Investing in Calgary

Investor · Vancouver, BC · Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for opportunities in Calgary, multi family preferred. Just wonder if anyone knows how the rental market is? Is anyone investing in Calgary? How is the cash flow? Can anyone make some comments? Thanks in advance.

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Stevo Sun

Calgary, AB · Member since 2021 · 327 posts · 176 votes

Quote from @Khai Hong:

Quote from @Sam Su:

Quote from @Khai Hong:

Hi @Sam Su, you'd be better off looking just a little outside of Calgary, like Airdrie or Lethbridge, better bang for your buck. I listen to several Canadian REI podcasts, and it sounds like a lot of experienced investors have been flocking to Calgary as of late. And given the recent rate rises, with more to come, it's going to be tough to compete directly with them. If you're thinking of investing remotely anyway, then also consider the Atlantic provinces, and dig deeper into which places have the most potential business & population growth. Wherever you end up choosing, it'd be best to add some healthy repair & vacancy contingencies into your underwriting. Here's a good discussion about landlord friendly provinces

Whats the best province to Invest in real estate in canada (biggerpockets.com)

Btw, did you get any good leads from Anthony? I'm surprised he doesn't outright post all the properties that he thinks are investor-friendly. As a realtor, that should be a great way to make oneself stand out and attract clients.

Be conservative with your expectations, don't be dazzled by numbers like $1500/m - that's probably from a property that was purchased 10 years ago. Even with $300/m, a hot water tank replacement or furnace repair could wipe out a few years of income. So decide clearly if you need the rental income, or if you're building equity by having other people pay down a mortgage for you.

Hi khai, thanks very much for your input. Yes, Anthony did send me something and has been helpful.

Also, I am actually thinking about Nova Scotia as well. But I have look into it yet. It is kind of too far from Vancouver.

Btw, as you said, you are looking in Vancouver as well. What's your target if I may ask? Flipping or rental income? To me, it just can't make the numbers to be working for rental. I know long term appreciation Vancouver is always good for sure.

HI Sam, distance is just a mindset :) It's all just a phone call away. Or if (once) you have a good system and team in place, then not even many phone calls. You could probably get 2 properties in NS for the price of one in AB, spread out your risk a little, but more time up front to set up. Another thing to consider is the likely appreciation. To my mind, the performance in NS is a nice steady climb, whereas AB is more dependent on the economy, so pick your preference. Here's a price chart (ignore 2020-21)

CREA | Try the MLS® HPI Tool

I'm currently looking in Vancouver (and Burnaby) because I want to move my family out of our condo in New West. I'm looking either to trade up to a house for $1.6M or less, or buy another condo ($600k or less) and rent out my current one. House hacking is part of the plan in both cases. The house would have to be fairly turn key with rooms for renting out, or another condo would also have to be live-in ready with the potential to add value through floor plan hacking. So, yeah, I have pretty specific requirements.

You're right about rentals not making sense anymore in Vancouver, you can only get about half of the monthly mortgage cost, unless the property was purchased more than 5 years ago. And even short term rentals don't work if you follow the 30 day limit. I don't know how strictly the city enforces that limit, but it's pretty easy to see how many nights were booked on the airbnb app. The only rental strategy that still kind of works is house hacking. Some rough numbers for you to consider: values have doubled almost exactly every 10 years in Vancouver since 1980, so if you rent out a room for $900/m on $500k property, you'd get about $100k income plus another $500k appreciation in 10 years. And in about 5 years, there should be about 200k of equity to use for investing elsewhere. No guarantees, of course, but even 75% of that would be quite good. It would be very optimistic to expect even half of that in either AB or NS. That's why I'm going to find ways to stay around Vancouver.

I disagree with managing long distant property is 'just a mind set'. I think it's about a good team that you can trust. Those are not exactly easy to come by, even locally. I think if you are just getting started or this is just a side hustle, long distance management would be hard. I would be patient and look for local opportunities to get started. It might take a while to get started but it will build over time.

If you are just counting on appreciation I would just say since the 80s the interest rate in Canada has steadily dropped. Inflation over time has also helped increase the house price. We seem to be in a rising interest rate environment for the near term so that could impact the speed of house value appreciation.

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Stevo Sun
Calgary, AB · Member since 2021 · 327 posts · 176 votes
4y
Quote from @Sam Su:

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for opportunities in Calgary, multi family preferred. Just wonder if anyone knows how the rental market is? Is anyone investing in Calgary? How is the cash flow? Can anyone make some comments? Thanks in advance.
I'm in Calgary! The market is okay I think. Nothing crazy, there is a lot of rental inventory and comparably the population is no where near what Toronto and Vancouver. So I don't think there's a big squeeze or anything. The prices are going up because of inflation (eg. Interest rate, property tax, etc). If you have a lot of capital and don't rely on debt then it is probably not bad.
1 Reply
Sam Su
OP
Investor · Vancouver, BC · Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes
4y
Quote from @Stevo Sun:

Quote from @Sam Su:

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for opportunities in Calgary, multi family preferred. Just wonder if anyone knows how the rental market is? Is anyone investing in Calgary? How is the cash flow? Can anyone make some comments? Thanks in advance.
I'm in Calgary! The market is okay I think. Nothing crazy, there is a lot of rental inventory and comparably the population is no where near what Toronto and Vancouver. So I don't think there's a big squeeze or anything. The prices are going up because of inflation (eg. Interest rate, property tax, etc). If you have a lot of capital and don't rely on debt then it is probably not bad.

