The tenant portion is where Section 8 landlords actually get hurt

The tenant portion is where Section 8 landlords actually get hurt

James JonesPro Member
Investor · Collierville, TN 38017 · Member since 2017 · 859 posts · 607 votes

Memphis operator, since 2003, few hundred doors, majority voucher. A couple of weeks ago I posted my tenancy and collections data arguing the tenant-quality stereotype about Section 8 is wrong. Some serious operators pushed back - including one running a few hundred S8 doors in Mississippi and a Detroit property manager with twenty years in the program - and the objection they raised was not tenant quality. It was the tenant portion. They were right that it's the real risk, and it deserves its own thread, because it's the thing that actually costs voucher landlords money.

How the money splits. On a voucher lease the housing authority pays a portion of the contract rent directly to you (the HAP), and the tenant pays the remainder out of pocket. The HAP portion is the part people describe as "guaranteed rent" - it lands by direct deposit, on schedule, regardless of whether the tenant lost a job. The tenant portion has none of that. It is an ordinary rent-collection problem with an ordinary tenant attached, and it's collected from a household with limited income by definition.

So the single number that predicts your experience isn't the neighborhood grade or the payment standard. It's this: what percentage of the contract rent is the tenant responsible for?

In my portfolio, when the tenant portion runs somewhere under $150 a month, collections are boring. People pay it. When the tenant portion climbs past three or four hundred dollars against an eleven-hundred-dollar rent, you are no longer holding a subsidized tenancy - you are holding a market tenant with a partial subsidy, and every problem that comes with market-rate collections comes back, except now the tenant also has a housing authority relationship you have to navigate to do anything about it. Almost every Section 8 horror story I've heard from a competent operator traces back to that second scenario.

Here's what most people miss: that number is set at placement, not discovered later. It's a function of the contract rent you agreed to versus the payment standard for that zip and bedroom count, and of the tenant's income. Push the contract rent well above the standard and the difference lands squarely on the tenant. That's the moment the deal gets made or broken, and it happens before anyone moves in.

What I do about it. First, I underwrite the zip and bedroom count against the payment standard before I buy, because a unit where the standard covers most of my rent is a fundamentally different asset than one where it covers two-thirds. Second, I screen the tenant portion as if it were the entire rent - documented income covering their share at the same multiple I'd require from a market applicant, references I actually call, prior tenancy length. The voucher does not remove the screening question; it relocates it to a smaller number. Third, when the tenant portion would be large, I treat the applicant as a market tenant in every respect, because that's what they functionally are.

And the honest caveat: enforcement varies by housing authority. Some authorities still terminate assistance over non-payment of the tenant portion or damages, which puts real weight behind your lease. Others have quietly stopped, and in those markets the incentive structure people describe is weaker than it used to be. Find out which kind of authority you're operating under before you build a strategy on it - that answer differs by city and it changes the math.

What I'd like from the group, and numbers beat opinions:

For those running voucher units - what's your typical tenant portion as a percentage of contract rent, and what's your collections rate on that piece specifically?

Has anyone found a screening approach for the tenant portion that meaningfully outperformed the standard income multiple?

And for anyone whose authority still enforces non-payment: does it actually change tenant behavior in practice, or is that mostly theoretical?

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Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
1mo
Quote from @Rachid Abadli:

  1. SHRA does still terminate assistance for repeated non-payment of tenant portion, but the process takes months and requires documented landlord complaints. So the enforcement is real but slow — you’re collecting on your own during that window.

  2. On the screening question: I apply the same income verification to the tenant portion that I would to full rent for a market applicant. If their portion is $200/mo, I want to see $600/mo in documented income covering that piece. The voucher handles the rest, but that $200 is a real rent obligation and I treat it like one.

Two major problems you are overlooking. 

