My First House Hack Unsuccess Story

My First House Hack Unsuccess Story

Rental Property Investor · Bronx, NY · Member since 2011 · 193 posts · 322 votes

Ok, I sorta lied, but I got your attention ;-)

Although this story is full of bruises, blood, sweat, tears and bad decisions, I still consider it somewhat successful... may not be the best investment ROI-wise, but could've been much much worse :-)

Firstly, let me preface this by apologizing because this post is so overdue and soooo long, I'm sorry! It must be the slight OCD in me to want to cover every detail. But I know as a newbie I would have LOVED to read something this detailed with all the ups, downs, lessons and costs. I've been studying real estate for a few years and I learned A LOT along the way, but DOING is def the best educator. I still did things I heard multiple times not to do, and I kicked myself as I was doing them. I just hope my experience can help someone out there in their journey.... So here we go :-)

I FINALLY closed on a 3 unit multifamily house on March 10th, 2015 in the Bronx!!! AHHHHHHH I was so excited! Although the actual closing was very anticlimactic - sign sign sign sign 1st born child (that I don't yet have) and now your done... no champagne, no trumpets, no confetti from the sky.... nothing. After all the turmoil I'd been through just getting to the closing table, I wanted just a little more fanfare. Almost 2 years of trying to wholesale (alone and in partnerships), I started actively looking to buy something/anything the summer of 2013, had 2 failed condo contracts, moved into one of those condos as a 'rent with the first option to buy' before finally finding this property via a direct mail of July 4th cards I sent in 2014 and being in contract for 7 months before finally closing.

LESSON: Stay focused and don't give up, you are bound to get where you are headed. One step at a time, it will happen!

After the seller called and I looked up the property, since I know how to use Acris (NYC's tax and property info database), I found out that the seller had paid cash (during foreclosure auction) and must have rehabbed it, so I knew he was an investor. And because banks left a bad taste in my mouth after the condos failed, my thoughts where to pitch him on the idea of seller financing, with me doing a refi in 1-2 years to cash him out. When we met and started talking price, he was asking above my strike price (if I was purchasing with a traditional mortgage), so I told him I could only offer what he was asking IF he was willing to hold the note with a payoff in a couple of years. Mainly because I knew I would not get approved for the asking amount by the bank (for reference, he was asking $535k and I had previously been pre-qualified for $200k for the condos). Anyway, I think that "IF" part went in one ear and out the other because he started going on and on about how good his mortgage broker is and how it's no problem he could get me approved, etc etc. I didn't harp on the price because I was dead certain I wouldn't get approved and we'd have to bring the price down anyway. More than anything I really didn't like the thought of wasting so much time applying with a bank just for them to decline me (I really wanted to close before the end of 2014). But I went ahead and called his broker and so the long, tedious, but ultimately well-worth it, journey began....

Issues Before Closing:

1. DEBT-TO-INCOME - We signed the P&S contract in Sept 2014. About 2 months into the process, my broker tells me he thinks my loan is going to be denied. He couldn't resolve the DTI issue because the write-offs I had taken on my taxes the previous couple of years made my net income too low. Fortunately, he already had a replacement bank in mind. The bank had just started offering a new loan product where they didn't need to look at your taxes at all... Perfect! He had never worked with this bank before, but he thought it was out best shot. So we withdrew the other application before they could decline me (it's important to do it before because other loan applications will ask if you've ever been declined!) and submitted the new application with the other bank.

LESSON: Have a great team, they will save you if they know what they are doing. Also, minimize tax write offs in the couple of years before you plan on buying if you are going the traditional bank route.

