Life isn’t going back to normal anytime soon is Real Estate?

Life isn’t going back to normal anytime soon is Real Estate?

Property Manager · Blaine · Member since 2015 · 209 posts · 276 votes

Just read an article from the MIT technology review and read up on what we already know. Life is not going back to normal tomorrow, next month, or maybe ever.

https://www.technologyreview.c... 

until we get a long term fix for carona our economy will be as bad as its ever been.  MIT predicts that this will not be the countries only bout with social distancing. Some will go back to work, and when cases rise they will clamp down again. It sounds like eventually rules will have to be enforced at the city, county, or state level. We will have to restrict travel and sacrifice some of our social liberties to live with the virus. How many business or apartment operators can withstand a 12-18 month disruption? How many people who work in US retail will be laid off by the end of this month? It amazes me that the stock market is only down 7000 points. After disastrous earnings reports for the next 3 quarters the only thing CEOs will be able to tell share holders is that we are cutting expenses and laying people off. Even if the government puts a moratorium on foreclosures who will still have a job when the moratorium comes off? The foreclosures will come in waives.

I have heard people say A and B class apartments is where it’s at because their jobs are safe and they can work from home. BS, I know a bunch of mid level executives and some are already being let go. Eventually they will trade down to C class. I am sure some of my C class tenants will be laid off soon, but at least they should be able to make most or some of their $700 rent on tax returns, unemployment, and stimulus. Even if they don’t, I would rather miss out on a $700 payment than an $2000 payment. I would rather pay my C class property tax bill than the A class bill.

Sorry if this is too doom and gloom, but I got the carona blues :(

It sounds like the government is going to bail out as many people as possible, but just like in 08, the people who had their loans modified usually ended up losing them anyway. I’m sure the fixed cost of running an apartment in NYC is high, you have a moratorium on evictions, a governor threatening civil war in a state telling citizens not to pay rent, and talking for 2 hours a day on national tv about how to make pasta. None of this can be good for the investor who was already losing residents to low tax states.

I wonder how the refi & roll, brrrr, and vrbo strategies will look 18 months from now? My least favorite BP line of all time, “I can’t wait for the next crash so I can scoop up all the good deals”. I’m sure that line is usually given by the highest leveraged of all of us or the person that will always be too scared to jump in.

Crazy times, someone talk me off the cliff :) how hard will multi family be hit when the dust settles?

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Sunnyvale , CA · Member since 2017 · 373 posts · 362 votes
6y

@Matt Higgins

Disagree. It might slow us down but not stop us. This may last longer but not forever. Lower Manhattan was ravaged in 2001 after the WTC attacks. The whole area came back in a few years. 2008 pushed people into foreclosures but by 2012, it was a distant memory. The world has seen tsunamis, world wars and natural disasters, things have always normalized. To me being too dark right now is the exact opposite of the “brag bro posts” that used to crowd BP forums until recently claiming real estate world invasion and imply invincibility.

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  • Member since 2018 · 214 posts · 175 votes
    6y

    Real estate, we are at the peak at no doubt, not easy to go back to normal. I have never seen all the casinos shut down in Las Vegas. CoVid-19 is not an easy health problem to be solved. On the news, the talks are two different solutions. Either wait for the heat (Summer Sun) to kill the virus by August this year or wait for the vaccine to come out (Scientists said at least 12 to 18 months). The scientists also said that it is not a guarantee that the heat can kill the virus, if the heat cannot kill the virus by the end of this summer, will be very tough and ugly. If all the casino shut down at least until August this year or next year, and many people are out of work for at least 5 to 18 months, it would be easy to predict the real estate would not look good at all down the road.

  • Specialist · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2018 · 33 posts · 19 votes
    6y

    They say it's best to always trust your 1st instinct.  After, watching these videos... you can make your own assumptions.

    P.S.  Imo....  It's time to double down on marketing.  So, we can be in a better position to help others.

    https://youtu.be/LVBc7-Te_yA

    U.S. Virus Plan Anticipates 18-Month Pandemic and Widespread Shortages
    https://news.yahoo.com/u-virus...

    https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1654272/?utm_source=embed&utm_campaign=visualisation/1654272

  • Investor · New York & TN · Member since 2019 · 325 posts · 219 votes
    6y
    Originally posted by @Anthony Carbajal:

    They say it's best to always trust your 1st instinct.  After, watching these videos... you can make your own assumptions.

    P.S.  Imo....  It's time to double down on marketing.  So, we can be in a better position to help others.

    https://youtu.be/LVBc7-Te_yA

    U.S. Virus Plan Anticipates 18-Month Pandemic and Widespread Shortages
    https://news.yahoo.com/u-virus...

    https://public.flourish.studio/visualisation/1654272/?utm_source=embed&utm_campaign=visualisation/1654272

     I'm not a gambler, but I agree with you. It's too easy to lose perspective in these situations. If you're in the game, stick with it, you don't have to get a homerun or a hit every time you're at bat. 

