Tenants suggesting unit is not habitable, escrowed rent

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Tenants suggesting unit is not habitable, escrowed rent

Tyler Hahn
Waynesboro, PA · Member since 2020 · 14 posts · 9 votes

Hey, I have a triplex in PA where one tenant is suggesting their unit is not habitable, yet I think it is.

Quick Backstory: I bought the house 2/2021 and inherited these tenants. The lease ended 11/2021 and we went MTM after that because they suggested they were planning to move out ASAP. The next month 12/2021 they pay about 90% of the rent and give me a letter stating windows and doors need done asap. As well as the stair railing needing fixed and a hole in the floor being fixed. The stair railing absolutely needs fixed as it would be a safety issue.

Anyway, a month goes by and they withhold 1/2022s rent in an escrow saying I didn't make the fixes in their letter. I agree they should be able to repair and deduct for the railing. But,they smoke inside (against the lease) and therefore I have said I wouldn't replace doors and windows with them doing that because of additional damage it causes.

Other than that, when they didn't pay that would've broken our lease I would've thought. But also, would I be able to have an inspector come in and look at the doors/windows/hole to see if they affect habitability? Would that be enough to say in court that they can't withhold for those issues.

Any suggestions? Thanks!

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Caroline Gerardo
Lender · Washington DC · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
4y

A mistake to allow tenants to do repairs, sets a precedence you should not cross. Fix the rail today. Start eviction today. Take photos today. 

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  • Caroline Gerardo
    Lender · Washington DC · Member since 2015 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    A mistake to allow tenants to do repairs, sets a precedence you should not cross. Fix the rail today. Start eviction today. Take photos today. 

    4Reply
  • Joe Martella
    Rental Property Investor · Cherry Hill, NJ · Member since 2015 · 626 posts · 495 votes
    4y

    How come you aren't doing the repairs or sending someone to do the repairs?  How do you know they are getting the repairs done properly?  You would want to address safety issues immediately.  It seems that your tenant is documenting repairs that need to be completed and are preparing for if/when you go to court.

    Perhaps it is a time to talk to an attorney.

    1Reply
  • Adam Martin
    Rental Property Investor · Member since 2020 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    4y

    This seems like a lot of work that needs to be completed and with the house not habitable you need it vacant ASAP so you can do the work.  Also how does a floor get a hole in it and it not be the tenants fault.  Get the handrail fixed asap since this is an actual safety issue and do the rest when they are gone.  What specifically do they say is wrong with the windows and doors that cause them to need replaced because this is a large expense and if they are not functional your inspection should show that.  

    0Reply
  • Michael Salamone
    Rental Property Investor · CT · Member since 2020 · 28 posts · 17 votes
    4y

    @Tyler Hahn

    This might not be helpful at the moment, but in the future do a walk around inspection with them once you become the new landlord. I’m not sure if deceptive is the right word to use about them saying they would leave, and they still haven’t, but the whole scenario leaves a funky feeling.

    Fix that hand rail with (hopefully with a licensed contractor so you have documentation), and hire an attorney

    Tenants rights can get funny in this case because they can argue in court that you are evicting them for retaliatory purposes and don’t want to fix the unit. It might be worth having the windows and doors fixed, and THEN sending the Notice to Quit/Eviction process

    Best,

    Michael

    1Reply
  • Gavin Shiraishi
    Property Manager · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2011 · 11 posts · 5 votes
    4y

    @Tyler Hahn I agree with them hire the attorney and seek their advice as they would know the real estate laws best in your area.

    0Reply
  • Matt M.
    Specialist · Easton, PA · Member since 2018 · 1k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    4y

    @Tyler Hahn

    Pa guy here.

    File eviction or send notice of non renewal of month to month. Fix up the unit and re rent for more.

    Where in Pa?

    2Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    4y

    I would have repaired the railing myself (or paid someone to do it).  As for the others, you need to keep things separate. If they are smoking and in violation of the lease, then you can evict them for that.  For the windows and doors, are they making the house uninhabitable?  If it is a case that they are older and not energy efficient, I doubt it plus flags would have been raised when you had the place inspected at the time of purchase. I'd tell them the windows and doors will be replaced down the road, but they are fine for now and no problems were raised by the inspector regarding urgent need to replace windows and doors at the time of the inspection a few months ago.

    With a hole in the floor is that a hole in the flooring or literally a hole through the floor and sub floor?  Again unless that is due to water damage or rot, the tenant would have caused this.

    As another person pointed out, now that they have raised flags you may have problems with an eviction as they will feel it is retaliatory.  Got a window person in to check the windows and see which need to be replaced now.  This gives you yet another independent person to verify their condition (the property inspector being the first one).

    0Reply
  • Tyler Hahn
    OP
    Waynesboro, PA · Member since 2020 · 14 posts · 9 votes
    4y

    @Matt M.

    Franklin County.

    Yes, I would like to do what you suggest. Fix up after they leave and re rent for more

    0Reply
  • Tyler Hahn
    OP
    Waynesboro, PA · Member since 2020 · 14 posts · 9 votes
    4y

    Thanks everyone.