Thanks very much for the info. So basically if I put say 30% down payment, the rental will not cover the expenses? Is that correct? And the vacancy is kind of high? if I got it right from what you were saying.
0 Reply
Stevo Sun
Calgary, AB · Member since 2021 · 327 posts · 176 votes
4y
Quote from @Sam Su:

Quote from @Stevo Sun:

Quote from @Sam Su:

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for opportunities in Calgary, multi family preferred. Just wonder if anyone knows how the rental market is? Is anyone investing in Calgary? How is the cash flow? Can anyone make some comments? Thanks in advance.
I'm in Calgary! The market is okay I think. Nothing crazy, there is a lot of rental inventory and comparably the population is no where near what Toronto and Vancouver. So I don't think there's a big squeeze or anything. The prices are going up because of inflation (eg. Interest rate, property tax, etc). If you have a lot of capital and don't rely on debt then it is probably not bad.

Thanks very much for the info. So basically if I put say 30% down payment, the rental will not cover the expenses? Is that correct? And the vacancy is kind of high? if I got it right from what you were saying.
Obviously it is very property dependent, but you should do more analysis. Calgary has a lot of new apartment buildings so there's no shortage in that market. The property prices for single family and such have gone up a lot in the last couple years (nothing like Toronto or Vancouver) so cash flowing is a bit more challenging. You can still make it work, but if you are going to rely on property management and you are not local it would be harder I think.
2 Reply
Sam Su
OP
Investor · Vancouver, BC · Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes
4y
Quote from @Stevo Sun:

Quote from @Sam Su:

Quote from @Stevo Sun:

Quote from @Sam Su:

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for opportunities in Calgary, multi family preferred. Just wonder if anyone knows how the rental market is? Is anyone investing in Calgary? How is the cash flow? Can anyone make some comments? Thanks in advance.
I'm in Calgary! The market is okay I think. Nothing crazy, there is a lot of rental inventory and comparably the population is no where near what Toronto and Vancouver. So I don't think there's a big squeeze or anything. The prices are going up because of inflation (eg. Interest rate, property tax, etc). If you have a lot of capital and don't rely on debt then it is probably not bad.

Thanks very much for the info. So basically if I put say 30% down payment, the rental will not cover the expenses? Is that correct? And the vacancy is kind of high? if I got it right from what you were saying.
Obviously it is very property dependent, but you should do more analysis. Calgary has a lot of new apartment buildings so there's no shortage in that market. The property prices for single family and such have gone up a lot in the last couple years (nothing like Toronto or Vancouver) so cash flowing is a bit more challenging. You can still make it work, but if you are going to rely on property management and you are not local it would be harder I think.

I'll do more research for sure. Thanks again for your information. And probably will ask you more questions in the future if you don't mind.
0 Reply
Stevo Sun
Calgary, AB · Member since 2021 · 327 posts · 176 votes
4y
Quote from @Sam Su:

Quote from @Stevo Sun:

Quote from @Sam Su:

Quote from @Stevo Sun:

Quote from @Sam Su:

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for opportunities in Calgary, multi family preferred. Just wonder if anyone knows how the rental market is? Is anyone investing in Calgary? How is the cash flow? Can anyone make some comments? Thanks in advance.
I'm in Calgary! The market is okay I think. Nothing crazy, there is a lot of rental inventory and comparably the population is no where near what Toronto and Vancouver. So I don't think there's a big squeeze or anything. The prices are going up because of inflation (eg. Interest rate, property tax, etc). If you have a lot of capital and don't rely on debt then it is probably not bad.

Thanks very much for the info. So basically if I put say 30% down payment, the rental will not cover the expenses? Is that correct? And the vacancy is kind of high? if I got it right from what you were saying.
Obviously it is very property dependent, but you should do more analysis. Calgary has a lot of new apartment buildings so there's no shortage in that market. The property prices for single family and such have gone up a lot in the last couple years (nothing like Toronto or Vancouver) so cash flowing is a bit more challenging. You can still make it work, but if you are going to rely on property management and you are not local it would be harder I think.

I'll do more research for sure. Thanks again for your information. And probably will ask you more questions in the future if you don't mind.
No problem! Good luck!
0 Reply
Anthony Therrien-Bernard
Realtor · Calgary, Alberta · Member since 2018 · 291 posts · 132 votes
4y
Quote from @Sam Su:

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for opportunities in Calgary, multi family preferred. Just wonder if anyone knows how the rental market is? Is anyone investing in Calgary? How is the cash flow? Can anyone make some comments? Thanks in advance.
Hi @Sam Su
I am an investor-focused Realtor in Calgary and I have been investing here for 10 years. There are still lots of properties that cashflow nicely at 20% down payment, I have one cashflowing at close to $1500 a month but those are extremely rare,however $300-500/month is still quite common. I've been focusing on suited homes as they tend to cashflow better but there are still decent opportunities with larger multi-family.