"Termination" of assistance, is FAR, FAR, different from "return of possession". YOU get to file the eviction required to actually remove the Tenant, all while no portion of the rent is coming in due to the fact they are "off" of assistance. (I am not aware of ANY housing office that physically removes Tenants, but there could be some I suppose)

The other problem is the logic of your screening. Great, Tenant portion of rent is only $200. What is the cost of absolutely EVERYTHING else that they need, to carry on with life? Car payment and/or car repairs, insurance (auto, renters), groceries, utils, including cable and internet, what about clothing, kid's school supplies, and of course some Crown Royal. Do they get a discount on ANY of that? No. You must look at household non-subsidy income against total monthly out of pocket expenses. The ratio of that relationship should be the same for subsidized and non-subsidized applicants. 
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  • Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    1mo

    Screening can be highly individualized as we see by comments on these forums, but CAN be used to make a difference. I've discussed my methods elsewhere on the forum.

    Back when I had the large percentage of some 800 units under S8, we eventually determined it was worth the effort and expense to simple initiate evictions. BUT, we had a method to the madness! A lot of our units were in multi-fams, large and small, and neighbors always talk. We planned our filings for two specific time frames during the year. Anyone more than 30 days delinquent, even by $25, was served. We set up a table outside the Courtroom for the days we had multiple cases (the Attorney was great at getting a lot of them on each docket), and the Tenants could choose to pay in full at that point if they wanted the case dismissed. It was a Miracle! A significant number did just that. For the rest, we were heard and followed through with the necessary steps for possession and for money judgments.

    The KEY? Picking the "right" time of year to file. We scheduled cases to be heard during late March and early April. Given the amount of notice the Tenants had, they were usually able to get their Tax Refunds in time to pay their bills!

    Our second round of filings would occur to allow scheduling of cases in September, before the big Holiday Season, where everyone overspends! 

    These were the best possible times of year when Tenants that were trying, would have access to money that would have been spent frivolously otherwise. The best part...as I mentioned, neighbors talk, so if one family in your building went to Court, you can bet they all heard about it. Subsequent years (and obviously, along with improvements in screening), there were fewer and fewer eviction filings needed. 

    Over the past 20 years, across all property classes (mostly C and D, but about one quarter A and B), and averaging around 150 units under management, of Tenants I placed, there were 2, maybe 3 evictions, and another 3 or 4 that agreed to vacate early due to non payment. You absolutely can screen for the top 10% of applicants for any property tier. It can take longer for the more difficult property, but they are out there. 

  • Rachid AbadliBusiness Member
    Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2024 · 129 posts · 37 votes
    1mo

    This is the most useful Section 8 post I’ve seen on this forum in years, and it’s because you’re naming the actual risk instead of the perceived one.

    The tenant-portion-as-percentage framework is something I wish I’d understood earlier. I have a voucher tenancy in Sacramento where the HAP covers about 85% of contract rent — the tenant portion is under $200/mo. Collections on that unit have been perfect for years.

    A friend of mine in the same market has a voucher unit where the tenant portion is $450 against a $1,400 rent, and he’s had two partial-payment situations in 18 months.

    Same program, same city, completely different experience — and the variable is exactly what you described.

    Two things I’d add from the Sacramento Housing Authority specifically:

    1. SHRA does still terminate assistance for repeated non-payment of tenant portion, but the process takes months and requires documented landlord complaints. So the enforcement is real but slow — you’re collecting on your own during that window.

    2. On the screening question: I apply the same income verification to the tenant portion that I would to full rent for a market applicant. If their portion is $200/mo, I want to see $600/mo in documented income covering that piece. The voucher handles the rest, but that $200 is a real rent obligation and I treat it like one.

    Your point about this being set at placement is the key insight. By the time you’re chasing partial payments, the underwriting mistake already happened.

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    • Honolulu, HI · Member since 2008 · 3k+ posts · 2k+ votes
      1mo
      Quote from @Rachid Abadli:

      1. SHRA does still terminate assistance for repeated non-payment of tenant portion, but the process takes months and requires documented landlord complaints. So the enforcement is real but slow — you’re collecting on your own during that window.

      2. On the screening question: I apply the same income verification to the tenant portion that I would to full rent for a market applicant. If their portion is $200/mo, I want to see $600/mo in documented income covering that piece. The voucher handles the rest, but that $200 is a real rent obligation and I treat it like one.

      Two major problems you are overlooking. 