2. APPRAISAL - The appraisal came in at $505k (contract was for $535k). The seller tried to fight it and talk with the bank, but ultimately they stuck with their appraisal. It was very thorough, I had a copy to review. But the seller was really stuck on his price and wanted me to pay the $30k difference to them in a second note outside of the closing. I can't lie, I didn't like the idea, but I actually seriously considered it. I crunched the numbers, and because I was sooo eager to buy, they didn't look too bad to me. So I initially told him yes, but after MUCH deliberation and getting advice, I decided to tell him I changed my mind and I couldn't do it. He said he would have his attorney send bank my earnest money deposit. So I officially walked away from the deal the first week of Dec 2014 and it was the hardest thing to do, I'm pretty sure I cried. I WANTED IT SO BAD! While waiting for my earnest money refund, I figured I'd take a break for the holidays and start looking again in Jan. Two weeks later my lawyer calls me and says the seller agreed to lower the price and sell at $505k with no side deals.

LESSON: Don't be afraid to walk away from a deal. Don't let emotions get in the way (I know it's hard for newbies and your first deal), this is business. The person willing to walk away is the one with the strongest position in negotiations.

3. TENANTS - When I first saw the property in July 2014 it was vacant. The seller offered to help me by finding tenants so that when I closed, I would have rental payments right away. He would rent the top 2 units for $1,850 each (both are 3 bedrooms), and save the 1st floor 2 bedroom unit for me. The tenants would pay for their own electricity and water since everything was separately metered (I asked repeatedly about the water since I knew it wasn't normal in NYC for tenants to pay water... more on that later). So we agreed to him placing tenants with the caveat that I would be able to look over all tenant applications/background checks and give final approval BEFORE the tenants moved in. He found a few candidates but didn't place them because the new Certificate of Occupancy had gotten delayed. He got the CO in mid December, and started looking again for tenants, and found a few. I asked to be updated and to get their background info. Yes yes yes, don't worry, he told me, you will get their application packets soon. After the holidays (mid Jan), I still hadn't heard anything about the tenants, so I called the seller to get an update and that's when I find out one already moved in and the other was moving in that weekend. In my head I'm yelling WHAT HAPPENED TO GETTING MY APPROVAL!?! But I ask him about it calmly and he says "Oh don't worry these are very nice people, I want to pick only the best, a lot of people I did not accept because they would not be good for you, I will still bring you their applications," etc etc. I trusted the seller because he was sooo nice during this process and was a established investor, I figured he would know how to screen tenants properly so I just said a little prayer that he picked good people and everything would turn out ok... I didn't want this to kill the deal a second time.

LESSON: I didn't fully learn this until after closing, but ALWAYS VERIFY EVERYTHING!Don't trust verbal agreements, get it in writing so you have recourse if the other party doesn't follow through. Don't be afraid to ask for monetary compensation if something was not followed as per the agreement! It might seem as if you're being an a$$ but so what, even the "nicest" person has their best interest at heart, not yours. Protect yourself!

Issues After Closing:

1. ELECTRIC - My first electric bill was ridiculously high (almost $500 for half a month) and I got complaints almost immediately from my tenants as to their super high electric bills (almost $1,000!). After countless calls back and forth with Con Ed and having them come out to assess the meters, I ended up needing to get an electrician to come out and take a look. Come to find out, every unit was wired to the wrong Con Ed meter. The 2nd floor was paying for the 1st floor (me) and the hallway (which was wired together with the 1st floor), I was paying for the 3rd floor and the 3rd floor was paying a "estimated" (read: made up) amount from Con Ed since their meter actually was reading 0. By time the electrician had the accounts switched and wired the hallway to a separate box (in which he needed to put multiple holes in my walls/ceiling to do) the bill was almost $2,800 (and yes, I had multiple quotes).

