Octoplex in nice neighborhood

Octoplex in nice neighborhood

Lexington, KY · Member since 2010 · 315 posts · 133 votes

I am interested in an 8 plex that is literally a stones throw across a major road from the nicest area in my town (approx 300,000 population). this area takes a step down in "class", but of course no MF exists on the other side of the road. It is one of the best rental spots close to these nice areas that isn't on campus.

It is not the nicest looking from the outside (2 story - motel looking style 8 plex). But is in a good area. SFR's on the street go for about 175K+. SQFT per unit is 610 and they are all one bedroom. currently 100% occupancy, owner says they rent easy, currently rented for $550 per. 5 of the units still owner paid electricity but owner is and has been converting those to tenant paid as the leases roll over. I think this is because there is a fairly new owner. According to PVA property was last sold Jan '09 for $285,000 - seems a bit suspicious that he just got in and wants out so quick. Prior to that it was sold in 1997 for $160,000.

Listing price $305,000
Gross rents per month $4,400

Mortgage @ 7.5% assuming $0 down payment and paying full ask price = $2,132 per month payment (As you can tell by the terms I am assuming worst case scenarios to be conservative).

So it meets the 50% - barely - and does not meet the 2%.

I don't think expenses will be that high, building looks to be in good shape - not alot of deffered maintenance, relatively low taxes in my area, etc.
I am expecting a small amount of cash flow, and some price appreciation over time - looking for a long term buy and hold.

What do you guys think?

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Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
16y

Could be a fix and flip that didn't work out as expected. Could be someone who got in and realized he or she didn't want to be a landlord. Offer what you think its worth and if they don't bite, move on. This is a numbers game. Here's another rule of thumb. Look at 100 properties, make 10 offers, buy 1. Right now it looks like you're 1% of the way toward buying a property.

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  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    16y

    Average rent of $550/unit. That's right in the range where the 2% rule works. Not sure why you say "I don't think expenses will be that high". All the usual considerations that go into the "50% rule" would apply.

    Now, if you self manage you can earn the PM's cut of the expenses. But with eight units, you will earn those.
    With your terms, and if you're paying for a PM, you're just break even. With terms of 6.5% and 20 year amortization, I get a P&I of $2274, which makes this slightly negative. Using $2200 as NOI and subtracting $800 a month, I get $1400 as the max payment. Using 6.5% and 20 years, this is worth about $188K.

    Need to be sure you can really get all the units over to fully tenant paid utilities.

  • Lexington, KY · Member since 2010 · 315 posts · 133 votes
    16y

    I say that I don't think expenses will be that high because property taxes are relatively low in my area, the building does not have a lot of deffered maintenance or upgrades and I do plan on managing the property myself.

    It seems to me that you are correct that this property seems to be essentially break even.

    And doing simple math of $550 * 8 * 50 makes the property worth $220,000 according to the 2% rule. But there is no chance of me buying this at $188,000 or even $220,000. Again, this is one of the more upscale neighborhoods so I feel more comfortable with the higher value/asking price.

    I do want to make certain of the utilities being transferred to the tenants, I can't imagine the tenants being fine with dumping the utilities on them while keeping the same rent.

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    16y

    Most maintenance is caused by people living in it.

    If you're self managing, its better to value the building assuming you're paying to manage then earn the management fees. With eight units, you're essentially going to continuously be showing one of the units, unless you're lucky in terms of either keeping tenants in place long term or getting new tenants very quickly.

    You MUST speak to brokers in your area to find out what kind of terms you can get. I have no idea of the 20/6.5% is accurate or not, but you MUST have a good idea of what YOU could get in order to evaluate the deal.

    With those terms, I put break even at about $295K. If you end up putting 30% down, your payment is $1540 giving you $660 in cash flow. That's really just from your down payment.

    If you're self managing, you'll earn $440 a month doing the PM job. So, total cash flow is $1100 a month or $13,200 a year. Given you have $89K in down payment (plus costs, which are non-trivial but which I'm ignoring) invester, you're getting a 15% cash on cash return. That's OK, but along with that you've now bought yourself a part time job. If you decide you don't like that job and hire someone else, your cash-on-cash drops quite a bit.

    I assume your tenants will pay heat, once you convert.

    No new investor thinks expenses are that high.

  • Rental Property Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2009 · 624 posts · 559 votes
    16y

    Jimmy, after following your discussion with JOn (who is a master with numbers) I don't see a deal here...

    And more importantly it doesn't appear that the seller is motivated... which is critical for you to get a good deal.

    I am sure there are other deals that would provide a better return than this one.

    Best of luck!

    Pete

  • Will BarnardPro Member
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    Developer · Santa Clarita, CA · Member since 2008 · 15k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    16y

    I would have to agree with Peter with the inbfo given. Why pay full retail anyways!? Deals happen when sellers are desperate and this one does not appear to be.

    Go after distressed sellers, keeping your focus on those deals only will speed up your success rate.

    Will

  • Lender · Fort Pierce, FL · Member since 2009 · 825 posts · 486 votes
    16y

    Just FYI on rates, one of my lenders quoted a rate under 5% (I think it was 4.675%) but that was on a 15 year loan 50% LTV to an experienced apartment owner. Not sure of the amount of the loan.

    Ask around as the above quoted rate may be apples and oranges or Red Delicious vs Granny Smith.

  • Lexington, KY · Member since 2010 · 315 posts · 133 votes
    16y

    Thanks for the responses.

    What is your thought on the timeframe this owner has owned the property. As I mentioned he purchased the property in January of '09. Might the fact that he is turning around to sell that quickly indicate that he is motivated? Or perhaps he himself realized the deal was not that great?

    I had thought I would consider paying about $250,000 for it, but not sure how the seller would respond or what his motivation is.

    What do you think about the short holding period of the current owner?

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    16y

    Sounds like a fix and flip.

  • Lexington, KY · Member since 2010 · 315 posts · 133 votes
    16y

    Could be a flip - but buying it for $285,00 and listing for $305,000 a year or so later? He is not even owner-agent so he'll lose on commissions alone.

    Doesn't seem to make sense other than he got into it at too high of a price expecting more return than he is realizing (as discussed in this thread) and is trying to sell. Perhaps he is motivated to cut his losses?

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    16y

    Could be a fix and flip that didn't work out as expected. Could be someone who got in and realized he or she didn't want to be a landlord. Offer what you think its worth and if they don't bite, move on. This is a numbers game. Here's another rule of thumb. Look at 100 properties, make 10 offers, buy 1. Right now it looks like you're 1% of the way toward buying a property.

  • Foreclosure Specialist · Lansing, MI · Member since 2010 · 13 posts · 4 votes
    16y

    Where are you getting a mortgage on an income property with $0 down? I know it says assuming, but it's not gonna happen.

  • Rental Property Investor · Mercer Island, WA · Member since 2008 · 22k+ posts · 14k+ votes
    16y

    Its an assumption used to do the value calculation. The opposite of a cap rate, which assumes your pay cash. Compute the value assuming 100% financing. The cash flow produced by that value is from the property. Then, apply your actual down payment and recompute the actual payment. The additional cash flow is from your down payment.

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