Direct Mail Almost Killed My Business - SEO Saved It

Direct Mail Almost Killed My Business - SEO Saved It

Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes

I wanted to share my experience, frequently I'm contacted about direct mail marketing from listeners of the BP Podcast I was interviewed on in 2014. It was an honor to be interviewed, while the mindset and business organization tips offered still hold true. The marketing information is outdated and dangerous. Let me explain... 

From 2012 - 2015 I mailed 5,000 - 15,000 mail pieces per month in Southern California. Various types of letters and postcards with a good amount of success. But in 2015 I started to notice a shift, my marketing was becoming less effective as competition for off market properties grew and new wholesalers and house flippers began to try their luck at direct mail. 

Midway through 2016 I pulled the plug on all forms of direct mail and PPC marketing. I was fighting a losing battle, it took 10-15k mail pieces to get a deal and most sellers I reached were inciting bidding wars that I couldn't win. If I did get the deal, the wholesale fee would barely cover my marketing costs to get the deal. I was getting frustrated and felt embarrassed and afraid that my business model was no longer viable. 

At that point, 1/3 of my deals were coming from a website I had created in 2014. It was poorly designed but was ranking fairly well in my market. I noticed a trend that the sellers I reached via my site were much easier to deal with. To survive in my competitive market I knew I had to make big changes or I'd bleed out on the marketing costs of direct mail and PPC. 

Over the last two years I've sourced 100% of my deals from my website, which tends to rank in the top 3 spots for most keywords in my market. This change eliminated most of the stress and pressure I felt from high budget marketing. If I don't think a deal or a seller align with my goals, I can easily pass on it since my costs to reach them are negligible. In the past I'd be trying to fit round pegs in square holes to cover my marketing costs, running myself ragged on every lead to squeeze something out of it. 

I now spend under $1000 a year on design and maintenance to allow a fast, efficient, clean and safe website. This helps Google take notice and I am routinely making little tweaks to try and stay ahead of the curve. For a small company like mine, this provides me enough deals to thrive on while not stressing the typical costs and pressures of marketing in a fiercely competitive market. 

The intent of this post is shed light on the alternatives to large marketing budgets, technology is our friend and frankly I don't see many people looking in their mailbox for answers to their questions these days. They are on their phone. Direct mail might be a great way to reach sellers (especially the old ones) but the trend is shifting and it is no longer a creative form of marketing. Dealing with tech savvy sellers (of all ages) has made my life much easier and relieved a lot of stress. Feel free to ask any questions if you'd like to open a discussion on SEO, web marketing and its merits.

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Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
7y

seo is god. The problem many investors have is the lack of u understanding what seo is. If you say "I do seo" and you do not rank #1 I am sorry but SEO = picking your nose.

Seo is only useful being #1 or getting there. Period!

Then the second mistake people make is thinking that being number one is the end goal. SEO without credibility equals nothing. Credibility without SEO equals nothing unless you drive traffic to your website manually. People need to understand that SEO alone will not get you anywhere. Deals = SEO + credibility

See this reply in the discussion

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  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Alissa S.:
    @Jerryll Noorden can we chat? I have been playing around with web things but would love these results for my business.

     How many goats and chickens have you got?

    You think I am free?

    Pfffft

    yeh sure.. call me ^_^

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Alissa S.:
    @Jerryll Noorden can we chat? I have been playing around with web things but would love these results for my business.

     .. Did you just call SEO " web things"??

    Ohhhh you di int

  • Flipper/Rehabber · San Diego, CA · Member since 2014 · 48 posts · 5 votes
    7y
    @Jerryll Noorden don’t know your personality so I am going to assume you are just being sarcastic for fun. If it’s a big deal to chat, I’m cool. I was interested in chatting with you but I am not looking for handouts so if you are interested, message me so we can connect. If not, then no harm done and I will move on. ☺️
  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y

    Woman! How dare you! Don't know my personality??

    I am famous!

    Nah...

    yeah I was being funny. Dont think anyone but me accepts chickens or goats... or virgins for that matter.

    Pm me. Lets chat.

    You old folks are waaay to serious on here!

