Feedback/advice on inheriting real estate investments

Feedback/advice on inheriting real estate investments

Laguna Niguel, CA · Member since 2017 · 125 posts · 7 votes

Hey guys,

My dad just threw an unexpected curveball at my two older brothers and I, saying he wants to reduce his and my mom's tax liability/burden by unloading one of his properties (a 1 bed condo/apartment unit on the lower level... although every unit I've looked up on Zillow/Trulia/Redfin/etc seems to indicate that these are all 2 bed units... not sure how they're coming up with that unless they're considering the living/dining area to be the "second bedroom") which is local in the town my parents and one of my brothers lives in up in the Bay Area. It's a 15min drive away so super close to both my parents and one brother. The unit is fully paid off and has appreciated quite a bit I'm sure. I don't know what they paid for it but it's probably worth at least $450k now. They've probably flat-out owned it since at least the 90s, if I had to guess. By "unloading" he means transferring (and presumably gifting) title to my brothers and I so all our names are on the deed. From there, we could decide what we want to do and either continue renting or sell.

Currently, he told us he's renting it out for only $1200 a month. HOA dues are $375 and property tax is encroaching $1700 a year. So the profit margin is low already from what I've gleaned. Fair market rents in that area are maybe $2k based on just looking around online. And the city they're in is rent-controlled to where you can't raise rents for over 5% without getting mandatory approval.

So far one brother has expressed interest in just taking over the property and continuing renting it out. I mentioned raising rent but he was reverting back to "the current tenant is good and pays rent. Don't screw it up" - I then reasoned with him on the basis that if every other neighbor is paying $2k~ in rent and this tenant is the only one paying $1200, it's likely there's quite a lot of headroom for rent increases before they would ever consider moving out. And if we abide by the 5% rent increase rule, we should slowly be able to increase rents in accordance with the city while not pissing the tenant off so much that they'd want to move out. The other option of course is to evict the tenant and bring in a new one and renting according to current fair market rent. My parents, I think, just wanted a mostly trouble/hassle free rental and aren't landlord types of people (they often accept CASH as a form of payment...ugh). I don't know if they've ever raised rent on any of their tenants and like to think they're doing people favors by giving them a huge discount... I guess it's worked out OK for them? From their perspective, it seems they don't care about this form of income based on how much money they've accumulated and saved over the years. Ironically, it seems real estate is a 'minor' asset for them based on all the discussions I've had with them.

My dad was saying we should just sell the place once it's under our names and reinvest the money in some other property... not quite sure how that would work to our advantage in the Bay Area, considering how crazy housing prices are. Plus we'd get hit with additional taxes wouldn't we? My brothers both aren't investor types (AFAIK) so reinvesting the money out of state likely wouldn't be a possibility for them. If anything, they would likely want to cash out their shares and take the money.

Given this situation, I was looking for feedback on what you guys would do or if there's something that's a flat-out given/no-brainer (like "Yes, keep it, raise rent and keep renting it...) based on what I've shared so far. Or if any of you have been in this type of situation, what you ended up doing and if you'd do anything differently.

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  • Investor · Los Altos, CA · Member since 2014 · 942 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Jeremy Lee its a good problem to have...  But there are larger issues at play that you should take into consideration.  You have not touched on the overall net worth of your parents.  I assume it is high, but I don't want to make assumptions.  If they are a high net worth couple then you should definitely consult an accountant and potentially an attorney.  The reason being is that the transfer of the property will be considered "gifting" and will apply to their overall limits.  I would suggest that you get a third party appraisal so you can document the gift value.  You should hope for a low appraisal so that the gifting value will be low.  

    As another strategy, you could just buy the property from them "off market" with a separate "private" loan from them.  In this case you have more "fudge" factor in the price and also save on the realtor commissions.  At the same time you will be able to protect their gifting limits for dollar figures that are less up to interpretation.

    Please do not consider this legal or financial advice, I am not a professional in either of those professions.  I am just point out the fact that you should pay close attention to HOW you do the transfer, before you get into the mud about things like raising rents a few dollars at a time.  The key is to be as tax efficient as possible for everybody involved.

    Good luck to you!

    -Arlen

  • Laguna Niguel, CA · Member since 2017 · 125 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Arlen Chou:

    @Jeremy Lee its a good problem to have...  But there are larger issues at play that you should take into consideration.  You have not touched on the overall net worth of your parents.  I assume it is high, but I don't want to make assumptions.  If they are a high net worth couple then you should definitely consult an accountant and potentially an attorney.  The reason being is that the transfer of the property will be considered "gifting" and will apply to their overall limits.  I would suggest that you get a third party appraisal so you can document the gift value.  You should hope for a low appraisal so that the gifting value will be low.  

