Investor, Entrepreneur, Educator · Springfield, MO · Member since 2009 · 21k+ posts · 12k+ votes
Just wondering, how many RE invetsors have had or are involved in sales of other financial products? Insurance sales, bank PR/marketing, stock brokers, financial planners?
How has that experience played on your RE investing? :)
Great question Bill! I have a background in Insurance Sales and Financial Planning and I've found it has helped me tremendously. I don't do it actively today, but I do find what I have learned applies to much of my investing and personal finances. A lot of investors I come across don't consider the benefits or are simply unaware of some of the best financial planning strategies out there especially when it comes to estate planning and tax implications, working an insurance policy as a creative investment vehicle, leveraging debt, and using things like Charitable Remainder Trusts.
I'll give you a quick example of just one technique I love. This was something I found out from my years owning a construction company, something I learned to recognize with my financial planning and insurance background, and something I finally implemented with my current investor mindset:
Years ago I worked for a builder who would borrow money out of his life insurance policy, he would build a house with it and sell it and put the money back into the policy while keeping the profit. He was over-funding the policy so he didn't have to make premium payments. Life insurance is a necessary evil. Typically when you're young you can't afford an expensive policy so it's wise to at least get term insurance, but when you get term insurance I've learned that it's best to make sure it's convertible to a life insurance policy with a cash value component. So if you are successful down the road you can use the insurance as a strategic investment bucket. Most people don't use it because on the policy's own merit the returns are low, BUT I had learned the strategy from the builder to borrow the money out at a low rate from your policy and invest in something in a higher rate so it buys the insurance for free and you make a profit. This bucket is safe from lawsuits, protected from bankruptcy, and it also builds in there tax free! And it passes to heirs in a favorable way.
One of my favorite financial planning books "MissedFortune 101" by Doug Andrew has also given me a lot of ideas over the years like this. Every time I read it I discover something new that will help me. I think every RE investor should read that book.
Great question Bill! I have a background in Insurance Sales and Financial Planning and I've found it has helped me tremendously. I don't do it actively today, but I do find what I have learned applies to much of my investing and personal finances. A lot of investors I come across don't consider the benefits or are simply unaware of some of the best financial planning strategies out there especially when it comes to estate planning and tax implications, working an insurance policy as a creative investment vehicle, leveraging debt, and using things like Charitable Remainder Trusts.
I'll give you a quick example of just one technique I love. This was something I found out from my years owning a construction company, something I learned to recognize with my financial planning and insurance background, and something I finally implemented with my current investor mindset:
Years ago I worked for a builder who would borrow money out of his life insurance policy, he would build a house with it and sell it and put the money back into the policy while keeping the profit. He was over-funding the policy so he didn't have to make premium payments. Life insurance is a necessary evil. Typically when you're young you can't afford an expensive policy so it's wise to at least get term insurance, but when you get term insurance I've learned that it's best to make sure it's convertible to a life insurance policy with a cash value component. So if you are successful down the road you can use the insurance as a strategic investment bucket. Most people don't use it because on the policy's own merit the returns are low, BUT I had learned the strategy from the builder to borrow the money out at a low rate from your policy and invest in something in a higher rate so it buys the insurance for free and you make a profit. This bucket is safe from lawsuits, protected from bankruptcy, and it also builds in there tax free! And it passes to heirs in a favorable way.
One of my favorite financial planning books "MissedFortune 101" by Doug Andrew has also given me a lot of ideas over the years like this. Every time I read it I discover something new that will help me. I think every RE investor should read that book.
I too worked in a life, disability, and annuity company.
The point I would like to make is that this company was a top 3 nationally life company. Their investment with their Agents and General Agents in Sales Psychology Training was intense. Why did people buy?
And "mirroring" people, learning personality psychology, blending with people, etc.
The 4 buyer types:
The emotional and practical buyers, who made decisions fast, and could be persuaded and closed relatively quickly if the product made sense, and
the analytical and amiable, who take FOREVER to make up their mind, even if it was best for them.