    :)

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Jerryll Noorden can you back your statement up about investor carrot sites and their SEO advantages with data that you are willing to share publicly. I appreciate your enthusiasm on this thread, but some of it comes across as self promotion and not in the spirit of an open discussion. 

  • Real Estate Agent · Mesa, AZ · Member since 2017 · 231 posts · 169 votes
    7y

    This is a pretty cool topic. I am so technologically challenged, but am seeing the benefits of the internet as it's growing my business in so many ways right now. I look forward to learning more on this topic.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Tim G.:

    @Jerryll Noorden can you back your statement up about investor carrot sites and their SEO advantages with data that you are willing to share publicly. I appreciate your enthusiasm on this thread, but some of it comes across as self promotion and not in the spirit of an open discussion. 

     Can I back up my statement about IC being the better choice? 

    Yes, wait.. NO!.. wait wait wait.. MAYBE?!  , but I won't!

    I am here to give advice. When asked what is the better platform (FOR ME) I will give an answer that is based on what I have seen, research I have performed and obviously from the results I have gotten. I am not here to convince or try to convince anyone to follow my footsteps.

    What I can give you, is MY results:

    I can literally go on.

    Self promotion.

    Self promotion? No. Bragging.. sure... maybe..

    I do not work for IC, nor am I associated with them. So I don't think self promotion is the case here. 

    All I am doing is telling someone that they are "FLAT OUT WRONG" when they say something tat is simply wrong. I just do it in a very humorous way so no one gets butthurt. But if you follow my responses here on BP, I am not afraid of what people say or think about me and I do not hold my punches when something simply is wrong.

    If you are wrong you are wrong... and I am not going to sugar coat it when someone is simply wrong. I will tell them  "Yo you are wrong".

    And that is what I did when a BP member made a complete erroneous claim about SEO earlier in this thread. That sparked a flood of responses that lead to this point... where I am bragging how awesome SEO really is...

    If you need me to convince you that IC is great, or SEO is my lover... just don't go for IC, because you probably will fail.

    I would have gotten these results with Wix, LP, standing butt naked on the side of the road with a beard "We Buy Houses, call me"... and I still would have gotten these results. WHY??

    Because I am OMG awesome! well seriously for a sec? Why? Because I work HARD at it! I do things no one is willing to do!

    If you want data, seriously.. find it, it is there... again do a search for "we buy houses in..." and you said it yourself.. all IC sites on top, yet some of you  translate that into a bad thing !?!?!  Wait what?

    So being at the top every single time now equates to.. "oh it is a bad thing".. HOW exactly?

    YOU have to do the work. IC is just a tool. You have a wix site and you say you get 100% of your leads through it.. well fantastic. Stick to Wix then.

    Self promotion is one thing.

    It is a completely other thing (in my opinion at least), when I for one (as one of the few people on this forum) that do not just talk a good talk, I SHOW and PROVE it with actual numbers, screenshots. I back up my good talk.

    So...

    like I said..

    You can either defy the facts and numbers and stand your ground stubbornly, or do your research, and find the facts yourself, and act accordingly based on your findings. Don't wait for ME to convince you you should switch to IC.

    I am just a monkey, handsome as can be, brilliant as a dolphin really good at what I do.. obviously..

    Many think I am bragging... but seriously.. ask me if I care.

    You can either see the value in me sharing my secrets (something I certainly don't have to do, and it doesnt help me at all (self promotion?) or be annoyed and think "OMG its HIM again".

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    I'm not sure we're participating in the same conversation, regardless. It has run its course.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Tim G.:

    I'm not sure we're participating in the same conversation, regardless. It has run its course.

     Hmmm

    You are skeptical about IC.

    You ask me to show you why I think IC is my best choice.

    I answer.

    You tell me I am self promoting

    I respond to your notion that I don't think I am self promoting

    You keep asking for data to proof why I think IC is a good tool.

    I deliver said proof.

    You have nothing to counter with

    Thus: "this conversation is not valid"

    Okie dokie. 

    Honestly we are having a conversation and I am trying to help you.

    If you can not accept constructive criticism you won't improve.

    What is it that you want from me. How do you want me to help you. I have answered your every question with proof effort and elaborate explanations. You just seem to get upset because my points prove to be right.

