Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
For those of you that own vacation rentals, do you know of where a person can find the data on local markets related to VR? Such as rents, number of units in an area, vacancy rates, etc.?
I crunched the numbers for the rentals on AirBnB. There are 151 listings on the site for the Costal Orange County Market. In this market are the cities of Aliso Viejo, Costa Mesa, Dana Point, Irvine, Laguna Beach, Laguna Hills, Laguna Niguel, Laguna Woods, Lake Forest, Mission Viejo, Newport Beach, Orange County, Rancho Santa Margarita, San Clemente, San Juan Capistrano, Santa Ana, Tustin. In San Clemente, there are 57 listings.
Across the entire Costal Orange County Market, the average listing is for $185 a night, The forecasted average occupancy rate for the next week is 37%. Correspondingly, the vacancy rate is 63%.
Real Estate Broker · Houston, TX · Member since 2013 · 187 posts · 111 votes
12y
Hmm...that seems to be sold information. My first choice would be the MLS as you'd be able to get rents (active and sold), number of units...not so much vacancy rates unless the listing agent included it.
But...I will look around and see what I can find for you.
Flipper/Rehabber · York, UK · Member since 2013 · 895 posts · 453 votes
12y
So far I've had to rely on contacting owners, particularly ones with a few units. Airbnb now has local groups where property owners can connect and share information. For the most part people are happy to talk about their success.
Investor · Louisville, KY · Member since 2011 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes
12y
@Karen Margrave - are you looking for high level numbers to determine what city would be a good place to invest in VRBOs? Or are you interested in a particular area and wanting to know what the numbers look like there?
I was looking for #1 a few weeks back and looked at some lists of top VRBO cities. I created a spreadsheet that highlighted about 20 of them. Then I went on realtor.com and got an idea of what a typical home would sell for in that area (just ballpark...200K vs 500K), then I went out to VRBO.com to look at what similar properties in that area rent for per month on average and how well they appear to be booked up over the next 6-8 months.
From this I narrowed my search down quite a bit and am now doing further digging on a few that are on the short list.
I don't think there is an easy reference to what the best cashflowing cities are or the lowest vacancy or anything like that. I think you have to do some of that legwork on your own or maybe hire a VA to do it for you.
Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
@Ann Watkins We have a condo project we may be building in San Clemente. It's a great area for VR, as it's just a short walk to the beach. I wanted to gather numbers on VR market, so that should an investor be interested in that niche I'd have info. I know in the past I was thinking of doing a B&B on a property in northern California and found associations dedicated to those, and was able to get rents on rooms, amenities offered, etc., and thought maybe the VR market was similar. I will need to get digging, and quit being lazy I guess :) Most VR aren't on MLS as rentals, but if they are selling. That's not the info I want. I want room rates, vacancy rates, etc. Thanks for your replies!
Engineer · Oakland, CA · Member since 2014 · 121 posts · 76 votes
12y
For the most part, you can look at airBnB to determine number of units and rent. Finding out vacancy is more work, as airBnB doesn't provide historical data.
My favorite blog about airBnB is from a host in Philadelphia. In her post Year-end Analysis she shares her 2012 and 2013 numbers. For 2013, she had a occupancy rate of 70%.
@Eliza Blue Can you share what companies you can buy this info?
Investor · Bellingham, WA · Member since 2013 · 50 posts · 28 votes
12y
Karen,
Perhaps a customer service rep at one of the big sites like VRBO might be able to provide you with some of the info you’d like. If not, the research can be done, but it’s tedious.
Before I bought my vacation rental condos in Waikiki, I went to VRBO’s website and typed Waikiki into the search bar. The results showed that there were 780 vacation rentals in Waikiki. The results page also showed a list of all the condo buildings that had VRBO rentals.
Sigh. I clicked on each condo building to check out which units were popular, what their nightly rates were, and how full their calendar was. Maybe I'd hire a VA to do this for me now. : )
Also, in Hawaii at least, the Hawaii Tourism Authority keeps track of all sorts of visitor statistics like how many visitors came to the islands, which islands they stayed on, whether they stayed in hotels, condos, or with friends, whether their stay was for business, pleasure, blah blah blah. Maybe other states do that as well.
For me, Waikiki has been a terrific place to invest in vacation rentals. One of the reasons I chose Waikiki is because it’s a year-round destination and the visitors are very international. International visitors provide a spread out economic base. If the US economy is tanking and residents aren’t going on vacation, then I can still fill my units with guests from Korea, Japan, Australia, Canada, and Europe.
Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
Thanks to all of you, it looks like there's some good information out there, I just need to start digging
@Dana R. actually southern California is very much like Hawaii in the tourists that are attracted to the area In addition, there's a host of other things to do, plus business that people come her for, etc. and VR seem to get top dollar.
I crunched the numbers for the rentals on AirBnB. There are 151 listings on the site for the Costal Orange County Market. In this market are the cities of Aliso Viejo, Costa Mesa, Dana Point, Irvine, Laguna Beach, Laguna Hills, Laguna Niguel, Laguna Woods, Lake Forest, Mission Viejo, Newport Beach, Orange County, Rancho Santa Margarita, San Clemente, San Juan Capistrano, Santa Ana, Tustin. In San Clemente, there are 57 listings.
