Advice requested: Health Nut tenant sandwiched between 2 Chain Smoking Tenants
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Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
6moQuote from @Robert T.:
@Richard F. Thanks, I will be adding a smoking policy for all future listings/leases for my multi-family properties
Check your local laws regarding smoking "other than" normal tobacco, you might need to include specific language in your Agreement to cover all the bases. Medical MJ for smoking can be prohibited also if it is available in "other forms", depending on local law. That's the way it is here.
There was a time when smoke filled bars and other hang outs didn't bother me, even though I never smoked. Now, I can smell someone lighting up 4 cars ahead of me driving to the store!
28 Replies
- Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes6mo
What are the local Smoking Laws? They may not be able to smoke within specified distance. Of course, that means they can smoke inside, and you'll have fun painting when they move out. But that ship has probably already sailed.
When do the various rental terms end? Again, depending on local law, you can usually implement new rules with specified advance notice.
- Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 46 posts · 21 votes6mo
My searches on local laws have not come up with anything regarding a required distance tenants need to smoke from others.
Apt C ends in 3 months and Apt A ends in 11 months.
- Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes6mo
Quote from @Robert T.:
My searches on local laws have not come up with anything regarding a required distance tenants need to smoke from others.
Apt C ends in 3 months and Apt A ends in 11 months
@Robert T. Smoking is a problem if you allow it for sure. You need to inform prospective applicants before they submit, and again prior to signing, and you should have an written acknowledgement if they agree that they are aware Smoking is allowed in all of the units. If you choose to NOT allow it, add it to your House Rules or within the Special Terms of the Rental Agreement, and post signage so Visitors are aware. Be sure you mention whether smoking is allowed or not in all advertising to avoid wasting time.
- Investor · Akron, OH · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 4k+ votes6moDo you plan to institute a non-smoking policy at the end of the smoker's leases? Did she know about the smokers before she moved in? You could probably designate an outdoor smoking area on the property. Get a picnic table or some outdoor chairs and tell the smokers she's worried about kids health and have them smoke in a designated area. They would probably be okay with that. Most smokers are use to it by now.
- Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 46 posts · 21 votes6mo
I'd like to designate a non-smoking policy, but I'm worried I'd lose 2 tenants.
When the health nut moved in, only Apt C was smoking and I doubt she was aware of it when she moved in as I never thought to mention it. Then the Apt A tenant left and the new Apt A tenant(who just moved in 3 weeks ago) happened to be a smoker also(it never occurred to me ask ask the new Apt A tenant if she was a smoker). The health nut's been their for a couple of years, but has only be sandwiched between 2 smokers for the 3 weeks, which is why this situation escalated.
I'm probably going to try the designated smoker area idea. Hopefully they go for it. Thanks!
- Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 46 posts · 21 votes6mo
@Richard F. Thanks, I will be adding a smoking policy for all future listings/leases for my multi-family properties
- Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes6moSounds like a plan. When current Tenants move out, wash the walls with TSP solution first, then apply Kilz as a primer to seal any remaining residue in, then apply your paint. Some guys here state that an ozone generator is good for removing the smell from carpets, I've never tried it, but you might search the site on that topic. Good Luck with the B Tenant!
Quote from @Robert T.:
@Richard F. Thanks, I will be adding a smoking policy for all future listings/leases for my multi-family properties
Check your local laws regarding smoking "other than" normal tobacco, you might need to include specific language in your Agreement to cover all the bases. Medical MJ for smoking can be prohibited also if it is available in "other forms", depending on local law. That's the way it is here.
