Direct Mail marketing content help for targeting Montana seniors
Investor · Big Sky, MT · Member since 2019 · 66 posts · 28 votes
I am looking for help with Direct Mail marketing ideas to attract potential homeowners to sell to me in rural Montana for the purchase of an investment property that would be my primary residence.
I have a couple of dozen property addresses that fit my investment strategy in the Gallatin Canyon between Big Sky and Bozeman, Montana. The majority of the homeowners are seniors that have vacation cabins/cottages in the mountains of Montana.
I am looking to house-hack for the purchase of my primary residence and am seeking a 2-3bedroom/ 1-2bath home.
I have been a resident of Montana for 13 years and am actively looking for a place to call my home.
I am not a big-time investor and I think a heartfelt handwritten letter would be most effective. Thoughts?
I was also planning on slipping in a photo of me. Thoughts?
What would you write in a letter (homeowners are most likely elderly and out-of-staters with a vacation home here in Montana) asking if they would be interested in selling to a young man in his 30s looking to make a house a home?
Dear Mr. and Mrs. Smith,
???????
Thanks,
Corey
Hi @Corey Meyer I would recommend sending that list of property addresses owners a blind offer! I do that exactly I use a letter template 2 pages the first being a cover page expressing interest and letting them know who I am and what I do and the second page being a PA with an offer and place for the seller to sign. I got that template from Offers 2 owners
Hey, you probably want to target a few of my clients :).
I also get these offers on my properties from time to time. Let me tell you an anecdotal story... Once I actually got a little angry over an unsolicited offer. The local investor, who may or may not be on BP, sent me a cheap little postcard mailer with some language about how they were interested in my property, and that they "know it has some deferred maintenance, and we have priced it into our offer already." This is a STR, fully furnished, with an incredible CAP, and around 400, 5 star reviews mind you. I would never sell this property, as it's my family's future. But I saw his offer, and instead of shredding the card, I sent him a counter offer of 3x the offer he sent me, and explained that at that price it still had a 6% CAP, and would sell in a few months if I listed it. Never heard back from the person, which was my intent. So if you're going to low ball, you better be ready to alienate yourself from the local investor community. They are now busy remodeling trailer homes last I saw.
I also know the Canyon inside out, and have worked in many of the homes as a contractor, and agent. This is one of the most expensive areas of Montana, and the Northern Rocky Mountains. If you're on Zillow, you will immediately notice some listings under $200k out there... Those are FS lease cabins which need to be owner occupied as a heads up, and would not qualify as FHA since they are not on foundations. Feel free to ask me anything about the Canyon.
I don't have any tips for you because these people are pretty savvy, and many are business owners, that I know. I manage an iconic home in the Canyon across from Storm Castle, and it is going up for sale for over $2M+. It has the rental income to back it up. It would be exceedingly difficult to find a home which is worth buying and justifying with CAPs in the Canyon, in Big Sky, and even Bozeman/Gateway these days. You've got to get creative. I would look at probate dockets, and start soliciting there. Usually those need to be quick sales.
Seriously.. back to back to back to back am I seeing posts about people asking how to make their DMM work...
I don't get it. Why are you even doing dmm? if everywhere you turn you see people struggling with DMM WHY are people still doing it?!
Well isn't it obvious by now especially with the response above me that DMM friggin is ridiculous?!
Dude stop following sheep and step up. Let all the other suckers send out mailers. Why don't you do something better.
Get found by your sellers instead of you finding them!
Brilliant no?
Look into SEO brother!
I am looking for help with Direct Mail marketing ideas to attract potential homeowners to sell to me in rural Montana for the purchase of an investment property that would be my primary residence.
I have a couple of dozen property addresses that fit my investment strategy in the Gallatin Canyon between Big Sky and Bozeman, Montana. The majority of the homeowners are seniors that have vacation cabins/cottages in the mountains of Montana.
I am looking to house-hack for the purchase of my primary residence and am seeking a 2-3bedroom/ 1-2bath home.
I have been a resident of Montana for 13 years and am actively looking for a place to call my home.
I am not a big-time investor and I think a heartfelt handwritten letter would be most effective. Thoughts?
I was also planning on slipping in a photo of me. Thoughts?
