Seattle, WA · Member since 2013 · 70 posts · 33 votes
I'd like to hear from anyone investing or invested in the Cleveland rental market. I'm looking into purchasing a duplex or two in the Cleveland area for long term rentals.
Cleveland, OH · Member since 2013 · 150 posts · 62 votes
12y
I came to Cleveland from Key West, Fl. I met my wife here and didn't even know where to begin in terms of work until I saw a month later after being here that I can buy a duplex for 8k to 30k in a high rental area, in Fl you won't buy anything decent for under 200k, so here I am now and I actually put together a really nice portfolio in less than 2 years being here!
For you guys out there wanting advice for Cleveland props, I learned this market from a very successful woman that got very wealthy here doing this!
Rule number 1. Don't make the mistake of buying ANYTHING on the east side! I almost made the mistake but listened and saw it all go down, they will destroy everything, steal your water tanks, furnaces, fixtures or anything that they can get a dollar for!
I decided to invest in the areas in the west side which is just a tad more money (8k to 35k) and this area includes west park, west side, old brooklyn. I was a contractor in Fl for a long time so I rehab my own with a couple 12.00 hour guys as helpers so my rehab costs are lower than most since I do alot myself. I buy mostly duplexes and im renting 2 bedroom units from 585.00 month to 600.00 per month. 3 bedrooms from 600.00 to 675.00, expect to pay 125.00 average per month in water & sewer since owner pays that in multi-unit props. Now here is what nobody like to hear, Cleveland tenants are somewhat unstable and like to move alot, they also mostly all like to have pit bulls as pets, they will come to look an apt and give you a deposit and then a week later after you took apt off the market, they call you and want deposit back, so you just lost time & money! Also the local help is garbage so repairs can be expensive by qualified people. Also they love to pay late ( they live paycheck to paycheck ) and some are dirty and bring bedbugs in to your house and it costs us money to correct issue.
Well there is good and bad in every business but i'm happy with this here, I actually ended up with 25 of these duplexes and making good money overall! I'm selling a couple of my properties now to buy something in Avon Lake as new personal home, so if any of you guys out there interested in some nice turnkey props, let me know and I can even manage for you if you buy it. For those of you looking for a property manager, I offer this service for only west side investors and my rate is 15% of gross rents, i'm a bit higher than others but my experience speaks for itself, my company does it all from rehabing to placing tenants, we do it all in house so we don't call roto-rooter to snake your drains, we do it at a rate where you making money and so are we.
Good luck guys! Any info needed? I'll be happy to entertain
Real Estate Broker · Cleveland Dayton Cincinnati Toledo Columbus & Akron, OH · Member since 2013 · 30k+ posts · 20k+ votes
12y
I took a drive through East Cleveland the other day as I had to take photo's of a new listing for a local investor. Here is a few of the houses I snapped a picture of. The only way it would make sense to me (or anyone interested) to invest in East Cleveland would be if you had enough capital to start buying up entire neighborhoods at a time. Sort of like what happened in Tremont.
Couple things that should be noted.
East Cleveland is it's own city. It should not be confused with the rest of Cleveland. It is it's own little terrible world. I invest in great areas on the West side of town. & guys like @Christian Carson & @Zoran M. are having success in other areas on the East side of town.
All photographs were taken from inside the locked car.
Real Estate Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2013 · 301 posts · 112 votes
12y
@James Wise - Funny! I had a friend ask me the other day, "If your authorization is $X, why don't you go buy 10 houses in East Cleveland?" Answer is simple - I don't want to carry a gun to collect rent. It's just not worth it. To your point, if I had $1M, I'd go buy in Fairfax, Hough or Slavic Village in the hopes of gentrification in 10-15 yrs, but alas I do not have those funds.
But yes, there is an important distinction to make between "East Cleveland" and the eastern suburbs of Cleveland.
Cleveland, OH · Member since 2011 · 400 posts · 223 votes
12y
The city lines Euclid Avenue and the rapid transit line, directly to the east of University Circle. A natural escarpment physically separates East Cleveland from Cleveland Heights, to the southeast.