3 Reply
Sam Su
OP
Investor · Vancouver, BC · Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes
4y
Quote from @Anthony Therrien-Bernard:

Quote from @Sam Su:

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for opportunities in Calgary, multi family preferred. Just wonder if anyone knows how the rental market is? Is anyone investing in Calgary? How is the cash flow? Can anyone make some comments? Thanks in advance.
Hi @Sam Su
I am an investor-focused Realtor in Calgary and I have been investing here for 10 years. There are still lots of properties that cashflow nicely at 20% down payment, I have one cashflowing at close to $1500 a month but those are extremely rare,however $300-500/month is still quite common. I've been focusing on suited homes as they tend to cashflow better but there are still decent opportunities with larger multi-family.

Hi @Anthony Therrien-Bernard, thank you for your info. Can send me some of ones that you think are good? I will DM you my email.
0 Reply
Anthony Therrien-Bernard
Realtor · Calgary, Alberta · Member since 2018 · 291 posts · 132 votes
4y
Quote from @Sam Su:

Quote from @Anthony Therrien-Bernard:

Quote from @Sam Su:

Hello Everyone,

I am looking for opportunities in Calgary, multi family preferred. Just wonder if anyone knows how the rental market is? Is anyone investing in Calgary? How is the cash flow? Can anyone make some comments? Thanks in advance.
Hi @Sam Su
I am an investor-focused Realtor in Calgary and I have been investing here for 10 years. There are still lots of properties that cashflow nicely at 20% down payment, I have one cashflowing at close to $1500 a month but those are extremely rare,however $300-500/month is still quite common. I've been focusing on suited homes as they tend to cashflow better but there are still decent opportunities with larger multi-family.

Hi @Anthony Therrien-Bernard, thank you for your info. Can send me some of ones that you think are good? I will DM you my email.

Of course, I'll message you when I get your email
0 Reply
Khai Hong
Member since 2021 · 20 posts · 18 votes
4y
Hi @Sam Su, you'd be better off looking just a little outside of Calgary, like Airdrie or Lethbridge, better bang for your buck. I listen to several Canadian REI podcasts, and it sounds like a lot of experienced investors have been flocking to Calgary as of late. And given the recent rate rises, with more to come, it's going to be tough to compete directly with them. If you're thinking of investing remotely anyway, then also consider the Atlantic provinces, and dig deeper into which places have the most potential business & population growth. Wherever you end up choosing, it'd be best to add some healthy repair & vacancy contingencies into your underwriting. Here's a good discussion about landlord friendly provinces

Whats the best province to Invest in real estate in canada (biggerpockets.com)

Btw, did you get any good leads from Anthony? I'm surprised he doesn't outright post all the properties that he thinks are investor-friendly. As a realtor, that should be a great way to make oneself stand out and attract clients.
Be conservative with your expectations, don't be dazzled by numbers like $1500/m - that's probably from a property that was purchased 10 years ago. Even with $300/m, a hot water tank replacement or furnace repair could wipe out a few years of income. So decide clearly if you need the rental income, or if you're building equity by having other people pay down a mortgage for you.

1 Reply
Anthony Therrien-Bernard
Realtor · Calgary, Alberta · Member since 2018 · 291 posts · 132 votes
4y
Quote from @Khai Hong:

Hi @Sam Su, you'd be better off looking just a little outside of Calgary, like Airdrie or Lethbridge, better bang for your buck. I listen to several Canadian REI podcasts, and it sounds like a lot of experienced investors have been flocking to Calgary as of late. And given the recent rate rises, with more to come, it's going to be tough to compete directly with them. If you're thinking of investing remotely anyway, then also consider the Atlantic provinces, and dig deeper into which places have the most potential business & population growth. Wherever you end up choosing, it'd be best to add some healthy repair & vacancy contingencies into your underwriting. Here's a good discussion about landlord friendly provinces

Whats the best province to Invest in real estate in canada (biggerpockets.com)

Btw, did you get any good leads from Anthony? I'm surprised he doesn't outright post all the properties that he thinks are investor-friendly. As a realtor, that should be a great way to make oneself stand out and attract clients.
Be conservative with your expectations, don't be dazzled by numbers like $1500/m - that's probably from a property that was purchased 10 years ago. Even with $300/m, a hot water tank replacement or furnace repair could wipe out a few years of income. So decide clearly if you need the rental income, or if you're building equity by having other people pay down a mortgage for you.

Hi Khai,

The property I get $1500/m is a unicorn and I mentioned that those are extremely rare, it was purchased last year. Right now as I mentioned $300-500 is more realistic (self-managed and does include a reserve for repairs and maintenance), depending on the neighbourhood and type of property. You are totally right that some other markets offer a little more cashflow right now, with Sam we are looking at Calgary and surrounding areas including Airdrie. I like your idea of posting good deals on here, however as I understand it, as a Realtor, I am actually not allowed to post those on the forum as the moderators consider this self-promotion, I had a similar post deleted before because of that reason. Reach out if you'd like to discuss working with me and I can send you those directly.
0 Reply
Khai Hong
Member since 2021 · 20 posts · 18 votes
4y
HI @Anthony Therrien-Bernard

Thanks for clarifying. I'm currently living and looking in Vancouver, but I have family and friends in Calgary, so I'll definitely keep you in mind.
1 Reply
Anthony Therrien-Bernard
Realtor · Calgary, Alberta · Member since 2018 · 291 posts · 132 votes
4y
Quote from @Khai Hong:

HI @Anthony Therrien-Bernard

Thanks for clarifying. I'm currently living and looking in Vancouver, but I have family and friends in Calgary, so I'll definitely keep you in mind.