2. WATER - There was a $7,000 past due 2014-2015 water bill owed by the seller. Half of it was from surcharges (which are 100% of cost) for not having a water meter plus late fees. They were supposed to pay the bill in full before the closing, but they hadn't because they were still fighting the surcharges since they insisted the property was metered. So escrow held $10,000 from the seller's proceeds until the water bill was resolved. I got the new bill for 2015-2016 which was another $7,000 (for a total of $14,000), but was told by my closing attorney that the seller was disputing the surcharges, so wait until they got those resolved so the surcharges could be taken off of my bill too. I waited a little, but then started investigating and found out the $14,000 water bill had just been paid in full..... by my bank (they had it categorized as a delinquent tax bill)! So now my loan escrow was $14k negative! After agreement with the seller's attorney, the title company released the seller's full escrowed $10k to me. In multiple calls with DEP (handles water bills in NYC), I found out the reason surcharges were being assessed was because they never received a permit for a meter at the property (the property was built in 2007, so the original developers never returned the permit to DEP). It didn't matter that there was physically a meter present, it didn't count because there was no permit (bureaucracy smh). I got a couple of quotes from plumbers install a new meter w/the appropriate permits. One quote was for $4,200 and another for $3,475. The cheaper quote confirmed that his quote included the cost of the new meter (which is $1,000 by itself!), so I went with him. Ends up, he doesn't listen to anything I said about the meter situation and ends up pulling the wrong permit, which costs about $1,200 and could not be credited to the correct permit (we tried). So he wanted me to pay him an additional $1,200 to cover the new permit that needed to be pulled AND $1,000 to buy a new meter. Because when he told me his quote included a meter, he meant he already had one unused from another job, but ends up that meter is outdated and couldn't be used. So his originally quote of $3,475 ballooned to $5,675 because he didn't know what he was doing.... and he wanted me to pay for his mistakes! ARE YOU CRAZY?!? After a LOT of back and forth we settled at $4,925 (he basically wouldn't make any money off the job - he's a GC who hired the plumber). But once the meter was installed and DEP approved it, I was switched to monthly billing and refunded most of that 2015-2016 bill, including the surcharge fees. I'm now waiting for the credit on my water account to be paid to my bank, applied to my escrow and bring me current.

3. TENANTS - I didn't get the tenants' leases/application packets until closing, not before hand like I was supposed to. So it wasn't until I was sitting at the closing table that I found out 1) their rents were for $100 less than the seller told me they would be, 2) the leases were for 2 years instead of 1 and 3) the leases said nothing about paying for their own water. I was just so upset at the closing, that I didn't think until way after that I could have at least asked for a credit of $4,800 ($200 loss per month for 24 months). Hindsight is 20/20.

So far one tenant has been fantastic and pays on time majority of the time. Even when she is slightly late, she leaves me an apologetic note letting me know when I'd get it. The other tenant paid on time the first two months, then started paying about 2 weeks late every month. They would never communicate, never apologize or tell me when they expected to get it to me. It was as if it was their right to pay whenever they could. I eventually gave this tenant a very stern letter with their rent statement in October, letting them know that they were taking advantage of my kindness and because of the continued lateness 1) if they were late again with parking rent, their car would be towed and 2) if they were late again with the apartment rent, I'd be giving them a formal Rent Demand followed by filing a Non-Payment Petition with the court, which would be on their record whenever they were looking for a new apartment. They've paid on time since then :-) So the seller's choices of tenant ended up not being ideal, but not too bad. I bought in an area that still has growth to do, so there's a certain caliber of tenant. I figured the seller picked well based on the options he probably had.

THE NUMBERS

Purchase Price - $505,000

OOP Closing Expenses:

  • $10k EMD at contract signing
  • $11k cashier's check brought to closing
  • Approx $2k additional in checks at written at closing
  • I didn't have to pay my bank's closing fees (about $16k worth) by taking a .25% increase in my rate (so my final rate ended up being 3.875% - still not bad!)
  • So about $23,000 covered my down payment (which was $17,675) and all non-bank related closing costs.

Monthly PITI: $3,240 (Yearly Taxes $5,240; Yearly Insurance $1,545)

Monthly Expenses*:

  • Water and Sewer - $225 (approx)
  • Common Area Electric - $50?
  • Vacancy @ 5% - $190
  • Maintenance/Repairs @ 10% - $375
  • Management - $0 (self managing)
  • Retirement Account loan repayment - $50
  • Total = $890

Monthly Income:

  • Apt 2 - $1,750
  • Apt 3 - $1,750
  • Parking spot 1 - $100
  • Parking spot 2 - $150
  • Total = $3,750

*I don't know the monthly charge for common area electric, as I haven't been charged separately for that as of yet.