    See this as free inside perspectives from a different mind. Don't fight it... absorb it. Research it then draw your conclusions.

    YOU are steering this in the wrong direction. Accusing someone of selfpromotiong AFTER you ask him to show proof is asking for trouble dude.

    Relax. Learn. Help others, let others help you.

  • Ian WalshBusiness Member
    Lender · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    Really good post and paying this much attention to your marketing is spot on.  I have been wondering when the shift of money will switch from baby boomer to millennial and I think we will see the indication of it when the effective marketing methods change just like this.

  • Randallstown, MD · Member since 2016 · 2 posts · 1 vote
    7y
    @Tim Gordon hi Tim, I'm new to wholesaling and fix & flip. I'd like to know more about reaching more sellers via the net versus direct mails. Thanks Robert Smith
  • Specialist · Orlando, FL · Member since 2018 · 13 posts · 10 votes
    7y
    @Jerryll Noorden please check your inbox when possible. Thank you.
  • Investor · Washington D.C. · Member since 2010 · 48 posts · 21 votes
    7y

    Great post really appreciate this!

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Ian Walsh:

    Really good post and paying this much attention to your marketing is spot on.  I have been wondering when the shift of money will switch from baby boomer to millennial and I think we will see the indication of it when the effective marketing methods change just like this.

    The shift is here. It just depends on if the seller is an early adapter to tech or not. I had an older seller laugh at me when I asked them if they could print or scan a contract. They were in their 60's and had a career where they used computers, of course they could. 

    The other interesting part to note, at least on my end. Is my SEO web leads seem to have different personality traits than those I found via direct mail. Traits I find easier to deal with and it allows me to handle deals more effortlessly. I can' substantiate this with any data but the trend is present and it helps me enjoy dealing with these sellers. 


    People aren't looking to their mailbox for answers to questions today, direct mail is a dying form of marketing. The future is automated call systems or the web. 

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Robert Smith:
    @Tim Gordon hi Tim, I'm new to wholesaling and fix & flip. I'd like to know more about reaching more sellers via the net versus direct mails. Thanks Robert Smith

     Hi Robert, me too. Glad you're putting a focus on your marketing. What stage are you in with your business and marketing plan. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Long Island, NY · Member since 2018 · 37 posts · 20 votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Cornelius Charles:

    @Jerryll Noorden  It's funny you mention that.  I searched "We buy houses in..." and "Sell my house fast" across the country a year or two ago just to see what other investors were doing.  What I found was that most, if not all, of the top positions were carrot sites. Although i was ranking fairly decent at the time with my wordpress site, i figured they had to be doing something right and switched to their services. 

    I noticed the same thing and decided to go the opposite direction with our site. I wanted to be able to stand out from all the identical investorcarrot/leadpropellor sites. I'm not sure how they get the rankings they do though, they don't even seem to employ a real content marketing strategy...

    Like @Tim Gordon, I also went with a Divi site.

  • Specialist · Middle Grove, NY · Member since 2016 · 57 posts · 12 votes
    7y

    I just googled sell my house fast and with the exception of 2 - all results were blog posts.  Content is HUGE!  The other thing I noticed was one listing had 5 stars because they claimed their google business listing pay attention to those reviews.  Local SEO has become increasingly important in rankings and driving qualified traffic.  

  • Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 249 posts · 54 votes
    7y

    I thought I would bring some data/insights to show you why websites rank. I used @Jerryll Noorden website as an example. FYI, I have been building, buying, growing, and managing websites for last 10 years. I am by no means the best SEO expert.

    The domain is https://www.webuyhousesinconnecticut.com/

    If you have any questions on the terms used, I am happy to help explain more.

    Off-Page SEO

    Pros:

    • Ranked #1 for lucrative keyword, “we buy houses in connecticut”. Note: Advertisers are willing to pay upwards of $30 cost per click (CPC) to advertise for this keyword.
    • Ranked #1 for keyword “sell my house ct”. Advertisers willing to pay $88 CPC.

