2,200 mailers, 5 calls. What to do next?

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2,200 mailers, 5 calls. What to do next?

Account Closed
Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 128 posts · 37 votes

So I started my direct mail campaign almost a month ago. The first batch of postcards went out on Feb. 1st.

I got 3 calls on the first 1100 post cards that went to out of state absentee owners in areas surrounding Denver. My criteria were SFR, 1 to 4 bedroom, 25-100% equity, last sale date more then 4 years, max assessed value of $330,000. I got no leads out of that, and thinking back on it, it probably wasnt the best list considering these are more expensive homes and tons of other people are marketing here.

The second mailing went out on Monday and Tuesday of this week to two smaller counties in Illinois where I used to live. It was Dupage and Mchenry County, same criteria, just max assessed value at $200,000. I got a whopping 2 calls from this mailing so far, and that was another 1,100 mailers, one potential lead but Its not very promising, he wants pretty much full retail. Ill be following up 15, 30, and 60.

Any suggestions on what I should do to generate a better response rate? I'm not discouraged at all, just thinking of more effective ways to generate leads, I bought the listsource plan of 15,000 names so I still have about 13,000 I can pull. I also just started doing adwords, which I like a lot, I'm also driving for dollars, and just had 5,000 door hangers come in. (so if you know of anyone in the denver area that puts out hangers please let me know!)

Anyways any suggestions for what I should do to make my direct mail more effective?? Any opinions are greatly appreciated. 

Thank you!

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Jonathan Wheeler
Investor · Bartlett, IL · Member since 2014 · 170 posts · 10 votes
10y

Something to keep in mind is that just because you've only had a few responses to your mailers in the first month, doesn't mean you won't get more responses from the same mailing campaign down the road.  I've done some marketing where the sellers didn't contact me until 5-6 months after receiving our mailer and have heard of instances of others getting deals like a year or more after sending direct mail.

I would also add that it's not really about the sheer number of responses that you're getting but more about the quality of the responses that matters.  I'd take 2 responses out of 1,000 that both turned into deals any day vs. 40 out of 1,000 where the sellers weren't really motivated and nothing came of the leads.

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  • Jerry Stanford
    Chicago, IL · Member since 2015 · 469 posts · 81 votes
    10y

    Just thinking of the top of my head....I wouldn't think there would be many empty homes in Dupage county and the ones that are will want full value. I'm thinking maybe do a different type of mailing to Dupage, probate perhaps?? Southwestern Cook or Will may be better suited for absentee...

    1Reply
  • Jonathan Wheeler
    Investor · Bartlett, IL · Member since 2014 · 170 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    It seems to me that good deals are definitely harder to come by in Dupage than a lot of the surrounding counties as there aren't as many distressed sellers.  With that said, there are deals to be had.  In the last 60 days or so, I've wholesaled properties in Carol Stream and Villa Park.  One was an owner who was transferred out of state for her job who was willing to sell for what she owed on the home to be done with it.  The other was an Estate.  If you get anything in Dupage, and need a buyer let me know.  I have a whole bunch of them who need properties ASAP.  Good luck to you.

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    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 128 posts · 37 votes
    10y

    Alrighty, so pretty much the geography is what I should focus on changing up? Ill still continue to hit these lists with most likely typed letter or yellow letters next. I still feel like I should have gotten a few more calls at least in mchenry county?

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  • Jonathan Wheeler
    Investor · Bartlett, IL · Member since 2014 · 170 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    Something to keep in mind is that just because you've only had a few responses to your mailers in the first month, doesn't mean you won't get more responses from the same mailing campaign down the road.  I've done some marketing where the sellers didn't contact me until 5-6 months after receiving our mailer and have heard of instances of others getting deals like a year or more after sending direct mail.

    I would also add that it's not really about the sheer number of responses that you're getting but more about the quality of the responses that matters.  I'd take 2 responses out of 1,000 that both turned into deals any day vs. 40 out of 1,000 where the sellers weren't really motivated and nothing came of the leads.