What would you write in a letter (homeowners are most likely elderly and out-of-staters with a vacation home here in Montana) asking if they would be interested in selling to a young man in his 30s looking to make a house a home?
Dear Mr. and Mrs. Smith, ??????? Thanks, Corey
For that quantity of letters:
Handwritten by a woman with decent handwriting placed in an yellow invitation style envelope with a handwritten address and a real 1st class stamp. Send to the list every 30 days kind of like this:
Hi David & Allison
My name is Corey. My Wife Michelle
and I would Like to buy your house
at
4213 Warbler Way
Please call me at 406-400-0000
Corey
Hey, you probably want to target a few of my clients :).
I also get these offers on my properties from time to time. Let me tell you an anecdotal story... Once I actually got a little angry over an unsolicited offer. The local investor, who may or may not be on BP, sent me a cheap little postcard mailer with some language about how they were interested in my property, and that they "know it has some deferred maintenance, and we have priced it into our offer already." This is a STR, fully furnished, with an incredible CAP, and around 400, 5 star reviews mind you. I would never sell this property, as it's my family's future. But I saw his offer, and instead of shredding the card, I sent him a counter offer of 3x the offer he sent me, and explained that at that price it still had a 6% CAP, and would sell in a few months if I listed it. Never heard back from the person, which was my intent. So if you're going to low ball, you better be ready to alienate yourself from the local investor community. They are now busy remodeling trailer homes last I saw.
I also know the Canyon inside out, and have worked in many of the homes as a contractor, and agent. This is one of the most expensive areas of Montana, and the Northern Rocky Mountains. If you're on Zillow, you will immediately notice some listings under $200k out there... Those are FS lease cabins which need to be owner occupied as a heads up, and would not qualify as FHA since they are not on foundations. Feel free to ask me anything about the Canyon.
I don't have any tips for you because these people are pretty savvy, and many are business owners, that I know. I manage an iconic home in the Canyon across from Storm Castle, and it is going up for sale for over $2M+. It has the rental income to back it up. It would be exceedingly difficult to find a home which is worth buying and justifying with CAPs in the Canyon, in Big Sky, and even Bozeman/Gateway these days. You've got to get creative. I would look at probate dockets, and start soliciting there. Usually those need to be quick sales.
Michael,
Thanks for all of this info!! Storm Castle is a great location, my real estate mentor has a place a couple of houses north of MWW right on the river. He has a mother-in-law suite that he STRs and is doing well. It's his numbers I am reading to potentially pull the trigger on a property. Ideally, one where I can both live and STR maybe my camper or an ADU. I like the thought of living halfway between Big Sky and Bozeman as the pool of ladies for an eligible bachelor is slim here in Big Sky and I am not getting any younger!
I currently own an STR in the Mountain Village and an STR in the Meadow Village (launched in 2014) and both are having their best year yet on the vacation rental market. I would like to add a Canyon property to complete my portfolio set of Big Sky Mountain, Meadow, and Canyon properties.
It's a crazy expensive and competitive market out there for a small guy like me! I wish I would have been a little savvier in 2007 when I moved to Bozeman and 2011 when I moved to Big Sky and been more hip to the real estate game. But I was still a young guy then with only student debt to my name!
So what would you recommend a 31-year-old looking to invest in more properties do here in Big Sky? My thoughts are hustle, get creative and the Gallatin Canyon..... too me has the most potential to find a diamond in the rough that will cash flow well and could potentially be in my price range. I really want a property that needs some sweat equity. I am also currently living out of my camper (see fox news article above) as I STR both my places in Big Sky.
I have a good amount of cash ready to execute on a deal if I can shake one up and I think a Direct Mail Marketing campaign might be the ticket or I straight go door knocking.
It's not easy being a little fresh fish in the big boys playground but I won't let it get my hopes down!
If you know of any deals in the area or have any advice for a guy like me, let me know!
Cheers,
Corey
I am looking for help with Direct Mail marketing ideas to attract potential homeowners to sell to me in rural Montana for the purchase of an investment property that would be my primary residence.
I have a couple of dozen property addresses that fit my investment strategy in the Gallatin Canyon between Big Sky and Bozeman, Montana. The majority of the homeowners are seniors that have vacation cabins/cottages in the mountains of Montana.