There was a time when smoke filled bars and other hang outs didn't bother me, even though I never smoked. Now, I can smell someone lighting up 4 cars ahead of me driving to the store! - Member since 2023 · 243 posts · 199 votes6mo
Quote from @Richard F.:
Sounds like a plan. When current Tenants move out, wash the walls with TSP solution first, then apply Kilz as a primer to seal any remaining residue in, then apply your paint. Some guys here state that an ozone generator is good for removing the smell from carpets, I've never tried it, but you might search the site on that topic. Good Luck with the B Tenant!Quote from @Robert T.:
@Richard F. Thanks, I will be adding a smoking policy for all future listings/leases for my multi-family properties
I had a house filled w/ smoke from both smokers and the furnace upon purchase. Instead of TSP, which does work, I used soot sponges and simple green. Way safer and it got rid of it. Kilz resolves it completely but I had to cover the ceilings too. Once its done, its done.
Ozone generators do work but remove all organic items like plants or leather couches. They aren't cheap and you don't use it often.I don't recommend asking the tenant on what you should do.
Another hardcore approach is to place ashtray stands w/ silica in designated areas. Yes, that is possible maintenance but they would then gravitate towards it. It would help especially if they just throw their buds everywhere.
- 6moDrew SygitBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
Quote from @Robert T.:
hi,
I own a triplex in FL in Pinellas County, FL.
Apt A: Chain Smoker, sits outside smoking non-stop the entire day
Apt B: Health nut with 3 children
Apt C: Chain Smoker, sits outside smoking non-stop the entire day
The Apt B tenant is very upset at smelling smoke all the time coming from Apt A and Apt C. She has about 3 children and she doesn't let them play outside when the Apt A or Apt C tenant is outside smoking because she feels it is bad for their health. She also closes her windows because she doesn't want the smoke entering her apartment. She wants me to do something about Apt A and Apt C smoking all the time. She's upset her children can rarely go outside(due to the smoke) and she's upset she can't open her windows(due to the smoke). She wants me to do something. Could someone please advise what I should do? I'm somewhat sympathetic to her, as smoke would bother me as well(although not to the degree that it bothers her). None of the tenants leases say they are not allowed to smoke outside and I feel I'm required to respect that fact.
Ask Tenant B SPECIFICALLY what she expects you to do!
What open-ended questions can you ask her to lead her to figuring out there's really nothing you can do unless there's a lease violation?
Logical Property Management4.9459 Reviews - Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 46 posts · 21 votes6mo
@Drew Sygit I have tried asking her what specially she wants me to do and she had no ideas on what I should do. And then she ended her message telling me she's very disturbed by this and she wants me to address it immediately.
- 6moDrew SygitBusiness MemberProperty Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 12k+ posts · 9k+ votes
Quote from @Robert T.:
@Drew Sygit I have tried asking her what specially she wants me to do and she had no ideas on what I should do. And then she ended her message telling me she's very disturbed by this and she wants me to address it immediately.
Keep putting the ball back in her court.
Tenants are INFAMOUS for wanting other people to solve their problems!
NEVER forget, they are tenants for a reason!
Logical Property Management4.9459 Reviews
- Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes6mo
In most places tenants have a right to “quiet enjoyment” which means landlords must take action against other tenants who cause excessive noise or disturbances that disrupt their right to enjoy their dwelling. Honestly it sounds like the smokers are a nuisance, and that they are infringing upon your non-smoking tenets right to quiet enjoyment. All of my properties are non-smoking anywhere and when I have bought properties with smokers in them, I get them out as soon as possible. I would let the smokers know that it is no longer allowed and add a no-smoking clause to the lease effective immediately.
- Real Estate Agent · Memphis · Member since 2026 · 576 posts · 339 votes6mo
That's a tough setup... and you're right, without anything in the lease restricting smoking, your options are a bit limited enforcement.
At this point, it's less about stopping the behavior and more about managing the impact. What I've seen work in similar situations is creating some structure around where smoking happens rather than trying to eliminate it entirely.
For example, designating a specific smoking area away from shared spaces or windows can at least reduce how much it affects the other tenants. It's not perfect, but it gives you something reasonable to point to.
You can also have a direct (but neutral) conversation with the smokers — not as enforcement but just setting expectations around being mindful or proximity to doors/windows when possible.