    I guess to wrap up some common questions the unit, in my opinion, is habitable. So that's the issue between me and the tenant is that they are withholding suggesting it's not and I have the belief it is. Inspection showed that the doors/windows are older but nothing about them making the property uninhabitable.

    As for an attorney, I have talked to one and am looking further into that process. My problem with evicting now is that I think they would consider it retaliation and that's obviously not good. I do wonder if the fact that they didn't pay their rent/smoked inside breaking the lease agreement if that would get me out of that though? So, I'm not sure.

    Over the past month I honestly forgot the railing was an issue so I never got to fix it. I have looked into having someone do that and should have it done pretty soon. Just a bad job on my end on this part.

    Lastly, the hole in the floor I have no idea about. They told me about it a month ago and I have no clue if it was there when they got the unit or after, it never showed up on my initial inspection to buy the property.

    0Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    4y

    Other PA guy here. OK, so what I understand from your profile and from the rest of the stuff you've posted, you actually live in one of the other triplex units. In Franklin County, PA. Population 155,932. Median household income: $31,630.

    I'm fleshing out what you wrote and noting for everyone who doesn't do business in PA that it is specifically illegal to evict for retaliation in the Commonwealth.

    You are going to have a hell of a time convincing any local district magisterial judge that this is a simple open-and-shut case given that and the long, convoluted story of this brouhaha that you've laid out. You're not going to win any case by showing a PA DMJ pictures of clearly damaged doors and windows and insisting that you won't fix them as long as the tenants are smoking inside. Have you really thought about how that argument would go down? Picture it in your mind. Remember, you are seated to the judge's left. The judge will know you live in the triplex. It's going to be hard to explain that you've owned the place for a year and didn't fix the railing and know squat about the hole in the floor.

    Borrow money. Fix the place. Collect the rent. Send the registered mail that the M2M up up. Post the 30-day notice on the door. Don't hold the nail square on your chest for the judge to hang you on the courthouse wall and make an example of you. That's how s/he gets re-elected.

    You should also remember, that if you do go into buying and holding in an impoverished county with data like Franklin's, the chances that you're going to come before the same DMJ in the future for something else are pretty high. And beyond that, there are only 7 DMJs in Franklin. They all know each other, trust me. Their clerk does a search for you in the Unified PA Court database, they see you on some other local judge's docket in the past for this kind of thing, they'll pick up the phone and talk. This will come back to haunt you.

    3Reply
  • Steve K.
    Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    @Tyler Hahn lead time on most windows is 6 months to a year right now anyway, 7-8 weeks on doors so I would order those up. Hopefully the tenants will be long gone by the time the doors and windows arrive, and if you end up in front of a judge you can show them the receipts. I’d give those tenants the “happy clause” (“you don’t seem happy here so why don’t you leave”), or simply give them the non-renewal notice and get them out of there ASAP.

    1Reply
  • Tyler Hahn
    OP
    Waynesboro, PA · Member since 2020 · 14 posts · 9 votes
    4y

    @Steve K.

    Hey Steve, thanks for the input.

    Do you think that the non renewal would be an issue with them currently withholding rent, as they are suggesting uninhabitability?

    I would like to do a non renewal of the lease but am worried about them suggesting retaliation.

    0Reply
  • Jim K.
    Handyman · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2018 · 5k+ posts · 13k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Tyler Hahn:

    @Steve K.

    Hey Steve, thanks for the input.

    Do you think that the non renewal would be an issue with them currently withholding rent, as they are suggesting uninhabitability?

    I would like to do a non renewal of the lease but am worried about them suggesting retaliation.

    Oh, wow, Tyler. Steve lives and operates in Colorado. @Matt M. and I live next to you. I know it's not advice you want to hear, but it's the most relevant in the thread. Hell yeah, they're going to suggest retaliation, and the DMJ is going to listen to them, because...drumroll...it's obviously retaliation!

    Matt and I got you to the water. Drink if you want.

    1Reply
  • Steve K.
    Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y

    @Tyler Hahn I would defer to a lawyer on this (I’m not one). In my layman’s opinion it seems like a non-renewal is needed because they chose not to leave when they said they would, and you need the unit vacant in order to make the necessary repairs to address the issues.

    0Reply
  • Steve K.
    Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes
    4y
    Originally posted by @Jim K.:
    Originally posted by @Tyler Hahn:

    @Steve K.

    Hey Steve, thanks for the input.

    Do you think that the non renewal would be an issue with them currently withholding rent, as they are suggesting uninhabitability?

    I would like to do a non renewal of the lease but am worried about them suggesting retaliation.

    Oh, wow, Tyler. Steve lives and operates in Colorado. @Matt M. and I live next to you. I know it's not advice you want to hear, but it's the most relevant in the thread. Hell yeah, they're going to suggest retaliation, and the DMJ is going to listen to them, because...drumroll...it's obviously retaliation!

    Matt and I got you to the water. Drink if you want.

    What, Sheriffs don't execute evictions within 48 hours there? In Colorado we like to say "You pay, you stay. You don't, you won't."

    1Reply
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