NEW CONSTRUCTION SINGLE FAMILY BREWERYTOWN PHILADELPHIA

NEW CONSTRUCTION SINGLE FAMILY BREWERYTOWN PHILADELPHIA

Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes

Let's not be coy, we overpaid for this lot, but we knew it going in this time...which is a refreshing change for us. We bought this lot as a marginal deal thinking that if all went well we'd be lucky to make $30k and, if it went poorly, we'd break even. If it goes really poorly we'll be paying for our education.  We have a couple other reasons we intentionally overpaid for a vacant lot: 

- We own a 3100 sq ft (increasing to 3600 sq ft) building across the street that we're keeping as a higher end 3-unit rental (rehab kicks off in a month or so, budget of around $250k-$300k) 

- We wanted to learn the new construction process on a smaller project before we kick off a couple 6-unit new construction rental buildings we have lined up. We've been busy assembling land :) 

The kicker is we may have been overly cautious on our comps and could potentially do pretty well on the sale. We paid $85k for the lot and will spend ~$215k on construction. We're expecting to sell around $385k or so as some new construction on a nearby block, in a slightly less desirable location, sold in the $370k range. We're seeing comps creep up in the area and are getting feedback from a couple local developers that we should easily break $400k and possibly get near $450k. I have my doubts but we'll see what happens. As I said, we didn't go into this one looking to make much, it was to improve the area and learn the new construction process for ourselves. If we make some money while we're at it, great! It's also a case of a rising tide lifting all boats; the market has only gotten better in our little pocket of Philly and we may see a decent profit because of that and not our amazing financial/real estate prowess, believe me! 

This house will be 1650 sq ft above ground, 2200 including finished basement, and have 4 beds, 3 baths and a roof deck. Below are renderings my awesome partner @David Ross did. Tagging my other amazing partner @Jeremy T. because he never gets any love on the forums but he's truly the backbone of our little tribe. 

There's all the fun stuff, pictures and numbers, follow along to see how we do! 

Facade rendering: 

Basement rendering:

First floor:

2nd floor:

3rd floor:

Roof deck:

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Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 65 posts · 60 votes
10y

Thanks for posting @Troy Sheets !

If anyone has questions feel free to ask. We'll share thoughts and insights on materials, decisions, and processes throughout the project.

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  • James MasottiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Washington Township, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 976 votes
    10y

    @Troy Sheets Definitely looking forward to following yet another awesome project from you and @David Ross. Definitely interested in learning more about your process on this. I have a property I'm considering bidding now that would be a tear down...but the new construction idea seems a bit daunting and I have no idea how to scope out the price and project. Would definitely appreciate if you could go more into detail on how you came up with all your numbers and the process for getting started and permits and such.

    Thanks!

  • Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
    10y

    Fiberglass roof deck is underway and the roof is dried in. Still needs another coat and color coat but they wait till near the end of construction for final coats so it doesn't get damaged during construction. 

    View down 3000 block of Stiles St., which is one of the best streets in Brewerytown in my humble opinion. You can see two houses on the right that are rehabs with 3rd stories and roof decks added on. On the left is our triplex conversion (orange zoning notice on front door) and behind that is the latest house on the block to get the 3rd story addition/roof deck treatment. 

    View of Center City from roof deck. I zoomed in to take this picture but it actually looks closer than this in person, weird how the camera does that. 

    That's our update for now. Framing is done and we're waiting on windows to arrive and get installed then we can start roughing in mechanicals! 

  • Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @James Masotti:

    @Troy Sheets Definitely looking forward to following yet another awesome project from you and @David Ross. Definitely interested in learning more about your process on this. I have a property I'm considering bidding now that would be a tear down...but the new construction idea seems a bit daunting and I have no idea how to scope out the price and project. Would definitely appreciate if you could go more into detail on how you came up with all your numbers and the process for getting started and permits and such.

    Thanks!

    James,

    Let me know what questions you have and I can try and help. We're not so advanced that we have a bunch of systems in place; we ask lots of questions of fellow investors in the area, get quotes, rely on the little experience we do have and finally, pull the trigger. There's only so much you can learn from others and, at some point, at least for me, I have to learn by doing. That may mean I fall on my face a few times but I'm not likely to repeat those lessons! 

    As I said, I rely on fellow investors in my area. Your build costs in NJ may be 20% +/- what I'm seeing. You can't rely on my numbers, you need to find someone investing in the area and see what they're paying. Then get a quote from a GC and see what their numbers look like. If they're wildly different you've got more homework to do. If they're independent of each other (not referred by each other and not working together) and pretty similar, you've got a baseline to go off of. 

  • James MasottiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Washington Township, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 976 votes
    10y

    My questions are less about costs...as I understand that is going to vary widely by location and level of component quality....my main question is where do I start? Again...although I haven't done my first flip yet...I have educated myself as well as I can to be comfortable assessing those situations (like you I'm sure I'll still screw something up, but that's the nature of the business)

    However when it comes to tear down...and then new construction...I don't even know where to start...

    I imagine I need to find out about zoning and permitting from the municipality...if the location has septic, but I want to hook the new building up to water can I do that? If there is an existing foundation can I use that or do I have to excavate it and pour an entirely new foundation.

    Like you I know enough to be dangerous to ask these questions...but I don't know which contractors or investors to ask these questions of. 

    Any guidance on where to at least get started with that part would most definitely be appreciated. 

  • Residential Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2012 · 41 posts · 12 votes
    10y

    Are there any other blocks in Brewerytown you have your eye on @Troy Sheets, as far as your next project?  

  • Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @James Masotti:

    My questions are less about costs...as I understand that is going to vary widely by location and level of component quality....my main question is where do I start? Again...although I haven't done my first flip yet...I have educated myself as well as I can to be comfortable assessing those situations (like you I'm sure I'll still screw something up, but that's the nature of the business)

    However when it comes to tear down...and then new construction...I don't even know where to start...

    I imagine I need to find out about zoning and permitting from the municipality...if the location has septic, but I want to hook the new building up to water can I do that? If there is an existing foundation can I use that or do I have to excavate it and pour an entirely new foundation.

    Like you I know enough to be dangerous to ask these questions...but I don't know which contractors or investors to ask these questions of. 

    Any guidance on where to at least get started with that part would most definitely be appreciated. 

    If I were you, I'd find someone in your market doing exactly what you propose and learn from them. I'd bet there is an investor here on BP, local to you, that is doing what you want to do. Maybe not your exact township but one comparable to yours that can help you navigate permit, foundation and utility questions. I'd also stop by the township municipal building and befriend the permit/code people and ask lots of questions. Show up midday on a Tuesday-Thursday and introduce yourself, let them know what you'd like to do, then ask for help. Next time you stop back bring donuts or a fruit tray (if they're receptive and helpful). If you plead ignorance and let them know you're absolutely clueless most people will take pity on you and walk you through it. Maybe they know someone that is doing what you propose and could connect you?

    Have you driven around to active job sites and introduced yourself and asked for the GC? Possibly partner with a good GC that has done a few new home builds. Failing that, find a GC/builder doing good work and let them run with the project. Shadow them as much as possible and ask lots of questions. The only way we have a clue regarding new construction is learning from others that have done it. This includes investors, realtors, our architect, the GC, etc. We completely rely on others experience to get things done. That said, we also vet them and have enough smarts to double check what they're telling us, the numbers they're throwing out, etc. 

    You need experience and if you don't have it, you need to borrow it. 

  • Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Darrell Lee:

    Are there any other blocks in Brewerytown you have your eye on @Troy Sheets, as far as your next project?  

    We're looking at all the blocks! We just pay varying amounts based on comps, sq footage, zoning, repairs, likelihood the block will appreciate, etc. We've paid $180k for a shell and $30k for an entire (relatively) habitable house. We're also looking at the Sharswood neighborhood as a longer term bet. If the PHA pulls off what it's working on the Ridge corridor will be huge. We've bought a couple MFH shells in that neighborhood and are looking for more shells or lots! 

  • Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 49 posts · 11 votes
    10y

    Whats sharswood zipcode? @troy

  • Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 65 posts · 60 votes
    10y

    @K.D Neider it's a neighborhood within 19121

  • Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
    10y

    A neighbor took this and posted to Instagram so I stole it, great twilight shot! Not much progress since last update, windows and doors are in and we're starting rough ins this week. We lost a week or two while we tried to make commercial windows work with our budget, which delayed the order, which delayed progress. We were trying to get larger commercial style windows in but the budget couldn't handle it as the upcharge was around $7k. 

  • Toms River, NJ · Member since 2013 · 1 post · 0 votes
    10y

    Great to see that you are working the Brewerytown area. The Company I work for invests in Philadelphia via loans, rentals, new construction-(multiple JV deals- debt and equity) I am personally looking to invest in new construction projects vs rehabs at this point. I would love to make contact to discuss how we might be able to help each other out.

  • Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
    10y

    Hi all, sorry it has been so long since I've updated this post, we've been super busy and this particular project hit a snag that has held us up by several weeks. Our plumber found out the city sewer out front of our property is 35' deep in the street. Normally it's 6' or 8' and they can dig the hole, tie in and backfill same day. Digging down 35' would be unbelievably expensive so he's been searching for an alternative. The alternative is going out the back of the house and out to the side street. Finding this alternative, getting approval and fitting it in the plumbers already packed schedule has cost us several weeks. We should be back in business this week and we have rough inspection scheduled for today. 

    Here's a look at some of the mechanical systems roughed in. The pipes are below the joists here as there is a soffit going in due to ductwork running along the ceiling here. If the soffit weren't going in the plumbers would've had to run the pipes through the joists. 

    Brick facade complete.

    Brick steps with limestone treads.

    Metal panels being installed on bay.

    So that's where we're at with this project, not much to see on the inside at this point, hopefully we'll get insulation in later this week and then we'll be ready for drywall and it'll start to look like a house inside. 

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    10y

    Ah, I was wondering about why you did that front bay, but now I see that the facades on either side of your house are at different distances from the curb - so that type of bay simplifies dealing with that difference in distance. 

    What type of house wrap did they use beneath the brick facing?

    How did the house that was there previously tie in to the sewer line in the street? That is the sort of thing that you might have tried to preserve to allow for simpler tie in. 

  • James MasottiPro Member
    Rental Property Investor · Washington Township, NJ · Member since 2015 · 1k+ posts · 976 votes
    10y

    @Troy Sheets - Looks like you guys have been up to a lot based on the project page on your website. Would be great to get an update!

  • Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 65 posts · 60 votes
    9y

    So just following up on this thread. Sold at the end of Sept for $425k. Listed before finishing touches were complete and had under contract in ~10 days.

  • Herndon, VA · Member since 2016 · 14 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    I'll bite,

    What was your net profit?

  • Real Estate Professional · New York City, NY · Member since 2016 · 14 posts · 2 votes
    9y

    It's a good build.

  • Investor · Great Neck, NY · Member since 2016 · 5 posts · 1 vote
    9y

    @David Ross Good build! I want to do a similar project. Do you have architect and GC to recommend? thanks.  

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