    As another strategy, you could just buy the property from them "off market" with a separate "private" loan from them.  In this case you have more "fudge" factor in the price and also save on the realtor commissions.  At the same time you will be able to protect their gifting limits for dollar figures that are less up to interpretation.

    Please do not consider this legal or financial advice, I am not a professional in either of those professions.  I am just point out the fact that you should pay close attention to HOW you do the transfer, before you get into the mud about things like raising rents a few dollars at a time.  The key is to be as tax efficient as possible for everybody involved.

    Good luck to you!

    -Arlen

    Thanks Arlen! I will definitely encourage them to continue seeking legal advice for something like this. My dad said that if we don't want to accept the gifting of this, due to tax concerns, he would likely just 1031 exchange these properties into a DST (Delaware Statutory Trust) otherwise.

    As far as buying the property, I'm not sure... I suppose we could try to do that but it's already complicated given the situation I'm in with them (we live in another one of their 1031ed properties) as Tenants in Common, and they are encouraging us to take a loan against the trust in paying this back. Further complications arise because it's not just me but my brothers who would be involved with all this. When you say "fudge" factor what do you mean exactly? Like they could sell us the home for whatever we agree on even if it's not "market" price? I'm not sure why we would want to buy the property and take a loan out otherwise... unless they sell it for extremely low and only one of us (brothers) buys, I don't see the benefit to doing this if we're considering a cashflow investment.

    As far as high net worth, I think they are. Funny thing is that they don't like talking about what they're worth -my mom especially is paranoid about this. I'd have to guess at least in the multi-millions though. Now, whether this is considered "high net worth" might be subjective depending on who you talk to as well...

  • Investor · Los Altos, CA · Member since 2014 · 942 posts · 1k+ votes
    8y

    @Jeremy Lee it sounds like your parents want to just move the property out from under them and over to you and your brothers. The issue is that it is not that simple... are they planning to put all of you guys on title? Are they thinking of forming an LLC with you and your brothers as equals and moving the property to the LLC? There are so many ways to do this that it is really not as simple as they might think it should be. That is of course ONLY if they care about being tax efficient in the transition. Their focus might just be as simple as getting the property off of their books.

    As far as the fudge factor, basically in all private "off market" transactions, the price is agreed upon between both parties.  There are no offical "comps".  Basically consider it as a "whole sale" deal among the family.  But if you price the property to low, then if anybody ever gets audited red flags will go up very fast.  You should take the time to create your own comps and base a "reasonable" price around those.  If your sales price for the property is below the comps,  you should be prepared to explain "why" there was a discount.  It could be because of deferred maintenance, it could be because of specific issues with the location... 

    Again this is just my uneducated opinion and not legal or financial advice. 

  • Laguna Niguel, CA · Member since 2017 · 125 posts · 7 votes
    8y
    Originally posted by @Arlen Chou:

    @Jeremy Lee it sounds like your parents want to just move the property out from under them and over to you and your brothers. The issue is that it is not that simple... are they planning to put all of you guys on title? Are they thinking of forming an LLC with you and your brothers as equals and moving the property to the LLC? There are so many ways to do this that it is really not as simple as they might think it should be. That is of course ONLY if they care about being tax efficient in the transition. Their focus might just be as simple as getting the property off of their books.

    As far as the fudge factor, basically in all private "off market" transactions, the price is agreed upon between both parties.  There are no offical "comps".  Basically consider it as a "whole sale" deal among the family.  But if you price the property to low, then if anybody ever gets audited red flags will go up very fast.  You should take the time to create your own comps and base a "reasonable" price around those.  If your sales price for the property is below the comps,  you should be prepared to explain "why" there was a discount.  It could be because of deferred maintenance, it could be because of specific issues with the location... 

    Again this is just my uneducated opinion and not legal or financial advice. 

    Yes, it seems that's the case. I think they were thinking to put the three of us on title but then my dad started talking about forming an LLC - in that case, I'm assuming the name of the LLC would be on the title? My dad has already been speaking with his attorney so I think he's getting more info.

    Yes, the auditing part is a bit scary in terms of if we were to agree on buying from them in an off-market sale and coming up with our own price. That would take quite a bit of round-tabling....

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