It's a bit of a shame to see the grand mansions deteriorating into the ground, as East Cleveland was once of the wealthiest suburbs in the area and the home of John D. Rockefeller (his estate is now on the map as Forest Hill Park). Now, thanks to forty years of corruption and mismanagement, it's the worst.
Incidentally, the area marked as Nela Park on the northeast corner is GE's lighting division headquarters, and it was the first industrial park in the world. Now, iron fences and gates keep it secure from the outside.
Give it thirty years and maybe East Cleveland's real estate will be prime (CWRU is already buying up land on the extreme west end, and building new student housing). In the meantime, the holding risk is sky-high.
Cleveland, OH · Member since 2013 · 150 posts · 62 votes
12y
East side is a great way to throw your money away, that area will never rise and the tenants will never let you make money! It's a no win situation.
I'm on west side and I have had luck, even though you still get some shady tenants here too, and the Detroit area is a war zone!
Oh and guys, I don't care what part of Cleveland your in, I suggest you carry a gun! People get robbed here left & right, and if your mingling with these tenants in person, your making a big mistake! have them drop rents off at dropbox or deposit in your bank. All my tenants think I'm a property manager and repairman.
And property management is a must around here, I do it for some selected clients depending location, but if it's a bad location I won't even do it.
Guys there is a 3 unit avail in Ohio City right now on West 57th, on the MLS for 25k thats a deal! Anyone here checking that out?
Cleveland, OH · Member since 2011 · 400 posts · 223 votes
12y
> East side is a great way to throw your money away, that area will never rise and the tenants will never let you make money!
University Circle, on the eastern edge of the city, is the fastest-growing job center in Ohio.
Unfortunately for the city proper, Cleveland Heights is directly adjacent and it's absorbing most of the high-income job growth. There are several planned luxury condominium projects within University Circle, however.
Real Estate Investor · Hilliard, OH · Member since 2014 · 29 posts · 7 votes
12y
I grew up in the Old Brooklyn area of Cleveland. Christian and James are guiding you folks in the right direction here. Unless you know the near east side very well, buyer beware. I'm sure there are some deals to be had over there, but more likely you'll find landmines (if not very familiar with the east side and actively involved).
Real Estate Investor · Hilliard, OH · Member since 2014 · 29 posts · 7 votes
12y
No kidding? Small world. I lived on west 47th at the end of Brooklyn ave. Still have lots of friends in the old neighborhood. Lots of family around there too.
Real Estate Investor · Hilliard, OH · Member since 2014 · 29 posts · 7 votes
12y
As an out of town investor, I'd say anything south and west is your safest bet - no guarantees, of course. Unless you have someone guiding you that you absolutely trust and who has a very firm understanding of east Cleveland, you'll want to steer clear.
Investor · CA · Member since 2010 · 150 posts · 40 votes
12y
I'm also an out of state investor with properties (2) in Cleveland. One in the Cuddell area and the other in Tremont (several down from the "Christmas Story House").
I've had pretty good experiences over the several years. My first purchase was more turn key with the second being a bit of a fixer upper.
I'm actually getting ready to put them on the market as I need the liquidity to pay off some debts.
Currently they are 100% occupied, and I have to agree with property management. My property manager is currently @ 10% of overall rents but sometimes feel like I'm the low man on the totem pole as I only have 2 properties (4 total units).
Flipper · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2014 · 23 posts · 3 votes
12y
Ben,
I live in Tremont and currently own a 3 unit property in the neighborhood as well. I'm looking to acquire more properties in the area so maybe we could chat.
Investor · Hawthorne, CA · Member since 2014 · 95 posts · 15 votes
12y
What a great thread for my first post! My first investment property I am hopefully closing on in a couple weeks is located in the Cleveland area and I'm really excited about it.
I also have a couple more I am looking at as well. I love the Cleveland market because its great for beginning investors like myself as its not too intimidating price wise and the ratios and returns (if properly managed and done correctly) are very nice.