    2Reply
  • Brandon Ingegneri
    Rental Property Investor · Providence, RI · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
    10y
    You will get the most leads by far from cultivating your relationships. Hardest to do, but they will pay off again and again now and years from now.
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  • Brandon Ingegneri
    Rental Property Investor · Providence, RI · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 594 votes
    10y
    I advertise very minimally now, and that is because I pounded the pavement years ago, built a network by forging relationships. Deals literally fall on my lap now. (Not all the time) but more often than not.
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  • Account Closed
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 128 posts · 37 votes
    10y

    @Jonathan Wheeler@Brandon Ingegneri 

    Thank you for the tips guys! Jonathan I wouldn't mind that if it was the case, but it was more like a few asking retail and a few asking to be off the list haha. Not a single workable lead came from the direct mail. I will still continue hitting them no doubt about that and definitely looking forward to those calls in the future.

    Brandon I try to do that with every single contact I make, like this lady that has a house in Texas was interested in selling, there was a tiny bit of potential but really not a deal that interested me. I asked her some questions and found she wanted to sell it seller financed, but thought she couldnt do it because it was in her parents name. I explained to her how she can get it quit claimed to her name and seller finance it so shes able to move to a new area like she wanted to. She was so happy and greatful to get that info and Im sure something good will come of that in the future.

    Thank you both for your help!

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  • Rick H.
    Lender · Greater LA/Orange County area, CA · Member since 2012 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    You can get very scientific about your marketing and your list, however the key points are that you taking action, measuring and not satisfied with your results. 

    Therefore, you will continue to experiment. 

    You are working with cold lists, meaning that you are smiling to people to generate a lead that may be nurtured later after their first response. 

    Lots of reasons why you are not getting higher response. The obvious thing to me is that you are not communicating for specific triggers; problems that you identify and agitate in order to direct the recipient to take a particular action such as to call you.

    Also, your card is pretty boring. And all about you, not them. And kinda slick. 

    My opinion should not count. The guy or gal who calls you and does a profitable deal with you? Their vote is the only one that counts.

    1Reply
  • Todd Plambeck
    Agent/Investor · Murphy, TX · Member since 2013 · 542 posts · 304 votes
    10y

    I'll throw something out there.  The people you are marketing to in Illinois are most likely getting bombarded with post cards, letters, etc right now.  You've got a Colorado phone number on your mail piece.  Why would I call someone 4 states away versus someone local?  Why not use a phone number with a local area code?

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  • Scott Schier
    Real Estate Agent · Algonquin , IL · Member since 2015 · 53 posts · 28 votes
    10y

    I'd be interested in your Mchenry county properties as things start to pan out @Account Closed

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  • Adam Kroll
    Real Estate Agent · Boulder, CO · Member since 2014 · 87 posts · 24 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed, I'm very interested in how you refine your system! 

    @Account Closed

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  • Ian WalshBusiness Member
    Lender · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    Give feedback on the next blast.  Granted that is a low call rate, but it could just be the timing of the first one.  We have had very low response rates on mailers and then did the same mailer a month later and calls were crazy.  Timing and consistency go a long way with mailers.  That criteria should be ok, but you might want to also add non owner occupied if you can.  

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  • Dale Iurillo
    Wholesaler · Lowell, IN · Member since 2015 · 13 posts · 5 votes
    10y

    Igor, if Illinois owner wants pretty much full price, attempt a lease option for 24-60 month term and market once under contract. Looking for tenant buyer with cash that you can assignment you contact to & step away from. Contact direct for more info. I wirk the Illinois / Indiana marekets.

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  • Matt M.
    Realtor · Denver, CO · Member since 2013 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    10y

    It's going to take more than one piece of mail for this to work for you. Keep in mind that the lists that are for sale are also being marketed by other people as well. Your piece has to hit them on a day when they think "maybe I should sell my Colorado home" while the market is up. 

    My parents are out of State, and they are bombarded with mail about their home here.