    Cons:

    • From a quick overview, this website is using a Private Blog Network (PBN), which is blackhat method to gain links from a network of websites that is usually managed by the owner, or acquaintance of the owner. The owner of the site can also pay third-parties to “rent” links from a network of sites to get a boost in rankings. In the real-word equivalence, this is the same as “buying” your way into knowing people, if that makes sense. Google has stated they will penalize PBNs if they can spot them (see https://searchengineland.com/private-blog-networks-great-way-get-site-penalized-286489)
    • Google also loves to see diversified anchor texts. This website has too many anchor texts that are similar. This will cause issues long term and require diversification. Here are the top 5:
      • jerryll
      • cash for houses in connecticut
      • jerryll noorden
      • dixie
      • we by houses in waterbury ct
    • All of the traffic comes ONLY to the homepage of the website. Diversification is extremely important. Google can penalize a single page and thus overnight the traffic will go to 0. A healthy website has traffic from search engines coming to various pages. This website needs diversification.

    Page Speed:

    Google takes page speed, on-page metrics into account. Google wants the website to rank that provides the best experience for the end-user. The tool to do the analysis can be found here: https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insi...

    Pros:

    • The Desktop version of the website received a score of 96/100. This is great!

    Cons:

    • The mobile version is not friendly at all. It received a 42/100. This needs to be significantly improved or Google will not rank this website for mobile visitors.

    Others

    • The website gets a rank of C (79/100) from Pingdom.com. The website needs caching to be done.
    • Images need to be optimized
    • HTTP requests need to be limited

    Overall, the website is ranking well due to a massive number of backlinks (about 1500). However, to ensure long term stability, the website needs more diversified links. The website needs a blog where frequent content can be posted. Frequent content is the strongest signal to Google and a blog can help.

    If any questions, let me know.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Mushfiq S.:

    I thought I would bring some data/insights to show you why websites rank. I used @Jerryll Noorden website as an example. FYI, I have been building, buying, growing, and managing websites for last 10 years. I am by no means the best SEO expert.

    The domain is https://www.webuyhousesinconnecticut.com/

    If you have any questions on the terms used, I am happy to help explain more.

    Off-Page SEO

    Pros:

    • Ranked #1 for lucrative keyword, “we buy houses in connecticut”. Note: Advertisers are willing to pay upwards of $30 cost per click (CPC) to advertise for this keyword.
    • Ranked #1 for keyword “sell my house ct”. Advertisers willing to pay $88 CPC.

    ********************************************

    Actually...

    I rank for a whole lot more.

    The list goes onn and onnn and onnnnn

    ;)

    ********************************************

    Cons:

    • From a quick overview, this website is using a Private Blog Network (PBN), which is blackhat method to gain links from a network of websites that is usually managed by the owner, or acquaintance of the owner. The owner of the site can also pay third-parties to “rent” links from a network of sites to get a boost in rankings. In the real-word equivalence, this is the same as “buying” your way into knowing people, if that makes sense. Google has stated they will penalize PBNs if they can spot them (see https://searchengineland.com/private-blog-networks-great-way-get-site-penalized-286489)

    ********************************************

    WRONG:

    Sighh.. it is quite obvious you are a rookie SEO guy (and I DO use the word "SEO guy" lightly.

    PBN.. Private network Blog.. is when you have 200, 300 1000 blos, with THIN content  simply and only to scam Google into thinking you have a to of backlinks.

    What I have is 2, read my digi zulu lips. TWO blogs, with AMAZING content.

    1 is about Flipping houses, and the other is about SEO for Real estate investors where I talk about doing SEO the right way.

    Don't believe me when I say this is not only WHITE Hat SEO.. this is what Google ACTUALLY WANTS!

    Here is proof!

    And want more proof?

    OK fine.. why not:

    For those of you too lazy to watch these vids.. I will explain the idea behind these videos.

    Google WANTS positive user online experience from your website.

    So if you have lets say.. blog 1 about fishing

    and blog 2 about tying fishing knots.. it is not only OK to link the 2 together.. it is actually WANTED that you do.. as you give users to your site a much better user experience and you talk about tying your hook in the fishing blog and then link out to how to tie knots in blog B.

    Google loes this.

    Is this a PBN? Of course it isn't. It is just that rookies use these standard online website analysis apps, t "analyze" your site and they can't destinguess a PBN from a marble. And then people like you play the "smart guy" simply because your SEO clients are simply dumber than you. In the lend of the blind the dude with one eye is king.

