Worth replacing all windows in my rental or leave them alone?

General Landlording & Rental Properties
3yFollow

Worth replacing all windows in my rental or leave them alone?

Ryan Duphorn
Rental Property Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 23 posts · 17 votes

Hello all - could really use some input on what you best recommend for this semi complicated decision that has been consuming my thoughts for 2 weeks now. My rental was built in 1987 and has the original aluminum windows. There is no damaged glass on any windows but only about 60% of them operate properly (some don't open, some partly open, some very difficult to open). Energy efficiency is zero to none but not as much of a concern to me as tenants pay utilities.

I got a quote from Lowes on a full house vinyl window replacement (12 windows total) plus a sliding door that needs replacement due to broken glass on one pane. However, the focus here is on windows but note that the quote includes the sliding door. The quote is $9450 if paid cash, and $11,820 if financed at 7% over 5 years.

1st question is do I bother to replace the windows on this rental?

2nd question is if I do replace the windows, should I use my current HELOC of $70k to pay the 'cash' price of $9540 (note my current market interest rate on my HELOC is 8.25%), or just finance the $11,820 through Lowes and not tap into my HELOC. I have plans to use my HELOC balance towards future rental property purchases (down payments & rehab costs). The monthly payment through Lowes financing would be roughly $190 / mo for 5 years.

Note that I don't plan on selling this rental anytime soon because my mortgage payment is $960 / mo (bought it at 3.25% interest rate) and it rents for $2000 (4bd, 2bth, 1900 sqft). I bought it way under market hence my $70k HELOC when only owning it for a year and a half now.

Pros of replacing windows (pretty obvious) - no complaints from tenants on window operation (although this hasn't really been an issue so far w/ my current tenants), bonus in ARV when/if decide to sell, and energy efficiency.

Cons - roughly $10k expense, if I use my HELOC then $10k of the balance goes towards a non cash flowing investment (I don't interpret new windows as generating cash flow), if I finance then I add to my DTI which could hurt me when attaining future loans on future rentals.

I tried to keep this as concise as possible while laying out the full scenario. Any advice is greatly appreciated.

0Reply
120 views

Most Popular Reply

Bill B.
Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
3y

I don’t know if there’s a worse investment than replacing functional windows, except maybe a pool. If you spent $10k on new windows and sold for an extra $2k I’d say you did better than expected. You might save your renters $100/yr on utilities, maybe. 

The only reason I would consider replacing any of the windows is if you were vacant and people walking through kept telling you they didn’t apply because of the windows, but has that ever happened?

4Reply
See this reply in the discussion

18 Replies

Jump to latestLatest
  • Bill B.
    Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    3y

    I don’t know if there’s a worse investment than replacing functional windows, except maybe a pool. If you spent $10k on new windows and sold for an extra $2k I’d say you did better than expected. You might save your renters $100/yr on utilities, maybe. 

    The only reason I would consider replacing any of the windows is if you were vacant and people walking through kept telling you they didn’t apply because of the windows, but has that ever happened?

    4Reply
  • Richard F.
    Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y
    Aloha,

    Based on age alone, and depending on environmental exposures, you should examine windows and walls, interior and exterior for any signs of water intrusion. A years long, repeat leak from wind driven rain, extreme UV exposure, failing weatherproofing materials, or blocked drainage weepholes can cause extensive damage and attract termites/carpenter ants that will perform additional demolition. Any odd dark stains under windows, even at floor level, could be a sign; as could deteriorating sheetrock around or under the windows. Water is your #1 Enemy as a LL. Keep a sharp eye out for it's signs.
    2Reply
  • Zachary Hryczyk
    Investor · Lincoln City, OR · Member since 2022 · 11 posts · 12 votes
    3y

    Windows are a great investment and  not only add equity but energy efficiency to your property long term. You'll get the 10k back eventually and piece of mind that your windows function andvare weather tight. 🙂

    1Reply
  • Alecia LovelessPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    @Ryan Duphorn I’d replace them. I did my kitchen in my 1890 year house and what a difference. If they are not functional could potentially be a hazard in the event of a fire and that is one of my biggest concerns and reasons for doing a lot of things in my units.

    My only complaint about the Lowe’s installers was that they didn’t insulate any of the gaps and holes that were numerous in my very old house’s windows. This probably doesn’t apply as much to a house built in 1987 but you might want to have it added into your quote just in case. Yellow spray foam cans would have done the trick for me. The new windows improved my heating by about 60% but would have been 80% had the insulation been added.

    0Reply
  • Theresa HarrisPro Member
    Member since 2019 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes
    3y

    Which windows have problems opening?  I'd be worried in the case of a fire, if the tenants can get out of bedrooms and such.

    You could always replace those on the front (or back) half now and the others a year from now.  If it is renting for $2K and you're cash flowing as much as you said you are, put all of that money towards paying for the windows.

    0Reply
  • Henry T.
    Member since 2022 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    3y

    I just bought a set of Pella windows from Lowes and am pretty happy with them, so far.  Jeld Wen from Home depot is pure junk, in  case you were gonna ask. I would not hire lowes as your installer. I would find someone who's work you've seen and like, do the installation.  Big box stores have a reputation for crappy work. If it's a rental, just replace the ones that need it. Or maybe find a good handyman to restore what you have to working condition. It'll break your heart when your tenants beat the crap out of your new windows.