Thanks Khai I appreciate
0 Reply
Sam Su
OP
Investor · Vancouver, BC · Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes
4y
Quote from @Khai Hong:

Hi @Sam Su, you'd be better off looking just a little outside of Calgary, like Airdrie or Lethbridge, better bang for your buck. I listen to several Canadian REI podcasts, and it sounds like a lot of experienced investors have been flocking to Calgary as of late. And given the recent rate rises, with more to come, it's going to be tough to compete directly with them. If you're thinking of investing remotely anyway, then also consider the Atlantic provinces, and dig deeper into which places have the most potential business & population growth. Wherever you end up choosing, it'd be best to add some healthy repair & vacancy contingencies into your underwriting. Here's a good discussion about landlord friendly provinces

Whats the best province to Invest in real estate in canada (biggerpockets.com)

Btw, did you get any good leads from Anthony? I'm surprised he doesn't outright post all the properties that he thinks are investor-friendly. As a realtor, that should be a great way to make oneself stand out and attract clients.
Be conservative with your expectations, don't be dazzled by numbers like $1500/m - that's probably from a property that was purchased 10 years ago. Even with $300/m, a hot water tank replacement or furnace repair could wipe out a few years of income. So decide clearly if you need the rental income, or if you're building equity by having other people pay down a mortgage for you.

Hi khai, thanks very much for your input. Yes, Anthony did send me something and has been helpful.

Also, I am actually thinking about Nova Scotia as well. But I have look into it yet. It is kind of too far from Vancouver.

Btw, as you said, you are looking in Vancouver as well. What's your target if I may ask? Flipping or rental income? To me, it just can't make the numbers to be working for rental. I know long term appreciation Vancouver is always good for sure.

0 Reply
Dwayne Poster
Investor · Van Isle · Member since 2021 · 455 posts · 226 votes
4y
Things were looking good in Calgary just before Covid, but that has changed. I'd suggest Sherwood Park
0 Reply
Sam Su
OP
Investor · Vancouver, BC · Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes
4y
Quote from @Dwayne Poster:

Things were looking good in Calgary just before Covid, but that has changed. I'd suggest Sherwood Park

Thanks for your suggestion.
0 Reply
Khai Hong
Member since 2021 · 20 posts · 18 votes
4y
Quote from @Sam Su:

Quote from @Khai Hong:

Hi @Sam Su, you'd be better off looking just a little outside of Calgary, like Airdrie or Lethbridge, better bang for your buck. I listen to several Canadian REI podcasts, and it sounds like a lot of experienced investors have been flocking to Calgary as of late. And given the recent rate rises, with more to come, it's going to be tough to compete directly with them. If you're thinking of investing remotely anyway, then also consider the Atlantic provinces, and dig deeper into which places have the most potential business & population growth. Wherever you end up choosing, it'd be best to add some healthy repair & vacancy contingencies into your underwriting. Here's a good discussion about landlord friendly provinces

Whats the best province to Invest in real estate in canada (biggerpockets.com)

Btw, did you get any good leads from Anthony? I'm surprised he doesn't outright post all the properties that he thinks are investor-friendly. As a realtor, that should be a great way to make oneself stand out and attract clients.
Be conservative with your expectations, don't be dazzled by numbers like $1500/m - that's probably from a property that was purchased 10 years ago. Even with $300/m, a hot water tank replacement or furnace repair could wipe out a few years of income. So decide clearly if you need the rental income, or if you're building equity by having other people pay down a mortgage for you.

Hi khai, thanks very much for your input. Yes, Anthony did send me something and has been helpful.

Also, I am actually thinking about Nova Scotia as well. But I have look into it yet. It is kind of too far from Vancouver.

Btw, as you said, you are looking in Vancouver as well. What's your target if I may ask? Flipping or rental income? To me, it just can't make the numbers to be working for rental. I know long term appreciation Vancouver is always good for sure.

HI Sam, distance is just a mindset :) It's all just a phone call away. Or if (once) you have a good system and team in place, then not even many phone calls. You could probably get 2 properties in NS for the price of one in AB, spread out your risk a little, but more time up front to set up. Another thing to consider is the likely appreciation. To my mind, the performance in NS is a nice steady climb, whereas AB is more dependent on the economy, so pick your preference. Here's a price chart (ignore 2020-21)

CREA | Try the MLS® HPI Tool

I'm currently looking in Vancouver (and Burnaby) because I want to move my family out of our condo in New West. I'm looking either to trade up to a house for $1.6M or less, or buy another condo ($600k or less) and rent out my current one. House hacking is part of the plan in both cases. The house would have to be fairly turn key with rooms for renting out, or another condo would also have to be live-in ready with the potential to add value through floor plan hacking. So, yeah, I have pretty specific requirements.

