will be 30% or more......a very large tax.  

    There are other options for him to still do a 1031 to avoid the tax.  

  • 1031 Exchange Qualified Intermediary · Bend, OR · Member since 2015 · 44 posts · 10 votes
    9y

    He could also sell it to you on contract (he is the mortgage holder).  then he pays the tax a little bit at a time.

  • Engineer · San Jose, CA · Member since 2016 · 9 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    @Account Closed I appreciate the advice on the 1031 but I did discuss this with my father in law and he is not interested as he owns multiple properties free and clear already and does not want to acquire any more properties, tax liability or not. I will keep you in mind for the future if I need to trade up thanks again

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