Across the entire Costal Orange County Market, the average listing is for $185 a night, The forecasted average occupancy rate for the next week is 37%. Correspondingly, the vacancy rate is 63%.
Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
@Evan R. Wow! Thanks. Many of those towns are inland. The spot we are looking at is in San Clemente, the other coastal areas are Dana Point, Laguna Beach, Newport Beach, and Huntington Beach (the 3 beach cities are the higher priced) though, San Clemente is up there too, as it has some of the best surfing, after Huntington.
Flipper/Rehabber · York, UK · Member since 2013 · 895 posts · 453 votes
12y
@Karen Margrave keep me posted on your project. San Clemente is one of my favorites spots in SoCal. A couple years ago I was on vacation and saw some great deals, wish I could've bought back then.
Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
12y
@Micki M. Will do! Actually I read an article a few weeks backing rating the VR markets, and San Clemente was at the top of the list. I might have that article ... someplace :) Though the market has started going up and the deals that were available are gone, the prices are still probably going to continue to go up, therefore; there may never be a better time to buy than now.
We figure on the units we want to build, they should go for around $550k or so and be around 1500+ sq. ft. (may have rooftop decks if we can get a view, we need to take the quad copter w/camera over to check that out this week) You can see preliminary plans on my website under current projects. Just a few blocks to the beach. If you look at the plans, the loft area can easily accommodate bunk sleeping arrangement for VR. (please give me your thoughts)
Rehabber · Niantic, CT · Member since 2012 · 443 posts · 150 votes
12y
Wow, @Evan R. - did you do that all manually? Great chart.
I've done the same thing as @Dana R. in that I've gone to HomeAway and simply clicked through all of the listings that are similar to ours, and then used my own raw and very simple data to determine good markets, rents and vacancy rates. It's great to hear that some companies or bloggers might be starting to track and make this info available.
One small thing to keep in mind is that availability calendars might be marked as "reserved" because the owners themselves are using the property for a week, a month, a season, etc. Still, across a large number of rentals, this will balance itself out and you'll still get a good idea of vacancy rate.
My company has software that generates these spreadsheets as part of the services we provide. For people doing Vacation Rentals, what sites do you look at to get this kind of data?
Thanks for the heads up availability. I took a quick look at the all the calendars for all the listings, I didn't see any differentiation between "booked" or "unavailable" You can take a look here: http://bit.ly/1dFsALi, and see all the calendars in costal orange county. My hunch is that if you're going to be unavailable for a season, then you deactivate the listing, but every one does their business differntly.
Residential Landlord · San Mateo, CA · Member since 2013 · 49 posts · 12 votes
12y
@Karin DiMauro en Margrave I just added my second vacation rental in Portland, OR and to the best of my knowledge @Dana R. and @Karin DiMauro method's are the only ways I know of right now and actually I think are the best.
Although tedious and you can never tell what is an actual booking from blocked nights for the owners, you get a GREAT feel for the competition and the vacancy rates. While making the decision for my second property, I was super concerned that as a loft in downtown I would be limited by the 7 day minimum required by my HOA, and doing this allowed me to see the vacancy rates for the entire 2014 year are so low in my price point that I should have no trouble. In addition, by using the Map feature (just like Craigslist) you can quickly tell how location impacts cost. So while it takes time, I think you get a lot more information and better feel for the market.
Rehabber · Niantic, CT · Member since 2012 · 443 posts · 150 votes
12y
@Evan R., we've had a lot of success with HomeAway, so I've really only used them to this point for both my advertising and my research (though HomeAway bought VRBO, so we do appear on there and, I think, Cyberrentals.com). But as more sites are added, I imagine I will expand to include AirBnB, etc when searching for rental comps. It's definitely an expanding arena.
Tough call on whether a listing would be deactivated or not when unavailable for a season. We've rented our house for a full season but have left it active; people start contacting us in the winter for their summer rentals, so it behooves us to have our listing active, and I imagine it would be the same for an owner whose place is "unavailable" b/c they're using it vs "booked" b/c it's rented. But again, I don't think this distinction is large enough to skew your results when checking vacancy rates.
Watch for the new forum Vacation Rentals. It will be dedicated to all things Vacation Rental. Hopefully all the VR investors will be able to help each other out, etc. and it will be easy to find.
Great forum. I have used mashvisor for researching vrbo averages. They seem to have LA covered but still a little skimpy on OC numbers for some reason.
Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes
11y
@Sid N. (sorry my @mention didn't work) it would be helpful if you could add a picture to your profile as there's more than one Sid N. (if you don't want o upload a personal pic, maybe one of a local landmark, hobby, etc.)
Though we aren't marekting the condos yet, you're right, they will be great ones for Vacation Rental properties. Here's a link that you and others can follow to keep track of the progress. San Clemente Condo Project