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  • Account Closed
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 128 posts · 37 votes
    10y

    @Dale Iurillo Thank you I didnt think of that, the one guy that wanted retail in Illinois has a tenant in there until Sept. But there was one lead that came in from adwords in Colorado Springs on which I think I may be able to utilize this strategy. Thanks!

    @Ian Walsh Will do Ian, Ill try typed letters to Colorado out of states next, and yellow letters to the illinois list, and @Todd PlambeckIll be sure to put a chicago number on those letters ;) I had ordered 2500 postcards and was hand addressing them myself so I figured I would just use those in the Illinois mailing. That can certainly be the reason why I had a bad response rate! Thanks!

    @Rick H.I will be sure to let you know when the deals start coming in. 

    Thank you so much everyone for all of your responses this has definitely helped a lot!!

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  • Daniel Cruz
    Knoxville, TN · Member since 2013 · 100 posts · 24 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed

    I'm following your thread because I want to get into wholesaling also (I live in Knoxville, TN). Everything I read / hear is that your snow ball may not start rolling w/ deals until 5 to 7 months (or more) of consistent marketing. I'm trying to personally brainstorm how to have a $1000 per month marketing budget that never dries up.

    For personal reasons I haven't started yet, but I'm also figuring out what chess pieces I need to move before getting started.

    0Reply
  • Shawn M.
    Investor · New Haven, CT · Member since 2012 · 285 posts · 175 votes
    10y
    You are sending your letters to too many people. You should go for 50% equity or more. And 6-8 years ownership or greater. The higher the equity and longer term ownership the better deal you can negotiate because there is more equity. Think about it. If someone bought a house 4 years ago and put 20% down. A) the chances are slim they can offer you a deal because they have no equity b) probably aren't ready to sell yet. Tighten your criteria. You'll send fewer letters but are hitting a better demographic
    2Reply
  • Account Closed
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 128 posts · 37 votes
    10y

    @Shawn M. The reason that I went down to 25% equity is twofold, because most people are going for 50% or higher, and so I might be hitting people that aren't getting mail from other investors, and I think 25% equity is enough to make a deal work. Im not looking to only assign contracts, I'm also looking for subject to deals and things of that nature, which I think can make sense if they have over 25% equity.

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  • Brie SchmidtBusiness Member
    Moderator
    Real Estate Broker · Chicago, IL · Member since 2013 · 6k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    So I started my direct mail campaign almost a month ago. The first batch of postcards went out on Feb. 1st.

    I got 3 calls on the first 1100 post cards that went to out of state absentee owners in areas surrounding Denver. My criteria were SFR, 1 to 4 bedroom, 25-100% equity, last sale date more then 4 years, max assessed value of $330,000. I got no leads out of that, and thinking back on it, it probably wasnt the best list considering these are more expensive homes and tons of other people are marketing here.

    The second mailing went out on Monday and Tuesday of this week to two smaller counties in Illinois where I used to live. It was Dupage and Mchenry County, same criteria, just max assessed value at $200,000. I got a whopping 2 calls from this mailing so far, and that was another 1,100 mailers, one potential lead but Its not very promising, he wants pretty much full retail. Ill be following up 15, 30, and 60.

    Any suggestions on what I should do to generate a better response rate? I'm not discouraged at all, just thinking of more effective ways to generate leads, I bought the listsource plan of 15,000 names so I still have about 13,000 I can pull. I also just started doing adwords, which I like a lot, I'm also driving for dollars, and just had 5,000 door hangers come in. (so if you know of anyone in the denver area that puts out hangers please let me know!)

    Anyways any suggestions for what I should do to make my direct mail more effective?? Any opinions are greatly appreciated. 

    Thank you!

     I wouldn't do postcards!  I did a few hundred and got a couple of calls.  Six months later @jerry Puckett did a letter campaign and I had too many calls to even return.  

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    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 128 posts · 37 votes
    10y

    @Brie Schmidt Thanks Ill be trying typed letters for the Colorado list and yellow letters for the Illinois list. 

    Ill be sure to update with future direct mail results!