I am looking to house-hack for the purchase of my primary residence and am seeking a 2-3bedroom/ 1-2bath home.
I have been a resident of Montana for 13 years and am actively looking for a place to call my home.
I am not a big-time investor and I think a heartfelt handwritten letter would be most effective. Thoughts?
I was also planning on slipping in a photo of me. Thoughts?
What would you write in a letter (homeowners are most likely elderly and out-of-staters with a vacation home here in Montana) asking if they would be interested in selling to a young man in his 30s looking to make a house a home?
Dear Mr. and Mrs. Smith, ??????? Thanks, Corey
For that quantity of letters:
Handwritten by a woman with decent handwriting placed in an yellow invitation style envelope with a handwritten address and a real 1st class stamp. Send to the list every 30 days kind of like this:
Hi David & Allison
My name is Corey. My Wife Michelle
and I would Like to buy your house
at
4213 Warbler Way
Please call me at 406-400-0000
Corey
Perfect! To the point, no fluff. I like it! Thanks John.
Good to hear about your STR! It has been an insane year. We went from 99% booked for summer around February, and after Covid hit we lost 95% of those bookings, but once restrictions were lifted, we immediately filled right back up. Talk about a rollercoaster! We disconnected our phone during the 2 days after Montana got shut down, because we just couldn't get anything done hearing all the dings for the cancellations we were getting.
I actually manage a STR, just outside the Canyon, which used to be an 800 sq ft garage. It broke $5k gross rents this past month. The owner is very happy. It has been great across the board. I also manage a home uphill and across the highway from where your mentor lives, I think. This is a 1 bedroom ADU above a garage, which is pushing the $5k mark for gross rents. The owner nets about $3.7k, and their home wouldn't rent for that much long term. It is a good business, but I feel like I have aged 10 years in the past 5. I am looking more and more to just getting into home building, holding, and cashing out once my kids graduate college. I'm sure you understand the stresses. I can't even keep a decent cleaner. After Covid, I had 2 just quit for fear of catching the virus. Now, we use an electro-static mister to blast the inside of the units before we even attempt cleanings, so that the cleaners feel better. The limiting factor for me, is having enough manpower to clean these units.
If I had to give you some advice, I would make double sure the septic permits are in order. Study those, and understand them. Generally septic will be a bear to deal with. Those systems are all getting pretty old, pushing 40 years in many cases. You will see some deals in the Canyon, but there's usually a reason. Either septic or on a FS lease from what I have seen. I came soooo close to buying a lease hold down by Tamphrey Creek, but there were just too many logistical issues, and you always risk the chance of losing everything, as I believe they need to be owner occupied (from the agent). I never did get into the leases, so I am not 100% certain. But a good indicator of whether or not they are allowed, is if there are any listings in that area on ABB, which there were none of.
If you're not set on the Canyon, there are options, but otherwise the cost to purchase + outfitting the units + the STR saturation in our market make it harder and harder to turn a profit. I would look for a parcel that offers the following:
1. unzoned, no CCnR's, no HOA, no subdivisions! You can also look at lots which allow modulars and manufactured homes, as these are pretty relaxed in terms of STR's. I would slap a pole barn on that with living above a garage, and that would make $3500/mth easy in Bozeman or in the Canyon. But yea you've got to read those CCnR's if you want to run a STR from the home.
2. Make triple sure that the water table is more than 4' deep on average year round. You can find some data on this site: https://mbmg.mtech.edu/mapper/mapper.asp?view=Wells&,
But if there are no "monitoring wells", a test well and 6 months of testing will probably run over $4k ($2k for pits and well, $2k for the site visits to monitor). I would contact Mark Westergaard, in Bozeman, on all testing and general advice.