You're right about rentals not making sense anymore in Vancouver, you can only get about half of the monthly mortgage cost, unless the property was purchased more than 5 years ago. And even short term rentals don't work if you follow the 30 day limit. I don't know how strictly the city enforces that limit, but it's pretty easy to see how many nights were booked on the airbnb app. The only rental strategy that still kind of works is house hacking. Some rough numbers for you to consider: values have doubled almost exactly every 10 years in Vancouver since 1980, so if you rent out a room for $900/m of a 2br $600k property, you'd get about $100k income plus another $600k appreciation in 10 years. And in about 5 years, there should be about 200k of equity to use for investing elsewhere. No guarantees, of course, but even 75% of that would be quite good. It would be very optimistic to expect even half of that in either AB or NS. That's why I'm going to find ways to stay around Vancouver.
0 Reply
Stevo Sun
Calgary, AB · Member since 2021 · 327 posts · 176 votes
4y
Quote from @Khai Hong:

Quote from @Sam Su:

Quote from @Khai Hong:

Hi @Sam Su, you'd be better off looking just a little outside of Calgary, like Airdrie or Lethbridge, better bang for your buck. I listen to several Canadian REI podcasts, and it sounds like a lot of experienced investors have been flocking to Calgary as of late. And given the recent rate rises, with more to come, it's going to be tough to compete directly with them. If you're thinking of investing remotely anyway, then also consider the Atlantic provinces, and dig deeper into which places have the most potential business & population growth. Wherever you end up choosing, it'd be best to add some healthy repair & vacancy contingencies into your underwriting. Here's a good discussion about landlord friendly provinces

Whats the best province to Invest in real estate in canada (biggerpockets.com)

Btw, did you get any good leads from Anthony? I'm surprised he doesn't outright post all the properties that he thinks are investor-friendly. As a realtor, that should be a great way to make oneself stand out and attract clients.
Be conservative with your expectations, don't be dazzled by numbers like $1500/m - that's probably from a property that was purchased 10 years ago. Even with $300/m, a hot water tank replacement or furnace repair could wipe out a few years of income. So decide clearly if you need the rental income, or if you're building equity by having other people pay down a mortgage for you.

Hi khai, thanks very much for your input. Yes, Anthony did send me something and has been helpful.

Also, I am actually thinking about Nova Scotia as well. But I have look into it yet. It is kind of too far from Vancouver.

Btw, as you said, you are looking in Vancouver as well. What's your target if I may ask? Flipping or rental income? To me, it just can't make the numbers to be working for rental. I know long term appreciation Vancouver is always good for sure.

HI Sam, distance is just a mindset :) It's all just a phone call away. Or if (once) you have a good system and team in place, then not even many phone calls. You could probably get 2 properties in NS for the price of one in AB, spread out your risk a little, but more time up front to set up. Another thing to consider is the likely appreciation. To my mind, the performance in NS is a nice steady climb, whereas AB is more dependent on the economy, so pick your preference. Here's a price chart (ignore 2020-21)

CREA | Try the MLS® HPI Tool

I'm currently looking in Vancouver (and Burnaby) because I want to move my family out of our condo in New West. I'm looking either to trade up to a house for $1.6M or less, or buy another condo ($600k or less) and rent out my current one. House hacking is part of the plan in both cases. The house would have to be fairly turn key with rooms for renting out, or another condo would also have to be live-in ready with the potential to add value through floor plan hacking. So, yeah, I have pretty specific requirements.

You're right about rentals not making sense anymore in Vancouver, you can only get about half of the monthly mortgage cost, unless the property was purchased more than 5 years ago. And even short term rentals don't work if you follow the 30 day limit. I don't know how strictly the city enforces that limit, but it's pretty easy to see how many nights were booked on the airbnb app. The only rental strategy that still kind of works is house hacking. Some rough numbers for you to consider: values have doubled almost exactly every 10 years in Vancouver since 1980, so if you rent out a room for $900/m on $500k property, you'd get about $100k income plus another $500k appreciation in 10 years. And in about 5 years, there should be about 200k of equity to use for investing elsewhere. No guarantees, of course, but even 75% of that would be quite good. It would be very optimistic to expect even half of that in either AB or NS. That's why I'm going to find ways to stay around Vancouver.