    That is all it is.

    If you actually have SOLID knowledge of SEO and the understanding of its workings.. all this is pretty standard knowledge.

    ********************************************

    • Google also loves to see diversified anchor texts. This website has too many anchor texts that are similar. This will cause issues long term and require diversification. Here are the top 5:
      • jerryll
      • cash for houses in connecticut
      • jerryll noorden
      • dixie
      • we by houses in waterbury ct

    ********************************************

    WRONG AGAIN:

    If your business is an E-commerce site (what MOST SEO articles are written for online.. yeah you need to diversify your keywords. For a very narrow specific service oriented company.. let say.. ummm.. a "We Buy Houses" site... these keywords are perfectly fine.

    In addition.. AGAIN.. your mmo standard website analyzer can't detect how diverse my keywords actually are:

    Let's find out...

    • All of the traffic comes ONLY to the homepage of the website. Diversification is extremely important. Google can penalize a single page and thus overnight the traffic will go to 0. A healthy website has traffic from search engines coming to various pages. This website needs diversification.

    ********************************************

    OMG WRONG AGAIN.

    How can someone be wrong SO often in just one article. There must be a reward for this:

    But in all honestly, I can not blame you. You are just some dude that wants to be an SEO guy to get people to pay for your "services" while you use  a free online webpage analyzer that does a pisspoor job at it.

    But enough complimenting:

    Here is proof:

    This is all the traffic to my individual pages. Obviously there is no "ONLY" one page my traffic comes from. 

    ********************************************

    Page Speed:

    Google takes page speed, on-page metrics into account. Google wants the website to rank that provides the best experience for the end-user. The tool to do the analysis can be found here: https://developers.google.com/speed/pagespeed/insi...

    Pros:

    • The Desktop version of the website received a score of 96/100. This is great!

    ******************************************************************

    Actually .. it is 100!!

    ThankYouVeryMuch

    ******************************************************************

    Cons:

    • The mobile version is not friendly at all. It received a 42/100. This needs to be significantly improved or Google will not rank this website for mobile visitors.

    ******************************************************************

    THis is actually 89.

    Depending which site you use and how often you run it, will give you different values... but as an SEO expert you must know this.

    ******************************************************************

    Others

    • The website gets a rank of C (79/100) from Pingdom.com. The website needs caching to be done.
    • Images need to be optimized
    • HTTP requests need to be limited

    Overall, the website is ranking well due to a massive number of backlinks (about 1500). However, to ensure long term stability, the website needs more diversified links. The website needs a blog where frequent content can be posted. Frequent content is the strongest signal to Google and a blog can help.

    ********************************************

    Sighhh What ever.

    I have just 53 Domain backlinks. There is a much stronger SEO power metric than backlinks.. Pffft.. that is so 80's dude. Want to know what this is? Ask me nicely and I may share.

    As for optimizing Pictures.

    My pictures ARE optimized. No matter how optimised they are, that softare you use will ALWAYS say it can be more optimized.

    Anyways.. I think I have proved my point enough. I have to so a walkthrough. You can keep trying to convince people what you want.

    Have fun with it.

    My Q to you.. why do this?

    I got me. I get leads out off my bum. Go do you man!

    Kind of pathetic if you ask me.

    From now on... Please leave my site and my info alone. I do not appreciate you sharing my site link and your "analysis" of my site with the public, especially when you know nothing about SEO....

    Be good man

  • Seattle, WA · Member since 2016 · 249 posts · 54 votes
    7y

    @Jerryll Noorden just bring data/insights to a conversation which has been mostly about nothing but you showing off. Of course, there is no doubt your website is doing well and you are getting great leads. Good for you. 

    When you say things like "especially when you know nothing about SEO....", it just shows me you have very limited knowledge yourself. 

    Anyways, I will leave it at that. If anyone has questions, feel free to message me directly. This thread is dead.

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Mushfiq S.:

    @Jerryll Noorden just bring data/insights to a conversation which has been mostly about nothing but you showing off. Of course, there is no doubt your website is doing well and you are getting great leads. Good for you. 