    0Reply
  • Matthew Paul
    Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes
    3y

    Find a distributor called Landsing .  They are up and down the east coast . Go there and look at windows , and then ask them for different contractors ,

    Real contractors dont use Lowes or Home Depot for windows

    3Reply
  • Andrew B.
    Rockaway, NJ · Member since 2016 · 2k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    3y

    Absolutely replace them. Imagine you are a tenant and you try to open a stuck window. It doesnt move, so you force it open. Its not your property so you dont care to do it carefully. When the tenant forces the window over and over, eventually it will break. Now you are forced to rush a maintenance item and protect your investment. Hopefully it doesn't happen when its raining, cause now there is water damage. 

    Do yourself a favor, take charge of the maintenance and do it on your schedule. Dont wait for it to break. 

    1Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    @Ryan Duphorn you got one quote from lowes. Get other quotes from local company or wholesale window place and install. Non functional windows you have to fix or replace. There is no rule you have to replace them all at once. That said it's hard to get someone to do 5 windows. Believe me I have tried.

    0Reply
  • Ryan Duphorn
    OP
    Rental Property Investor · Richmond, VA · Member since 2018 · 23 posts · 17 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Bill B.:

    I don’t know if there’s a worse investment than replacing functional windows, except maybe a pool. If you spent $10k on new windows and sold for an extra $2k I’d say you did better than expected. You might save your renters $100/yr on utilities, maybe. 

    The only reason I would consider replacing any of the windows is if you were vacant and people walking through kept telling you they didn’t apply because of the windows, but has that ever happened?


     Roughly 40% of them aren't functional. Either don't open because the pull tabs/springs are broke or extremely difficult to open

    0Reply
  • Chad HalePro Member
    Property Manager / Investor · San Jose, CA · Member since 2013 · 779 posts · 301 votes
    3y
    Have you looked at replacing the balancers?  Is that why the windows are hard to open?  Or is it something else, like bent frames?  Is the home settling?
    0Reply
  • Dawn P.
    Rental Property Investor · Sumter, SC · Member since 2015 · 334 posts · 531 votes
    3y

    I'd definitely get another quote or two, I had a contractor replace 12 windows for me and it was right at $5,000. I've never had good luck with Lowe's installation people.

    4Reply
  • Bill B.
    Investor · Las Vegas, NV · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    3y

    Do you get those “home mags” in the mail that are 100% homer related ads/coupons, or local home improvement shows? Is there a large windows service like Anderson/renewal in the area? I would assume if you aren’t getting “40-50% off”, you’re paying too much. 

    1Reply
  • Dave Skow
    Lender · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 2k+ posts · 899 votes
    3y

    @Ryan Duphorn- no need to  replace  windows  if they are  working and if nobody is complaining about them ...if you do decide to replace them - use the  financing the window firm offers at  7%  and feek your  heloc  freed up - good luck

    0Reply
  • Craig Janet
    Member since 2019 · 223 posts · 261 votes
    3y

    Thus is a classic example of landlords overspending. This home is an investment what is the ROI on this $10K expenditure. On top of that, your going to be paying interest on this. Will it at least give the home better curb appeal? Have you attempted to fix the windows that won't open?

    I can think of a lot better things to spend $10K on. Save the money for something more important like HVAC, countertops, paint etc. Something that tenants will notice. 

    0Reply
  • Todd Jones
    Member since 2023 · 243 posts · 199 votes
    3y
    Quote from @Colleen F.:

    @Ryan Duphorn you got one quote from lowes. Get other quotes from local company or wholesale window place and install. Non functional windows you have to fix or replace. There is no rule you have to replace them all at once. That said it's hard to get someone to do 5 windows. Believe me I have tried.


     This.

    Get quotes from other local places. That’s their life so they are well invested in doing it right in some cases.

    …and yes, replace them especially if you’re going to keep it for a while. They will pay for themselves when you sell it. Once it’s paid for completely, it’s done!

    1Reply
  • Colleen F.Pro Member
    Investor · Narragansett, RI · Member since 2013 · 8k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    3y

    @Ryan Duphorn also don't get a quote from renewal by anderson or any of those 50 year window places it will be expensive. We tried to get 5 condo windows replaced and some we were quoted 1,000 a window for like a 27 x 54 vinyl window ridiculous. It took forever to find a cheaper way to get it done.500/window for install. The sad thing is the PM company didn't even have a recommendation and the condo association pays heat so they should hook up with a supplier/installer. Like you half of our windows were non-functional and you could feel a breeze so it wasn't really a choice to not do them.     

    0Reply
  • Kevin Sobilo
    Realtor · Hanover Twp, PA · Member since 2018 · 3k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    3y

    @Ryan Duphorn, I have a couple thoughts.

    First in terms of whether this is an upgrade that makes sense I would first look at the typical rental in your market of a similar type and quality. What would they have for windows typically? Then look at what other pluses and minuses your rental has versus the typical.

    For example in my area a typical C class rental would have aluminum storm windows as you describe. So, if my goal was to be better than the average that MIGHT be one way I would choose to set myself apart, BUT I would also look at other lower cost easier to do upgrades like adding a laundry room and including a washer and dryer. A rental will not exceed the average in every way, so choose the most cost effective ways for yours to exceed the average.

    Second, that quote is SKY HIGH! I can buy basic replacement windows locally for about $200 each. So, with tax and installation I could have them done for $300-400 which is $3600-4800 plus you were replacing a door. Still the total is nowhere near what you were quoted.

    Get quotes from other places and look at the quality you're choosing. Maybe you are buying something nicer than makes sense for a rental.

    Also, when buying at Lowes or Home Depot get their credit card and work through their pro-desk on larger orders. They will give you volume pricing like a contractor and typically get 10-20% off retail on materials. 

    0Reply
Join the conversationCreate a free account to reply, vote on answers and follow this thread.
Log InJoin for Free