Lesson here, know who you are talking to, and use that info to be successful!
I had an insurance agency, with Met and Pru, and was a top agent fairly quickly, I sold the meat, not the sizzle as they like to do. Initial training was great. Led the SE region of the country when Met went into P&C.
Anyway, I did FP and business arrangements.
It probably led to my success in financing and RE. Insurance is an intangible product, much like a mortgage except the benefits are obvious, they get the house or the RE.
Where it really paid off was in dealing with people one on one, the appointments. Then with the FP background it opened doors to creative deal making, working out problem loans, foreclosures and commercial transactions with businesses.
David, my most creative deal, seller financed with cash contributed above the sale price as a contribution, over 800K involved a charitable remainder trust and funded by a creative note broken out in several principal parts for the beneficiaries.
Anyway, cold calls are a favorite thing due to those experiences too, no door too tall to knock on!
At least I had enough in the files that I sold my agency!
I got in the business with the help of a real estate broker who told me he couldn't pay me to work there after I got out of the Army, and suggested I go get a starting paycheck and work with him part time. So, thanks to him, it all worked out.
I'd give the same advice to new people today as well, if you can't eat off RE starting out, go get with a good insurance company, get a pay check, learn people and sales skills, some finance issues and how to present ideas over a kitchen table. It is directly related! :)
I suppose I'm considered a former financial salesman.
Been around the block with the retail firms. Big wire-houses, regional shops and one bank based. I really enjoyed and hated the business. Talking golf to Ivy types makes my eyes glaze over these day. Professionally, my interest was specifically bond- tax free munis, fannie, freddie and higher yielding corp. stuff- nobody but institutions do that kind of biz these days. Previous to that I was part of the rollover craze in the late 1990s and worked for the self-proclaimed king of retirement and estate planning. This was back in the day when brokers were cold call cowboys and singing the praises of managed money billed the tune of 3% per year. The B-share mess, reverse churning and fee based account were just emerging.
So how did it help?
Learning to operate under significant pressure, crunching numbers, how to effectively manage time and dealing with very angry people. Operating in a hostile environment and maintaining professionalism despite massive difficulty didn't phase me. Seeing fellow advisors receive brass plaques and special award dinners for cheating clients did.
So I got out.
How has it played a role today you ask?
I worked in a small group and each person had a very specific assigned role. Every member of the group, or I suppose they call them teams now, was accountable for his specialty. We mastered the team approach and consequently taught me the cog-in-a-wheel approach. This can be applied to any discipline be in real estate sales, property management, whatever.
To answer your question- financial sales prepared me to effectively consult individuals regarding major financial decisions and helping them make those decisions. I speak the language of CPAs and tax lawyers thanks to my experience. I simply went from intangible assets(stocks, bonds, mutual funds) to tangible assets(real estate).
I started in financial services at the age of 18 with a company called Royal Alliance which was a subsidiary of Sun America. All I dealt with at that time was mutual funds and life insurance. From there I moved on to Muass Mutual and eventually became an independent broker.
I had my series 7 license but focused more on insurance products such as mutual funds & permanent life. The last time I worked in that capacity was about 10 years ago.
Wow, I'd think it would be tuff at 18 trying to sell life insurance to an older person, having to overcome the perception that such a young sales person would have the expertise to advise in finances.
I suggest anyone starting out to consider insurance companies for a job while they could still do some RE. So many young investor types starting out without a check. You'll get a pay check and some great sales training that applies directly to RE. Ins. companies spend big bucks on training and techniques that just can't be matched by real estate companies. Go further in property and casualty will give you some great insight to legal issues, negligence and real estate risks. :)
Bill Gulley It definitely toughened my skin I'll tell you that much. Life insurance is a tough business and having to overcome the age factor was just another obstacle. However, I think that in most cases if you can make sense and not be intimidated by the person you're selling to you'll do ok.