    When you say things like "especially when you know nothing about SEO....", it just shows me you have very limited knowledge yourself. 

    Anyways, I will leave it at that. If anyone has questions, feel free to message me directly. This thread is dead.

    Little dude..

    You see it as showing off because you are a competitive person pissed jealous envious someone else is doing good or is better than you.

    A person eager to learn sees this as a good source of info.

    A person new at this sees this as inspiration to do the same.

    A person eager for success sees this as a reason to step it up.

    I know because I get tons of private messages telling me that my posts are crazy good and super funny. I of course do get the random message that talks about haters like you and to ignore them...

    Regardless if you see it as showing off why do you care?

    Be happy for me that I am doing well. Don't like it? Go to the next topic. Block me. Move on. But to be so vindictive and jealous and go out of your way to try to show the world or trying to recucule me just because I am better/ good... Just wow.

    I say you know little about seo is simply because you really know nothing about it. I didn't do what you did. I didn't go find proof you know nothing about it. You did that all by yourself.

    I mean seriously. I proved your every claim wrong with concrete data. What is there to talk about. All you do now is explain why you did it like a child caught by a parent when he did something wrong.

    If you want to learn about seo dude... all you have to do is ask. I help anyone and everyone.

    Now calm down and chill. I hold no grudges but I am really allergic to ignorance. Pm me and we can have an in depth convo about real white hat seo.

    There is a huge new white hat strategy surfacing when it comes to seo. Big big big news. I know when it comes out everyone will again do the same. I am already dissecting it and formulating my own techniques how to 10x this!!

    Lets work together! 

  • Ian WalshBusiness Member
    Lender · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    I think it is market dependent to commit to the shift being completed.  San Fran will likely have a more shifted market than a small city in the mid west.  Most cities I believe are in transition.  Ours is for sure.

    Originally posted by @Tim G.:
    Originally posted by @Ian Walsh:

    Really good post and paying this much attention to your marketing is spot on.  I have been wondering when the shift of money will switch from baby boomer to millennial and I think we will see the indication of it when the effective marketing methods change just like this.

    The shift is here. It just depends on if the seller is an early adapter to tech or not. I had an older seller laugh at me when I asked them if they could print or scan a contract. They were in their 60's and had a career where they used computers, of course they could. 

    The other interesting part to note, at least on my end. Is my SEO web leads seem to have different personality traits than those I found via direct mail. Traits I find easier to deal with and it allows me to handle deals more effortlessly. I can' substantiate this with any data but the trend is present and it helps me enjoy dealing with these sellers. 


    People aren't looking to their mailbox for answers to questions today, direct mail is a dying form of marketing. The future is automated call systems or the web. 

  • Flipper/Rehabber · Wilton, CT · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Ian Walsh:
    I think it is market dependent to commit to the shift being completed.  San Fran will likely have a more shifted market than a small city in the mid west.  Most cities I believe are in transition.  Ours is for sure.

    Originally posted by @Tim G.:
    Originally posted by @Ian Walsh:

    Really good post and paying this much attention to your marketing is spot on.  I have been wondering when the shift of money will switch from baby boomer to millennial and I think we will see the indication of it when the effective marketing methods change just like this.

    The shift is here. It just depends on if the seller is an early adapter to tech or not. I had an older seller laugh at me when I asked them if they could print or scan a contract. They were in their 60's and had a career where they used computers, of course they could. 

    The other interesting part to note, at least on my end. Is my SEO web leads seem to have different personality traits than those I found via direct mail. Traits I find easier to deal with and it allows me to handle deals more effortlessly. I can' substantiate this with any data but the trend is present and it helps me enjoy dealing with these sellers. 


    People aren't looking to their mailbox for answers to questions today, direct mail is a dying form of marketing. The future is automated call systems or the web. 

    I do not agree there.

    I used to look down on DMM, simply because I get more than I can handle from my website.

    But here is the problem. You leave a HUGE market open , low hanging fruit if you do not do DMM.

    Older folks still look to newspapers for help. They do not have fancy cell phones and have no idea what a Google is.