  • Rental Property Investor · Cranford, NJ · Member since 2019 · 245 posts · 148 votes
    6y

    @Matt Higgins , I have to agree with you. When this pandemic hit my original thought was Class C will do well. My basis for this thinking:

    • tend to have multiple jobs
    • boots on the ground jobs (kitchens, factories, trade helpers (plumbers, sheet rockers, etc)
    • low rents!
    • multiple document/study/teleconference universally declare how the supply for C is non-existing. We have a big problem with affordable housing and there just is not enough.
    • also what you mentioned, low taxes

     But on BP I've seen how people claim class A & B are the survivors. They mention how tenants can remote from home, etc. They have a point, but i feel a lot of those people have mortgages and not rents. Even in large cities like NYC they tend to buy condos or move to the burbs when their family starts to grow. 


    Just my opinion and I agree with you. I think class C will do well or at least better.

    • Real Estate Agent · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
      6y
      Originally posted by @Matt Higgins:

      Just read an article from the MIT technology review and read up on what we already know. Life is not going back to normal tomorrow, next month, or maybe ever.

      https://www.technologyreview.c... 

      until we get a long term fix for carona our economy will be as bad as its ever been.  MIT predicts that this will not be the countries only bout with social distancing. Some will go back to work, and when cases rise they will clamp down again. It sounds like eventually rules will have to be enforced at the city, county, or state level. We will have to restrict travel and sacrifice some of our social liberties to live with the virus. How many business or apartment operators can withstand a 12-18 month disruption? How many people who work in US retail will be laid off by the end of this month? It amazes me that the stock market is only down 7000 points. After disastrous earnings reports for the next 3 quarters the only thing CEOs will be able to tell share holders is that we are cutting expenses and laying people off. Even if the government puts a moratorium on foreclosures who will still have a job when the moratorium comes off? The foreclosures will come in waives.

      I have heard people say A and B class apartments is where it’s at because their jobs are safe and they can work from home. BS, I know a bunch of mid level executives and some are already being let go. Eventually they will trade down to C class. I am sure some of my C class tenants will be laid off soon, but at least they should be able to make most or some of their $700 rent on tax returns, unemployment, and stimulus. Even if they don’t, I would rather miss out on a $700 payment than an $2000 payment. I would rather pay my C class property tax bill than the A class bill.

      Sorry if this is too doom and gloom, but I got the carona blues :(

      It sounds like the government is going to bail out as many people as possible, but just like in 08, the people who had their loans modified usually ended up losing them anyway. I’m sure the fixed cost of running an apartment in NYC is high, you have a moratorium on evictions, a governor threatening civil war in a state telling citizens not to pay rent, and talking for 2 hours a day on national tv about how to make pasta. None of this can be good for the investor who was already losing residents to low tax states.

      I wonder how the refi & roll, brrrr, and vrbo strategies will look 18 months from now? My least favorite BP line of all time, “I can’t wait for the next crash so I can scoop up all the good deals”. I’m sure that line is usually given by the highest leveraged of all of us or the person that will always be too scared to jump in.

      Crazy times, someone talk me off the cliff :) how hard will multi family be hit when the dust settles?

      I have heard people say, “I can’t wait for the next crash so I can scoop up all the good deals”. It has made me cringe.  For you to get a fire sale deal, someone else has to be hurt and hurt badly.  There was this notion that other investors would be effected, but not me.  My bank would keep lending to ME.

      Our business depends on liquidy and leverage,  When the banks come back to the table investment real-estate will be back.  People need a place to live.  There is always going to be a demand for what we do.  What is the volume or pricing, that is going to be debatable.

    • Whitney HuttenPro Member
      Investor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
      6y

      Agreed @Lesley Resnick.  You have to keep perspective that this is a long game not a short one.  You also have to steal your mind during this time as "doom, gloom and sex" sell... that applies to journalism too.  I'm not looking at this situation with rose colored glasses or anything, however, we have to take this one step at a time.  And like Lesley said, everyone needs a roof... it's a basic need.  So are food, water, and air.  Personally, I choose to invest in basic needs and one if not all of them will payout for me in the end.

    • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
      Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
      6y
      Originally posted by @Whitney Hutten:

      Agreed @Lesley Resnick.  You have to keep perspective that this is a long game not a short one.  You also have to steal your mind during this time as "doom, gloom and sex" sell... that applies to journalism too.  I'm not looking at this situation with rose colored glasses or anything, however, we have to take this one step at a time.  And like Lesley said, everyone needs a roof... it's a basic need.  So are food, water, and air.  Personally, I choose to invest in basic needs and one if not all of them will payout for me in the end.