Longer term, this is usually something that gets addressed at the lease level. If it keeps coming up, adding clearer smoking policies on renewals (or transitioning toward a non-smoking property) gives you more control going forward.
In the short term, you're really balancing two reasonable positions... so it's more about reducing friction than fully solving it.
- Lender · Jacksonville, FL · Member since 2026 · 46 posts · 17 votes6mo
I am in Florida as well and would be shocked if it's legal for you to require the smokers to be a certain distance from their residence. Definitely check that before you make a requirement. Other than that, I think the smoking table away from the building is a great idea to try. I fully understand why the non-smoker is upset but there's little you can do at this point.
- 6moTheresa HarrisPro MemberMember since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
Ask the two smokers politely if they would mind sitting away from the building when they are smoking as one of the other tenants has complained about the smell of smoke.
See what businesses in the areas do in terms of distance-if it isn't feasible (eg 100 ft would put them in the middle of the street), then tell her she's out of luck. If there is nothing about it being a non-smoking building and nothing in the lease, tell her you sympathize with her, but nothing can be done. You could put a picnic table (see if there is something for free or used online) in the back away from the units and make it a nice spot for them to see.
As tenant B has no solutions, then I'd ask her what the hell she expects you to do if she can't propose any solutions. If they are truly sitting out there all the time-do they not have jobs?
- Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes6mo
You definitely cannot just change the rules "immediately" as someone else suggested. In most jurisdictions, you would need a minimum of 30 days advance notice, IF you even have the option. A year long term is for the whole agreement, not just the parts you like. The only exception is with change of ownership/management you can change where and how rent is paid with proper written notice, but that is all.
Review your rental agreements and local law for that specific issue.
Your other option is to offer either B, or A and C, cash for keys to break their Agreement and vacate in 30 - 45 days.
- Realtor · Boulder, CO · Member since 2016 · 3k+ posts · 5k+ votes6mo
Quote from @Richard F.:
You definitely cannot just change the rules "immediately" as someone else suggested. In most jurisdictions, you would need a minimum of 30 days advance notice, IF you even have the option. A year long term is for the whole agreement, not just the parts you like. The only exception is with change of ownership/management you can change where and how rent is paid with proper written notice, but that is all.
Review your rental agreements and local law for that specific issue.
Your other option is to offer either B, or A and C, cash for keys to break their Agreement and vacate in 30 - 45 days.
Sounds like you have it handled but just in case the smoking continues being a problem: I disagree that you have to provide notice or can't actively prevent secondhand smoke from causing problems with other tenants at your property immediately as others have stated here. You can actually stop it immediately or evict if you choose to. Here's why: whatever it says or doesn't say in the lease, this issue would supercede the lease anyway, because their actions are violating another tenant's right to use and enjoy a neighboring unit.
Example: Merrill v. Bosser: A Florida court sided with a tenant who successfully argued that her neighbor's smoking was trespass, a nuisance, and violated her right to quiet enjoyment. ( No. 05-4239 COCE 53 (Broward County Ct., June 29, 2005).
As the landlord you have to protect your tenant's rights. There is a legal right to "quiet enjoyment", but there is no legal right to smoke. Just because the lease doesn't specifically say "no smoking" that does not mean they are allowed to do so even if their secondhand smoke drifts into their neighbors place and interferes with that neighbors right to use and enjoy their unit. This stems from basic common law: one persons rights only go so far as infringing on another persons rights. There is also plenty of legal precedent where tenants have been evicted from units where smoking is allowed when their secondhand smoke created a nuisance or safety issue for their neighbors.