I disagree with managing long distant property is 'just a mind set'. I think it's about a good team that you can trust. Those are not exactly easy to come by, even locally. I think if you are just getting started or this is just a side hustle, long distance management would be hard. I would be patient and look for local opportunities to get started. It might take a while to get started but it will build over time.
If you are just counting on appreciation I would just say since the 80s the interest rate in Canada has steadily dropped. Inflation over time has also helped increase the house price. We seem to be in a rising interest rate environment for the near term so that could impact the speed of house value appreciation.
3 Reply
Anthony Therrien-Bernard
Realtor · Calgary, Alberta · Member since 2018 · 291 posts · 132 votes
4y
Quote from @Stevo Sun:

Quote from @Khai Hong:

Quote from @Sam Su:

Quote from @Khai Hong:

Hi @Sam Su, you'd be better off looking just a little outside of Calgary, like Airdrie or Lethbridge, better bang for your buck. I listen to several Canadian REI podcasts, and it sounds like a lot of experienced investors have been flocking to Calgary as of late. And given the recent rate rises, with more to come, it's going to be tough to compete directly with them. If you're thinking of investing remotely anyway, then also consider the Atlantic provinces, and dig deeper into which places have the most potential business & population growth. Wherever you end up choosing, it'd be best to add some healthy repair & vacancy contingencies into your underwriting. Here's a good discussion about landlord friendly provinces

Whats the best province to Invest in real estate in canada (biggerpockets.com)

Btw, did you get any good leads from Anthony? I'm surprised he doesn't outright post all the properties that he thinks are investor-friendly. As a realtor, that should be a great way to make oneself stand out and attract clients.
Be conservative with your expectations, don't be dazzled by numbers like $1500/m - that's probably from a property that was purchased 10 years ago. Even with $300/m, a hot water tank replacement or furnace repair could wipe out a few years of income. So decide clearly if you need the rental income, or if you're building equity by having other people pay down a mortgage for you.

Hi khai, thanks very much for your input. Yes, Anthony did send me something and has been helpful.

Also, I am actually thinking about Nova Scotia as well. But I have look into it yet. It is kind of too far from Vancouver.

Btw, as you said, you are looking in Vancouver as well. What's your target if I may ask? Flipping or rental income? To me, it just can't make the numbers to be working for rental. I know long term appreciation Vancouver is always good for sure.

HI Sam, distance is just a mindset :) It's all just a phone call away. Or if (once) you have a good system and team in place, then not even many phone calls. You could probably get 2 properties in NS for the price of one in AB, spread out your risk a little, but more time up front to set up. Another thing to consider is the likely appreciation. To my mind, the performance in NS is a nice steady climb, whereas AB is more dependent on the economy, so pick your preference. Here's a price chart (ignore 2020-21)

CREA | Try the MLS® HPI Tool

I'm currently looking in Vancouver (and Burnaby) because I want to move my family out of our condo in New West. I'm looking either to trade up to a house for $1.6M or less, or buy another condo ($600k or less) and rent out my current one. House hacking is part of the plan in both cases. The house would have to be fairly turn key with rooms for renting out, or another condo would also have to be live-in ready with the potential to add value through floor plan hacking. So, yeah, I have pretty specific requirements.

You're right about rentals not making sense anymore in Vancouver, you can only get about half of the monthly mortgage cost, unless the property was purchased more than 5 years ago. And even short term rentals don't work if you follow the 30 day limit. I don't know how strictly the city enforces that limit, but it's pretty easy to see how many nights were booked on the airbnb app. The only rental strategy that still kind of works is house hacking. Some rough numbers for you to consider: values have doubled almost exactly every 10 years in Vancouver since 1980, so if you rent out a room for $900/m on $500k property, you'd get about $100k income plus another $500k appreciation in 10 years. And in about 5 years, there should be about 200k of equity to use for investing elsewhere. No guarantees, of course, but even 75% of that would be quite good. It would be very optimistic to expect even half of that in either AB or NS. That's why I'm going to find ways to stay around Vancouver.

I disagree with managing long distant property is 'just a mind set'. I think it's about a good team that you can trust. Those are not exactly easy to come by, even locally. I think if you are just getting started or this is just a side hustle, long distance management would be hard. I would be patient and look for local opportunities to get started. It might take a while to get started but it will build over time.
If you are just counting on appreciation I would just say since the 80s the interest rate in Canada has steadily dropped. Inflation over time has also helped increase the house price. We seem to be in a rising interest rate environment for the near term so that could impact the speed of house value appreciation.
I completely agree with you Stevo
0 Reply
Sam Su
OP
Investor · Vancouver, BC · Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes
4y
Quote from @Khai Hong:

Quote from @Sam Su:

Quote from @Khai Hong:

Hi @Sam Su, you'd be better off looking just a little outside of Calgary, like Airdrie or Lethbridge, better bang for your buck. I listen to several Canadian REI podcasts, and it sounds like a lot of experienced investors have been flocking to Calgary as of late. And given the recent rate rises, with more to come, it's going to be tough to compete directly with them. If you're thinking of investing remotely anyway, then also consider the Atlantic provinces, and dig deeper into which places have the most potential business & population growth. Wherever you end up choosing, it'd be best to add some healthy repair & vacancy contingencies into your underwriting. Here's a good discussion about landlord friendly provinces

Whats the best province to Invest in real estate in canada (biggerpockets.com)

Btw, did you get any good leads from Anthony? I'm surprised he doesn't outright post all the properties that he thinks are investor-friendly. As a realtor, that should be a great way to make oneself stand out and attract clients.
Be conservative with your expectations, don't be dazzled by numbers like $1500/m - that's probably from a property that was purchased 10 years ago. Even with $300/m, a hot water tank replacement or furnace repair could wipe out a few years of income. So decide clearly if you need the rental income, or if you're building equity by having other people pay down a mortgage for you.