      I think one thing people maybe are not thinking about is there could be a ton of owner finance deals out there were owners will cut deals where payments will be cheaper than rent and renters will move into their own home.. thats how i sold a ton of my OREO back in 09 to 2010.

      I gave Zero % loans I gave loans that were 1/3 of rent etc .. the buyers in certain states got homeowners tax exemptions so what i paid as tax as the owner got cut down by sometimes 75%  IE lower value and homeowner exemption..  I can see this happening in some states for sure. And that will take renters and make them owners. 

    • Property Manager · Blaine · Member since 2015 · 209 posts · 276 votes
      6y

      I hear ya.  The SBA options sound pretty good too, but this is as big of a short term jolt that we could possibly have had.  The price of rent is going down fast in the short term.  Rental rates are dropping and who knows how long it will take to come back?  Unemployment will rise to a level this country has never seen in the short term. 

      I was a bit discouraged today, the first, when the ACH withdrawal hit and the collection number was not great.  I thought for sure April rent collection would be strong.  Still might be, but it was discouraging.  

       

    • Don KonipolBusiness Member
      Investor · The Woodlands TX / Avon, CT · Member since 2009 · 6k+ posts · 10k+ votes
      6y

      It all depends on what the next 60 days brings and how we react to it.  If the virus continues to escalate we have two choices.  We can continue the social distancing/shutdown, or, we can determine that the economic devastation is too high a price to pay for less/slower rate of deaths.  Once people start going hungry, once people can't afford clothing, once retirement funds lose 80% of their value, it may become politically possible for politicians to change their position and support a return to economic activity despite an increase in death counts.  And once the death count really rises, it will appear that the social distancing shutdown is not working because of the high number of deaths, even if in reality a significant number of lives are being saved.

      I can foresee a situation where people in at risk groups are isolated and the rest of the country is back to more normal economic activity. What seems cold and harsh now may seem the only realistic alternative in a few months. 

      Private Mortgage Financing Partners, LLC
    • Specialist · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2018 · 33 posts · 19 votes
      6y

      Here is another very interesting interview I would like to share w/ everyone:

      https://youtu.be/lWOYj8hjjjM

    • Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
      6y

      I stopped reading at "life is not going back to normal....possibly ever...."

    • Lender · Oceanside, CA · Member since 2014 · 39 posts · 50 votes
      6y

      These will definitely be choppy times going forward but there will also be opportunities that arise, new strategies that are put into place, and efficiencies forced to be implemented that in the long term will increase overall returns.  With increased panic in the market place, even the most "mentally stringent" investors can be forced to make an "emotional" investment decision.  This short term decision based on emotion will be another investors entry point.  Short term, there is great market uncertainty but if we are able to position ourselves properly, and this has a different meaning to every investor, then in the long term, the benefits will outweigh what we are going through now.

      Not meant to be motivational, hahaha but more so a reminder to stay diligent, be proactive, and keep the wheels turning.

    • Sunnyvale , CA · Member since 2017 · 373 posts · 362 votes
      6y

      @Matt Higgins

      Disagree. It might slow us down but not stop us. This may last longer but not forever. Lower Manhattan was ravaged in 2001 after the WTC attacks. The whole area came back in a few years. 2008 pushed people into foreclosures but by 2012, it was a distant memory. The world has seen tsunamis, world wars and natural disasters, things have always normalized. To me being too dark right now is the exact opposite of the “brag bro posts” that used to crowd BP forums until recently claiming real estate world invasion and imply invincibility.

    • Investor · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2015 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
      6y

      @Matt Higgins

      Eventually everybody will get infected and become immune (herd immunity) or a vaccine will be developed.

      Hopefully the vaccine comes first so fewer people die. 12-18 months is the timeline I’ve seen for the vaccine.

      Some degree of social distancing will be in effect until then due to how quickly/easily the virus spreads. Let’s hope the isolation can be more targeted/less widespread as testing improves.

    • Rental Property Investor · Norfolk, VA · Member since 2017 · 142 posts · 76 votes
      6y

      @Matt Higgins You're right. This is doom and gloom. But at least you warned us. I personally haven't been in the RE game very long. Own two properties and 2 tenants. Both are able to pay April's rent (one is a nurse) and the other already warned me her husband was laid off due to travel restrictions. I told her I'll work with her to the best of my ability but my husband and I have a mortgage to pay too. My second property is the SFH that my husband and I are moving out of and have to find a tenant for. You know what..I could buckle. I could cry. I could say let's not do anything until the situation is better. I'm working on my RE license here shortly. I could say let me hold off because RE isn't doing so hot right now. But we spoke with a reputable PM company. We're gonna move. We're gonna move forward with our lives and take it one day at a time. We're gonna pray that we find a tenant for our SFO and we're gonna do life and take it as it comes. At the end of the day I answer to God and he always takes care of us even if it doesn't look how we want it to look. No sense in worrying or wracking your brain. Just take things one step at a time with a level head. I'm aware that some people aren't believers but God has the final say. Not our government or this economy. But if you choose to take God out of it, still, worrying that life will never get back to normal is just healthy. You will get through it. We will all get through it.

    • Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 41 posts · 54 votes
      6y

      Social distance is a must and necessary to slow down the spread of virus rate.  Unfortunately, many people still don’t fully follow the social distance guidelines.  

      Many people originally were healthy in a city, once they take the airplanes and fly to another city, a higher percentage of travelers got infected. 
      I suspect both airports and airplanes have a lot virus, that many people got their coronavirus either in the flight or the airports, then the inflected people spread it to the community after they land.  

      I strongly encourage all of us to stay home most of the time except it is a must to get essentials things like food, drink etc.  

      Unnecessary traveling or entertainment would increase the virus spreading rate, and more people will die.  

    • Property Manager · Blaine · Member since 2015 · 209 posts · 276 votes
      6y

      @Maya Torres

      I might hold off on the real estate license. The fees are pretty expensive and activity is going to slow down. We have a property management and we are still finding qualified tenants so I wouldn’t let the ability to find a tenant stop you.

    • Property Manager · Blaine · Member since 2015 · 209 posts · 276 votes
      6y

      @Sam Josh

      The economy has never purposely shut half of itself down for 2-18 months. I believe in faith, no use in worrying about things we can’t control, but this is uncharted waters. We don’t know what the ramifications will be.

    • Property Manager · Blaine · Member since 2015 · 209 posts · 276 votes
      6y

      @Anthony Wick

      You can’t buy insurance for a pandemic. This is not a predictable event with a predictable time table or set of outcomes.

      The US economy has never shut itself down on purpose for 3 months to a year.

      We do not know when or what the new normal will be in 18 months for society. I’m glad you think we will be back hand shaking, rent raises, and lower cap rates. I hope you’re right.

    • Rental Property Investor · Columbus, OH · Member since 2014 · 148 posts · 177 votes
      6y
      Originally posted by @Sam Josh:

      @Matt Higgins

      2008 pushed people into foreclosures but by 2012, it was a distant memory. 

      What world where you living in when 2012 rolled around and the GFC was a distant memory?

    • Rental Property Investor · Ankeny, IA · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
      6y

      @Matt Higgins. You literally said, and I quote; "Life is not going back to normal tomorrow, next month, or maybe ever."  EVER.......Then,  you replied to me; "We do not know when or what the new normal will be in 18 months for society. I’m glad you think we will be back hand shaking, rent raises, and lower cap rates."

      If you'd like to retract your initial statement and back-up the hyperbole a bit, I'll go ahead and read more. But please do not put words in my mouth while I am quoting your words. 

    • Property Manager · Blaine · Member since 2015 · 209 posts · 276 votes
      6y

      @anthony wicks. Thanks for your Initial thoughtful response.  I’m sure you’re a great guy, enjoy Ankeny Iowa .
      Sorry, more hyperbole 

    • Rental Property Investor · Norfolk, VA · Member since 2017 · 142 posts · 76 votes
      6y

      @Matt Higgins I had to pay when I registered a few months ago so it’s already paid for. I would’ve continued no matter what. My circumstances are probably better than most. I’m a full time MBA student and my husband is military. We have his income to fall back on. Of course, we have two mortgages and tons of bills to include supporting his parents so we’re not in the clear but we’re gonna take it one day at a time. Not to mention two kids. We are strapped. But I have nothing to lose by pursuing a career as an agent (investing full time is the ultimate goal). I have tons to gain knowledge wise even if not income wise right away. So for us it makes sense.

      I definitely felt better about the move after speaking to a reputable property management company I was introduced to at an investor meet up. And we’re in a big military city so I have faith that we will find a renter.

    • Rental Property Investor · Norfolk, VA · Member since 2017 · 142 posts · 76 votes
      6y

      @Matt Higgins Thanks for the extra boost in confidence over finding a renter. Lol. Small things like that mean a lot in these times.

    • Property Manager · Blaine · Member since 2015 · 209 posts · 276 votes
      6y

      @Maya Torres good luck. You will be in a good position to help build your portfolio. My real estate commissions were in excess of 50k last year and that’s just on my own deals. The quarterly, annual, electronic keys, continuing education does get a little old, but the agent game is still a great racket if you are actually able to put deals together. Good luck! Down with carona, we will get through this, and we all appreciate your husbands service.

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