You can and should (it could even be argued that you are required to) take action or this could become a habitability issue for the non-smoker tenant. Be civil and respectful of everyone of course, if you can find a compromise and don't have to evict the smokers, that's great. But know that you probably can ban smoking there or even evict if you need to, based on the smokers creating a nuisance and violating the non-smoking neighbors right to quiet enjoyment. You don't need to provide notice to address a safety or nuisance violation. I certainly wouldn't resort to cash for keys, why would you do that when you could just evict instead if it comes down to it? I hate cash for keys personally, would never do it based on principle, and especially would never do it when eviction is a better option.
As the landlord, you make the rules (within the law of course, which in this case is on your side if you want to stop secondhand smoke from being a problem at your property).
- Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 46 posts · 21 votes6mo
Thanks everybody.
I've asked them both to smoke in an area near the back that is behind a fence. I'm hoping they do so.
@Jim Johnson I may update their leases the next time their leases expire to make it a non-smoking property. (or if not that, I'm going to have their lease specify where the only allowed smoking area is) The issue with making it a non-smoking property is they are almost definitely going to choose not to renew if I do that.
@Theresa Harris The reason why they are able to sit outside smoking all day is because one works from home and the other is on permanent disability.
@Richard F. A cash for keys thing to get them to break their lease and vacate would fix this, but I have no desire to do that. I feel bad for the health nut but I'm not paying the smokers to leave early to appease her.
- Real Estate Broker · Atlanta · Member since 2024 · 1k+ posts · 606 votes6mo
That is a tough situation, especially since the leases don’t restrict outdoor smoking. All of my properties are non-smoking and I believe it makes sense for most landlords to adopt that policy given the health risks to non-smokers. I completely understand the concerns of the mother and her children. It is difficult to imagine living in an environment where you have to keep your windows closed and limit outdoor activity because of smokers. I am actually surprised she hasn’t requested to break her lease.
For now, your options may be limited but you could try establishing reasonable boundaries, such as designated smoking areas away from windows and doors, and communicate respectfully with all tenants. At renewal, consider implementing a non-smoking policy to prevent this issue going forward.
- Tampa, FL · Member since 2015 · 46 posts · 21 votes6mo
@Steve K. Thanks! this is good to know and may be needed as there is indication the smokers are ignoring my request to use the smoking area. One did not follow it yesterday evening(I don't know about the other). Hopefully they just needed a day to adjust to it and they will start using the smoking area today.
- Valhalla, NY · Member since 2013 · 132 posts · 84 votes6mo
Let the tenant know that you have informed the other 2 tenants that they can no longer smoke in front of the property. You show that you took her problem and attempted to resolve it by creating a designated smoking area for the other tenants. If they fail to utilize this area just continuously remind them that with respect to other tenants please use that location. 95% of problems people just want to be heard, if the problem consists you continue to kindly remind the tenants. If nothing changes then seek other routes in the future.
- 6moColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Robert T. I hope you have made the smoking area a good alternative with chairs and some kind of butt receptacle as that is a big part of making them routinely use it. It may not be as convenient a space but if its as comfortable maybe its makes the adjustment happen. I had some smokers in one unit and they only stopped flicking the butts when I put out one of those butt receptacles. I don't know why smokers think butts aren't litter. but minimum chairs when they are sitting on the porch smoking now.
Also if you have doubts make them month to month on renewal and/or get rid of them. Your biggest issue is going to be getting them to do this in all weather and that means you have interior smoking even if you say its not allowed.
- New to Real Estate · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2023 · 83 posts · 29 votes6mo
Hard one, especially if the lease is silent on smoking outside.
- Real Estate Agent · Chicago, IL · Member since 2017 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes6mo
Simply tell them to take it up with each other as adults, not in your control if they smoke outside their unit and just stop responding to them if keep complaining. Also offer to let her out of the lease with 30 days notice.
- 6moColleen F.Pro MemberInvestor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
@Robert T. if you let her out of the lease due to the smoking which you could do. You are committing to a smoking building so make sure your next tenants is a smoker. And even some smokers don't want to be always smelling like smoke. Me I don't want the damage and fire risk.
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