I am mostly looking for turn key properties as I too live in California (originally born and raised in Sandusky however, so relatively familiar with Cleveland as I have family and friends still living around the area).
What are your opinions on self-managing the properties from a out of town? I understand the value and importance of a good property manager and have no problem paying for the service in order to maintain happy tenants and sound investments, but just wanted to gather some opinions from folks. I do come back to the area 4-5 times per year so its not as if I would be going years between seeing the properties. Thoughts?
Real Estate Investor · Arcadia, CA · Member since 2014 · 11 posts · 4 votes
12y
Kyle I would not recommend self managing. Homes are old and tenants are careless. You're going to get calls all the time from your tenants and its going to drive you crazy for the monthly cash flow. I guess tenants don't know what a plunger or snake is or even bother to try to take care of issues themselves. I would just use a good property management firm. Any one have any experiences, good or bad, with PM out in the North East OH area? I currently have 10 units (5 Duplexes) under a PM, but I have only been with them for a couple of months now. Still waiting to see how well they perform once a full year has gone by. I can say they have pretty responsive and I have no compliant currently. You can take a look at my vendor Andy Morris or Realty Trust Services.
Investor · Hawthorne, CA · Member since 2014 · 95 posts · 15 votes
12y
Thanks for the input @Account Closed
I am still up in the air as well about which PM group to work with for my properties in that area. I have a couple places/people in mind but have yet to secure any arrangements.
I too was wondering about some of the areas you mentioned, N. Collnwood and Old Brookyln. Have done some research and searching through the forums here to gather some info, seems like OB would be a "safer" bet of those two now, but N. Collinwood appears to be an up and coming area (or at least an area they are trying to reinvigorate and generate some positive buss) so that would seem like a good place to invest in now to hold for a few years and hope it really does take off.
Gentlemen, I wanted to weigh in on your neighborhood discussion. I would avoid the waterloo area. I work in the area and have deep ties to the economic development of the area. Bright spots notwithstanding, it is not a good area to live in or own in.
Given a choice between the two, go Old Brooklyn. Old Brooklyn can be very nice, specifically in the South Hills area. I used to live there and still own the house. West of there it still isn't bad, unless you start moving north as well. Even then, it is safer than Collinwood.
Cleveland heights is fine, and basically always will be. It has been the same for years, even through the downturn. You will always have clinic people and downtowners that want to live in the closest eastern suburb, and it has some character. You will also find young people and young families there as well. You will most likely find more normal people looking to rent there than in old brooklyn and definitely more than collinwood.
I can relate. One of my first out of state rentals was in a rough neighborhood that was vandalized and stripped within days of being vacant. Any chance of making good with the long term cash flow of the property went right out the window with all of the costly repairs including the replacement of an AC unit twice! Like you, I am careful about buying properties where the crime element is high.
Would you include the Brooklyn Centre area as preferred also? Was also asking in other threads but have had no responses so could ask here as well, what are your feelings regarding Slavic Village/Newburgh Heights?
Developer · Cleveland / Akron, OH · Member since 2008 · 922 posts · 399 votes
12y
I actually have never heard of an area referred to as Brooklyn center, so I cannot speak to that. Possibly a small area of Brooklyn, like south hills. As far as Slavic village and Newburgh heights go, I personally do not invest in those types of areas, same as collinwood. I manage myself and I have spent enough time in these areas for work over the years to know where I should be at night and where I should not be, let alone investing my money.
If I can't be working at a property at any hour without a single thought as to safety, then it is not my style. Not due to fear, but due to how that transaction is going to go long term. Lower end normally means more profit, but you spend an inordinate amount of time earning it, which is not scalable in my opinion.
I own a duplex in Newburg with another BP member. Newburgh is fine IMHO. It's a small village with a large number of police. The city is up your butt as to the appeance of the exterior of your homes so the houses do not get run down.
I have no safety concerns for my duplex. It's about 2 streets from the police station.
Now the area of Cleveland directly (E) of Newburgh is pretty run down.