If you can get that far and find a parcel, I think you are good. Then the question is one of price... And there's just no way around that these days. I am not that impressed with Bozeman rents compared to value, and I just am waiting it out at this point on purchasing rentals, and looking more and more at land and lots, to do self-builds, and just build up equity to play with when there will be an inevitable crash. I should point out though, that there's no sign of that coming at any point in the near future, and in fact, things are skyrocketing. If you ever need a hand looking for property, just let me know. I work for my buyers for free :)
Why focus on this area? I started PMing out here in the mid 2000's, and also wish I had bought earlier, but I was still in my late 20's when I started out. But the more I look at properties, the more I see that the rest of Montana has much to offer as well. I really like the Jefferson River Valley, I am building out in Paradise Valley right now, and also love the areas south of Butte and the Pioneer Mountains. Dillon was a good buy just last year, but is now exploding in value. I still am not set on SFH's anywhere, as I don't see the value that sellers want from their property. This is because I have so many bids on projects that I know the actual replacement cost of these buildings. I can't blame them for wanting to sell for top dollar though, as we still have not reached the top of our market yet. There is a limit to the equity a 40 year home with decades of deferred maintenance can fetch. So if someone has the cash to put down 50% on a home like that, they will get it, but otherwise an appraiser and under writer will smash those dreams of STR income. Even IF someone wants to purchase a home at the top of the market, a bank is going to want to steer closer to the replacement cost of the home, and taxable value, rather than an inflated value.
Instead of asking to buy out a property owner, find a larger land owner, and ask them if they would be willing to parcel out a small 1 acre or something. You will find a much better price that way, and you can offer to do the survey, some improvements, and the like. I personally have not done this, so I can't speak to how well it works, but I have thought about it many times.
We have a very unique market here. I think if you have property now, just hold tight, or buy another parcel. If you have owned it for more than 2 years, and have equity, I would cash out within the next year, but be aware these refi's are taking like upwards of 180 days! It's ridiculous, but goes to show what is happening right now across the country. I have tricks to help qualify you, but they are totally idiosyncratic to each property. Essentially I can cashflow anything except SFH's and lots in a subdivision, although those two are still very nice for buy and hold purchases. To summarize it as simply as possible, I don't start my searches on the MLS with something in mind. Instead, I set my search parameters to be extremely broad in category (cross-property searching is my favorite), but have only a few parameters which are very specific. This allows me to weed through many many properties. If one is outside your price range, always remember any local bank will be fine with 75% of rental income towards PITI. Many times, you will have to wade through property after property just to find the one which the seller's agent did not market properly. Look for those properties with outbuildings, parcels which are bundled together, and those with a liveable structure on a foundation (you can qualify for FHA on these if you claim it as a primary residence). Look at unfinished basement properties, or some kind of sq ftage which would be easy to finish out and rent.
It's tough, but doable! I do it all day! Good luck!
Originally posted by @Corey Meyer:
Hey, you probably want to target a few of my clients :).
I also get these offers on my properties from time to time. Let me tell you an anecdotal story... Once I actually got a little angry over an unsolicited offer. The local investor, who may or may not be on BP, sent me a cheap little postcard mailer with some language about how they were interested in my property, and that they "know it has some deferred maintenance, and we have priced it into our offer already." This is a STR, fully furnished, with an incredible CAP, and around 400, 5 star reviews mind you. I would never sell this property, as it's my family's future. But I saw his offer, and instead of shredding the card, I sent him a counter offer of 3x the offer he sent me, and explained that at that price it still had a 6% CAP, and would sell in a few months if I listed it. Never heard back from the person, which was my intent. So if you're going to low ball, you better be ready to alienate yourself from the local investor community. They are now busy remodeling trailer homes last I saw.
I also know the Canyon inside out, and have worked in many of the homes as a contractor, and agent. This is one of the most expensive areas of Montana, and the Northern Rocky Mountains. If you're on Zillow, you will immediately notice some listings under $200k out there... Those are FS lease cabins which need to be owner occupied as a heads up, and would not qualify as FHA since they are not on foundations. Feel free to ask me anything about the Canyon.
I don't have any tips for you because these people are pretty savvy, and many are business owners, that I know. I manage an iconic home in the Canyon across from Storm Castle, and it is going up for sale for over $2M+. It has the rental income to back it up. It would be exceedingly difficult to find a home which is worth buying and justifying with CAPs in the Canyon, in Big Sky, and even Bozeman/Gateway these days. You've got to get creative. I would look at probate dockets, and start soliciting there. Usually those need to be quick sales.