    I used to think.. well who cares if I miss on that 13% of the market... but that is a big mistake. A huge factor of being successful is not only doing many deals. You have to dominate kill destroy crush your competitors. "ohh you are so mean". These ka pampa crappy competitors of mine steal my designs, my copy, my everything to try to steal my market. Mercy is not in the vocabulary.

    If you leave a % open for them to feed on, they ARE trying to overtake you. You NEED to starve out your competition. The more deals you take away from them the more deals you have... and the less dels they will have.

    DMM is a must no matter how awesome your website is or how many deals you get from other places.

    Besides... simply BECAUSE "everyone" thinks DMM is a dying form of marketing, by definition is it now the hottest form of marketing (because no one does it, you would be the only one).

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y

    @Ian Walsh for sure, its not black and white on direct mail or tech for reaching sellers. The part I'm interested in is the personality part, and maybe different copy on a piece of mail marketing can achieve this too. 

    Reaching the mellow, easy to deal with sellers. That is my priority. I've noticed that owner occupant sellers tend to be easier than absentee. There aren't tenants or any 3rd parties who aren't on board with our plan. I'm really interested in how the message and marketing is designed to find the easiest sellers to deal with for a good margin. 

    Have you noticed any of these trends in your marketing? 

  • Rental Property Investor · San Diego, CA · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    7y
    Originally posted by @Jerryll Noorden:
    Originally posted by @Ian Walsh:
    I think it is market dependent to commit to the shift being completed.  San Fran will likely have a more shifted market than a small city in the mid west.  Most cities I believe are in transition.  Ours is for sure.

    Originally posted by @Tim G.:
    Originally posted by @Ian Walsh:

    Really good post and paying this much attention to your marketing is spot on.  I have been wondering when the shift of money will switch from baby boomer to millennial and I think we will see the indication of it when the effective marketing methods change just like this.

    The shift is here. It just depends on if the seller is an early adapter to tech or not. I had an older seller laugh at me when I asked them if they could print or scan a contract. They were in their 60's and had a career where they used computers, of course they could. 

    The other interesting part to note, at least on my end. Is my SEO web leads seem to have different personality traits than those I found via direct mail. Traits I find easier to deal with and it allows me to handle deals more effortlessly. I can' substantiate this with any data but the trend is present and it helps me enjoy dealing with these sellers. 


    People aren't looking to their mailbox for answers to questions today, direct mail is a dying form of marketing. The future is automated call systems or the web. 

    I do not agree there.

    I used to look down on DMM, simply because I get more than I can handle from my website.

    But here is the problem. You leave a HUGE market open , low hanging fruit if you do not do DMM.

    Older folks still look to newspapers for help. They do not have fancy cell phones and have no idea what a Google is.

    I used to think.. well who cares if I miss on that 13% of the market... but that is a big mistake. A huge factor of being successful is not only doing many deals. You have to dominate kill destroy crush your competitors. "ohh you are so mean". These ka pampa crappy competitors of mine steal my designs, my copy, my everything to try to steal my market. Mercy is not in the vocabulary.

    If you leave a % open for them to feed on, they ARE trying to overtake you. You NEED to starve out your competition. The more deals you take away from them the more deals you have... and the less dels they will have.

    DMM is a must no matter how awesome your website is or how many deals you get from other places.

    Besides... simply BECAUSE "everyone" thinks DMM is a dying form of marketing, by definition is it now the hottest form of marketing (because no one does it, you would be the only one).

    You're right, there are a lot of sellers who will still respond and sell to someone who reached them via direct mail. I guess in my situation and less about looking down on direct mail and more about that I didn't enjoy direct mail and I found an alternative. I was unhappy spending money on marketing campaigns, dealing with outbound marketing, the sellers, the bidding wars, the personalities my direct mail attracted. It made me unhappy and I'm not in this business to be the best, get the most, dominate, etc.. I'm here to do deals that make money and allow me to be happy and live my life. 

    I'm a big fan of pareto's principle. When I examined my business, I felt that I could have more free time to chill and enjoy myself outside of work and focus on the 80% and let the other 20% go to someone else who was ok with the smaller margin deals that seemed to take up more time. I don't have a desire to do every deal in my market, more deals don't equate to more happiness in my world. 

    As they say... Its not the way, just a way. 

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