      "Termination" of assistance, is FAR, FAR, different from "return of possession". YOU get to file the eviction required to actually remove the Tenant, all while no portion of the rent is coming in due to the fact they are "off" of assistance. (I am not aware of ANY housing office that physically removes Tenants, but there could be some I suppose)

      The other problem is the logic of your screening. Great, Tenant portion of rent is only $200. What is the cost of absolutely EVERYTHING else that they need, to carry on with life? Car payment and/or car repairs, insurance (auto, renters), groceries, utils, including cable and internet, what about clothing, kid's school supplies, and of course some Crown Royal. Do they get a discount on ANY of that? No. You must look at household non-subsidy income against total monthly out of pocket expenses. The ratio of that relationship should be the same for subsidized and non-subsidized applicants. 
  • Real Estate Agent · Memphis · Member since 2026 · 595 posts · 349 votes
    1mo

    The tenant portion is the piece I’d pay the most attention to as well. A voucher can make the overall rent look secure, but if the tenant’s share is high relative to their actual income, you still have a collection risk that needs to be underwritten like any other tenancy. I also wouldn’t assume the housing authority will solve a nonpayment issue—the way that gets handled locally matters just as much as what the program says on paper.

  • Drew SygitBusiness Member
    Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 13k+ posts · 9k+ votes
    1mo

    @Richard F. and @Jim Johnson

    Technically, the housing commission caseworker is supposed to do a budget with the voucher holder, to determine how much of the rent they can pay.

    So, theoretically, a landlord shouldn't have to worry about qualifying the voucher holder for their portion of the rent + all else.

    Reality - how much would you trust the work of a caseworker that has ZERO skin in the game?

    Then there's also the hard-living damages voucher holders seem to cause as they barely work and spend way too much time at home.

  • James JonesPro Member
    OP
    Investor · Collierville, TN 38017 · Member since 2017 · 859 posts · 607 votes
    1mo

    Drew Sygit - the caseworker point is the sharpest thing anyone has said in this thread and I want to put more weight on it than you did.

    You're right that the affordability budget exists on paper and right that nobody doing it carries any consequence for getting it wrong. But there's a second thing wrong with it that makes it worse than useless to a landlord: it's computed at certification, against income at that moment, and it is not re-run when the tenant's hours get cut in month seven. The number that lands on your rent roll is a snapshot of a household's finances from a day that has already passed. So the landlord isn't relying on a bad underwrite, he's relying on a stale one. That's why I screen the tenant portion myself at the same income multiple I'd use on a market applicant instead of treating the caseworker's math as a credit decision. It was never meant to be one.

    On the damages, I'll split your point in half because I think one half is right and the other half is the thing my last thread was arguing about.

    The right half is occupancy hours, and it's a physical fact, not a character judgment. A unit occupied sixteen hours a day wears faster than one occupied nine. More cooking, more water, more traffic on the floors, HVAC running through the afternoon. Any landlord whose tenant base skews toward people who are home a lot - retirees, disabled tenants, families with small kids, remote workers in a Class A building - eats more maintenance per year than the guy renting to two commuters. That's real and I budget for it. It shows up in my turn cost and my service call volume, and it's a reason voucher units need a maintenance bench rather than a guy you call.

    The half I'd push back on is "barely work." A large share of the voucher households I've leased to over twenty-two years are working - often two part-time jobs with unstable hours, which is precisely the income profile that produces a voucher in the first place. Plenty of the rest are elderly or disabled and aren't supposed to be working. That's the program's design, not a defect in the tenant. And I'd say the same thing to anybody underwriting on it: if the mental model is "these people don't work," you'll screen for the wrong thing and miss the actual risk, which is the volatility of the hours, not the absence of them. The applicant who worked 34 hours a week for three years at the same employer is a different bet than the one averaging the same income across four gigs, and no voucher tells you which one is standing in front of you.

    Which loops back to your caseworker point. Nobody in the system is measuring income stability. They're measuring income. That gap is the landlord's to close, and it's the whole reason this thread exists.

    • Drew SygitBusiness Member
      Property Manager · Royal Oak, MI · Member since 2012 · 13k+ posts · 9k+ votes
      1mo

      That's why we want a YTD paystub AND last year's W-2(s)!

      We then average out monthly income for YTD, Hourly, YTD+W-2 and just W-2.

      Compare all 4 amounts and research deeper if off by more than 10%.

      Stable rent payments require stable income, which requires stable employment.

      Simple connection.

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