Hi khai, thanks very much for your input. Yes, Anthony did send me something and has been helpful.

Also, I am actually thinking about Nova Scotia as well. But I have look into it yet. It is kind of too far from Vancouver.

Btw, as you said, you are looking in Vancouver as well. What's your target if I may ask? Flipping or rental income? To me, it just can't make the numbers to be working for rental. I know long term appreciation Vancouver is always good for sure.

HI Sam, distance is just a mindset :) It's all just a phone call away. Or if (once) you have a good system and team in place, then not even many phone calls. You could probably get 2 properties in NS for the price of one in AB, spread out your risk a little, but more time up front to set up. Another thing to consider is the likely appreciation. To my mind, the performance in NS is a nice steady climb, whereas AB is more dependent on the economy, so pick your preference. Here's a price chart (ignore 2020-21)

CREA | Try the MLS® HPI Tool

I'm currently looking in Vancouver (and Burnaby) because I want to move my family out of our condo in New West. I'm looking either to trade up to a house for $1.6M or less, or buy another condo ($600k or less) and rent out my current one. House hacking is part of the plan in both cases. The house would have to be fairly turn key with rooms for renting out, or another condo would also have to be live-in ready with the potential to add value through floor plan hacking. So, yeah, I have pretty specific requirements.

You're right about rentals not making sense anymore in Vancouver, you can only get about half of the monthly mortgage cost, unless the property was purchased more than 5 years ago. And even short term rentals don't work if you follow the 30 day limit. I don't know how strictly the city enforces that limit, but it's pretty easy to see how many nights were booked on the airbnb app. The only rental strategy that still kind of works is house hacking. Some rough numbers for you to consider: values have doubled almost exactly every 10 years in Vancouver since 1980, so if you rent out a room for $900/m of a 2br $600k property, you'd get about $100k income plus another $600k appreciation in 10 years. And in about 5 years, there should be about 200k of equity to use for investing elsewhere. No guarantees, of course, but even 75% of that would be quite good. It would be very optimistic to expect even half of that in either AB or NS. That's why I'm going to find ways to stay around Vancouver.

Hi Khai, I agree that the appreciation in Vancouver is always good, but I am not too sure about the future speed though. Actually, even in the last 3 years, the appreciation in Vancouver is not much if comparing to small cities in BC or in ON. It just too expensive to double or triple, especially with the high interest rate in the coming years. As for remote investment, I would be very conservative. I say this because I have experience already. Some cost will always come out from nowhere.
0 Reply
Sam Su
OP
Investor · Vancouver, BC · Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 4 votes
4y
Quote from @Stevo Sun:

Quote from @Khai Hong:

Quote from @Sam Su:

Quote from @Khai Hong:

Hi @Sam Su, you'd be better off looking just a little outside of Calgary, like Airdrie or Lethbridge, better bang for your buck. I listen to several Canadian REI podcasts, and it sounds like a lot of experienced investors have been flocking to Calgary as of late. And given the recent rate rises, with more to come, it's going to be tough to compete directly with them. If you're thinking of investing remotely anyway, then also consider the Atlantic provinces, and dig deeper into which places have the most potential business & population growth. Wherever you end up choosing, it'd be best to add some healthy repair & vacancy contingencies into your underwriting. Here's a good discussion about landlord friendly provinces

Whats the best province to Invest in real estate in canada (biggerpockets.com)

Btw, did you get any good leads from Anthony? I'm surprised he doesn't outright post all the properties that he thinks are investor-friendly. As a realtor, that should be a great way to make oneself stand out and attract clients.
Be conservative with your expectations, don't be dazzled by numbers like $1500/m - that's probably from a property that was purchased 10 years ago. Even with $300/m, a hot water tank replacement or furnace repair could wipe out a few years of income. So decide clearly if you need the rental income, or if you're building equity by having other people pay down a mortgage for you.

Hi khai, thanks very much for your input. Yes, Anthony did send me something and has been helpful.

Also, I am actually thinking about Nova Scotia as well. But I have look into it yet. It is kind of too far from Vancouver.

Btw, as you said, you are looking in Vancouver as well. What's your target if I may ask? Flipping or rental income? To me, it just can't make the numbers to be working for rental. I know long term appreciation Vancouver is always good for sure.

HI Sam, distance is just a mindset :) It's all just a phone call away. Or if (once) you have a good system and team in place, then not even many phone calls. You could probably get 2 properties in NS for the price of one in AB, spread out your risk a little, but more time up front to set up. Another thing to consider is the likely appreciation. To my mind, the performance in NS is a nice steady climb, whereas AB is more dependent on the economy, so pick your preference. Here's a price chart (ignore 2020-21)

CREA | Try the MLS® HPI Tool

I'm currently looking in Vancouver (and Burnaby) because I want to move my family out of our condo in New West. I'm looking either to trade up to a house for $1.6M or less, or buy another condo ($600k or less) and rent out my current one. House hacking is part of the plan in both cases. The house would have to be fairly turn key with rooms for renting out, or another condo would also have to be live-in ready with the potential to add value through floor plan hacking. So, yeah, I have pretty specific requirements.