    0Reply
  • Zach KiddPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Clearwater, FL · Member since 2015 · 176 posts · 148 votes
    10y

    Lots of great advice here.

    #1 - Niche.  You need a more specific target, and a more direct approach. 

    Rifle -> bullet -> dead deer. 

    Not: Shotgun  ->  that-a-way  -> meh, nothing happened.

    What makes a seller "motivated"? 

    It's not equity, it's not price point, it's not market position. 

    But a tax lien, or a lis pendens? Those are obvious, but applicable. 

    You can drive for dollars and see with your own eyes which properties are distressed. At this point, you'd be far better off targeting those specifically. Spot one, note the address, they get a yellow letter.

    #2 - Seed time. 

    One-and-done mailings will work, but not very well. You don't need to beat a dead horse, either. You do need to be memorable, easily found when wanted, and familiar.

    I would recommend a couple of postcards, then a yellow letter, then another yellow letter saying that this is your last letter to them, but "stick this magnetic business card on your fridge just in case".

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  • Account Closed
    OP
    Flipper/Rehabber · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 128 posts · 37 votes
    10y

    @Zach KiddThank you that helps a lot! I've been doing more driving for dollars, the past few days I would just get off the highway in a random spot and start driving around, sent out 38 on a couple days ago, and have another 27 that will go out Monday. I will continue to do driving for dollars and look into getting more targeted lists. 

    That Warren Buffet quote is awesome, I have big goals that Im going to achieve in a fairly short period of time so I get anxious when I don't see results right away, but I will stay persistent and keep marketing and putting myself out there, bound to pay off sooner or later.

    Thank you guys!

    0Reply
  • Zach KiddPro Member
    Real Estate Agent · Clearwater, FL · Member since 2015 · 176 posts · 148 votes
    10y

    Glad you found my advice helpful!

    0Reply
  • Aaron Mazzrillo
    Investor · Riverside, CA · Member since 2011 · 2k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    10y

    The first question you should ask yourself is, "What am I doing different from every other schelp out there doing this?" In other words, what is your USP? -> Unique Selling Proposition. "We Buy Houses" ain't it.

    The second thing you need to do is rethink your medium. Your post card has absolutely horrible colors. Black and orange? Did you used to work road construction? That subconsciously screams to me, "Caution! Slow down! Danger Ahead!" Or is this a Halloween mailer? Either way, it's going from the mailbox to the recycle bin 99.99% of the time. 

    Here is what I get when I read your postcard;

    We, My, I'm, me, I, me. 

    Are you selling yourself or your service? If it is your service, what exactly is it that you are going to do different than the other 10 people mailing this exact same list the very similar "We, My, I'm, me, I, me" postcards? 

    I'm going to give you a big "AH-HA!" moment right here: If someone owns just one rental house, THEY AIN'T IN IT FOR THE MONEY. 

    Think about that. Do you buy just one stock? One gram of gold? 

    Put yourself into you customer's shoes. This is rarely, if ever done by any real estate investor. They all just think mailing some crappy postcard or letter that pretends they have piles of cash is going to trigger (key word there!) the recipient to call them right up and hand over a deed. 

    As you just learned, it don't work that way.

    2Reply
  • Nathan Weaver
    Investor · Davenport, IA · Member since 2015 · 102 posts · 70 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed

    1st You need to narrow your criteria with the proper list or your wasting your time and money.

    2nd Of all the direct mail ever the proven most responsive is yellow letters that look hand written on a wedding or birthday invitation style envelope and that should say ONLY

    "Hi -seller- 

    My Name is Igor. I would like to buy your house. Please call me at xxx-xxx-xxxx"

    It's so simple it's genius. I had one seller tell me that it was the most ridiculous and marketing he had ever seen. I said "It got you call me didn't it?" and then he sold me his house.

    Now all of this is way to much time to do yourself. I use theyellowletterlady dot com . They will consult with you fro free about what type of list you need to target if you tell them who you are trying to reach. IT WORKS!

    Happy Investing! :)

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