Michael,
Thanks for all of this info!! Storm Castle is a great location, my real estate mentor has a place a couple of houses north of MWW right on the river. He has a mother-in-law suite that he STRs and is doing well. It's his numbers I am reading to potentially pull the trigger on a property. Ideally, one where I can both live and STR maybe my camper or an ADU. I like the thought of living halfway between Big Sky and Bozeman as the pool of ladies for an eligible bachelor is slim here in Big Sky and I am not getting any younger!
I currently own an STR in the Mountain Village and an STR in the Meadow Village (launched in 2014) and both are having their best year yet on the vacation rental market. I would like to add a Canyon property to complete my portfolio set of Big Sky Mountain, Meadow, and Canyon properties.
It's a crazy expensive and competitive market out there for a small guy like me! I wish I would have been a little savvier in 2007 when I moved to Bozeman and 2011 when I moved to Big Sky and been more hip to the real estate game. But I was still a young guy then with only student debt to my name!
So what would you recommend a 31-year-old looking to invest in more properties do here in Big Sky? My thoughts are hustle, get creative and the Gallatin Canyon..... too me has the most potential to find a diamond in the rough that will cash flow well and could potentially be in my price range. I really want a property that needs some sweat equity. I am also currently living out of my camper (see fox news article above) as I STR both my places in Big Sky.
I have a good amount of cash ready to execute on a deal if I can shake one up and I think a Direct Mail Marketing campaign might be the ticket or I straight go door knocking.
It's not easy being a little fresh fish in the big boys playground but I won't let it get my hopes down!
If you know of any deals in the area or have any advice for a guy like me, let me know!
Cheers,
Corey
As an example, I just got an email about a home in Bozeman right near MSU. You would easily cover the mortgage plus generate cashflow renting as STR. But a bank would never consider this (I use my STR income to qualify, but I'm incorporated and have been paying Federal tax on my income for 5+ years, so unless you are in this boat, you will need to qualify LTR - my loans aren't special either, they are 5% commercial, but at least I can refi those after I purchase).
So let's play around with some numbers here for the heck of it. Let's say that the asking is $675k. Almost no chance of an offer below asking these days (I have MLS statistics to back that statement up with), and this would not qualify for FHA, as it is outside the high limit on the loan to value ratio... So that leaves you with 20-25% down. 20% will get you hit with PMI, so always go as much as possible, so let's say 25%. That's a hefty chunk of change, but the down will be around $165k or so. Let's say this hypothetical home has an apartment you can live in, and rent the home for a conservative LTR of $2300. You will need a lease to bring to the bank, so no way out of that if you want to use the 75% of gross rents towards your debt to income ratio!
So, 675-165 = $510k loan, @ 2.9% = $2123/mth + $300/mth tax, $120/mth insurance = $2543 PITI, call it $2800/mth after utilities are thrown in. Then you've got a lease for $2300 x 0.75 = $1725 towards your debt to income. This leave you with $1075 to cover on that mortgage. Any bank will accept those numbers, and any under writer will understand what you are doing there.
Now if you are in the STR business you can see that $2800/mth is easy to cover, if not to double that with gross rents. Unfortunately you can't use those numbers, so just qualify however you can, and do what you wish with the home after the fact (assuming you didn't sign up for an FHA which has restrictions).
So if you make over $3k/mth and have $165k just sitting around, this home would make a nice income for you and satisfy the debt to income the bank is looking for (which is like around 43% - don't quote me on that), and you would live rent free in a desirable location near campus, with plenty of ladies for you to meet :). Where there is a will, there is a way. If you wanted to cash out some equity (I always keep my money in my property instead of the bank), you could potentially make it work. You can always sell a property if you've built up some value too.
This is literally the first email in my inbox. I get listings like this most days.
@Corey Meyer I wrote a blog on marketing to seniors here on Bigger Pockets.
The biggest thing on ANY campaign is to focus on the benefits you can offer to the seller. If someone is thinking about selling; Why are they hesitant to start the process? Because it is hard when they use the traditional method. You need to address those fears and preconceived notions.
Selling your house will be easier than you think!
Good luck. I was in Condon this summer for a small wedding. It's a wonderful area.
Hi @Corey Meyer I would recommend sending that list of property addresses owners a blind offer! I do that exactly I use a letter template 2 pages the first being a cover page expressing interest and letting them know who I am and what I do and the second page being a PA with an offer and place for the seller to sign. I got that template from Offers 2 owners