You're right about rentals not making sense anymore in Vancouver, you can only get about half of the monthly mortgage cost, unless the property was purchased more than 5 years ago. And even short term rentals don't work if you follow the 30 day limit. I don't know how strictly the city enforces that limit, but it's pretty easy to see how many nights were booked on the airbnb app. The only rental strategy that still kind of works is house hacking. Some rough numbers for you to consider: values have doubled almost exactly every 10 years in Vancouver since 1980, so if you rent out a room for $900/m on $500k property, you'd get about $100k income plus another $500k appreciation in 10 years. And in about 5 years, there should be about 200k of equity to use for investing elsewhere. No guarantees, of course, but even 75% of that would be quite good. It would be very optimistic to expect even half of that in either AB or NS. That's why I'm going to find ways to stay around Vancouver.

I disagree with managing long distant property is 'just a mind set'. I think it's about a good team that you can trust. Those are not exactly easy to come by, even locally. I think if you are just getting started or this is just a side hustle, long distance management would be hard. I would be patient and look for local opportunities to get started. It might take a while to get started but it will build over time.
If you are just counting on appreciation I would just say since the 80s the interest rate in Canada has steadily dropped. Inflation over time has also helped increase the house price. We seem to be in a rising interest rate environment for the near term so that could impact the speed of house value appreciation.

I agree. Let's see how the interest rate will do to the market.
0 Reply
Khai Hong
Member since 2021 · 20 posts · 18 votes
4y
The effect of higher interest rates is pretty clear: sales down 47% in ON, down 43% in BC. Plus more rate hikes to come. Some people who will feel like buying now in order to lock in rates before they go higher, but I think most people like you and me are going to wait-and-see, thereby pushing sales and prices down even further.

However, interest rates are a reaction to inflation, and the current causes of inflation, one-time stimulus and supply shocks, are short term (another 1 or 2 years at the most). In fact, I'll put forth in a separate thread that the world is actually facing deflation in the long term.

Instead of focusing on interest rates, I would urge you to consider other factors when choosing a market to invest in: vacancy rates, population growth, and unemployment rates. Vacancy (CMHC): Calgary 4.9%, Vancouver 1.2%, Toronto 4.5%, Montreal 3.0%

Population growth 1961-2021 (StatsCan)

-

Unemployment percent 2001-2019 (StatsCan)

-

Conclusions:
* AB is the only one where unemployment is trending higher (oil based economy)
* QC has the most significant reduction in unemployment, a combination of high job creation and relatively slower population growth
* despite having the most population growth, ON still manages to produce a lot of jobs for people going there

REI is a long term endeavor, so it's worth the upfront time in doing some analysis to increase your chances of success in the future. All the podcasts I follow say that it's better to do something instead of nothing, but all the speakers are people who have succeeded in REI. They never invite the multitudes of people who have failed at it to talk about how they failed and never tried again, just like no one joins BP to brag about how they tried but failed, and then gave up forever :)
2 Reply
Jason Yong
Member since 2022 · 16 posts · 3 votes
3y
@Anthony Therrien-Bernard @Anthony Therrien-Bernard @Anthony Therrien-Bernard
@Anthony Therrien-Bernard
1 Reply
Stevo Sun
Calgary, AB · Member since 2021 · 327 posts · 176 votes
3y
Quote from @Jason Yong:

@Anthony Therrien-Bernard @Anthony Therrien-Bernard @Anthony Therrien-Bernard
@Anthony Therrien-Bernard
I don't think there's a lot of those in long term rentals. For cashflow you are usually looking at B or C neighborhoods. You want something that's main floor and legally suited, so you can get two income streams. I would caution against illegal suites. I've seen a lot come on the market lately and I'm not sure why. I have heard anecdotally that renters are complaining to the city and city is cracking down. So you might get slapped with a warning to upgrade or eventually a fine. But I honestly do not know if that's the case in Calgary.

That said I did buy a property (half duplex, legally suited) in 2022 March that's generating about $400 or so cash flow. That was purchased for 350k, in like a B/C neighborhood. I think I lucked out a bit and haven't seen anything like that since. Also the rate I got was 2.99%. At the current rate of 5.45% for 5yr fixed it would not work as well.
1 Reply
Anthony Therrien-Bernard
Realtor · Calgary, Alberta · Member since 2018 · 291 posts · 132 votes
3y
Quote from @Jason Yong:

@Anthony Therrien-Bernard @Anthony Therrien-Bernard @Anthony Therrien-Bernard
@Anthony Therrien-Bernard

semi-detached and detached properties with basements suites (some illegal suites can be legalized) and Stevo mentioned in B and C neighborhoods can get positive cashflow in Calgary
0 Reply
Jason Yong
Member since 2022 · 16 posts · 3 votes
3y
Thanks for that @Stevo Sun, sounds like with the interest rates, Calgary will be very hard to cashflow then? Time for me to move on to Edmonton, Halifix or the US?

@Anthony Therrien-Bernard
What would a semi-detached with a legal basement suite in a B neighbourhood go for?
Does it make sense to look into ones that I can convert into a legal suite to try to get a deal?
0 Reply

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