*I believe vacancy rates in NYC are closer to 2%, but I used 5% for cushion.

*Even though I'm not accounting for the management fee, whenever I move out, I will still have positive cash flow if I decide to pay for a PM (but I will prob still self-manage).

*I took a loan from my 403b retirement account to help with the down payment funds, so I included that repayment into my expenses.

I know the numbers officially make me cash flow negative by $380, but I haven't been putting the vacancy and maintenance/repair reserves away like I should, mainly because I've been using them (+ more) to correct all the water/electric issues I explained earlier. But even when I start saving the reserves (which should be soon), my fiance and I will be splitting that $380. So paying less that $200 a month for "rent" in NYC is still pretty great :-)

Plus this leaves the rest of our W2 income to save for our wedding, school, and the down payment on the next house hack (which we will close on together, this first one I closed on by myself). I only plan to be in this house for about 3 years before buying the next house hack, but I'm very eager to continue building my portfolio in the meantime (in the Bronx or outside of NYC - Trenton? Philly?). I want to use the BRRR (buy, rehab, rent, refinance) strategy to acquire more units.

In the meantime... I'm going to start reaching out to leads I still have who responded to that first mailing (I've already checked which ones haven't sold since then), if anyone wants to partner on Bronx 3-4 family properties. I plan to acquire at least 10 units in 2016 :-)

Whew! Well if you've read everything thus far, I commend you. And if you just skimmed through, I don't blame you :-)

Thanks for reading, I hope my experiences and mistakes help someone else avoid them and I welcome any insights/future advice!

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Most Popular Reply

Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
10y

@Nicole (Dunlap) Pendergrass, wow!

I believe your thread title IS and will continue to be: a REAL lie!

A big thank you for sharing the whole story. Onwards and upwards! Cheers...

See this reply in the discussion

71 Replies

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  • Investor · Cleveland, OH · Member since 2015 · 6k+ posts · 2k+ votes
    10y

    @Nicole (Dunlap) Pendergrass, wow!

    I believe your thread title IS and will continue to be: a REAL lie!

    A big thank you for sharing the whole story. Onwards and upwards! Cheers...

  • Chris MasonPro Member
    Moderator
    Lender · CA · Member since 2015 · 9k+ posts · 10k+ votes
    10y

    > Also, minimize tax write offs in the couple of years before you plan on buying if you are going the traditional bank route.

    It actually depends on which write-offs. Some are good, because they can reduce your tax bill but your lender can "add it back" as income.

    > One quote was for $4,200 and another for $3,475. The cheaper quote confirmed that his quote included the cost of the new meter (which is $1,000 by itself!), so I went with him. Ends up, he doesn't listen to anything I said about the meter situation and ends up pulling the wrong permit, which costs about $1,200 and [...]

    I feel like it's pretty common for the cheapest service provider to be the least reliable.

  • Investor · Coplay, PA · Member since 2015 · 404 posts · 315 votes
    10y

    I moved into a 3 unit and it cost me $300 for a 3 bedroom apartment. Could not beat that.

  • Realtor · Charlotte, NC · Member since 2014 · 935 posts · 467 votes
    10y
  • Real Estate Agent · Brooklyn, NY · Member since 2015 · 231 posts · 66 votes
    10y
    Nicole Dunlap All I can say is congrats and I can't imagine how excited you are for the next step! Nice to see a Nyer working hard and finding something. It is competitive over here. Sam Harris.
  • Rental Property Investor · Bronx, NY · Member since 2011 · 193 posts · 322 votes
    10y

    @Brent Coombs LOL, Thank you!

    @Chris Mason Thanks, NY is crazy!  (side note: I used to live in Kew Gardens for a few years.... I miss that neighborhood!)

  • Rental Property Investor · Bronx, NY · Member since 2011 · 193 posts · 322 votes
    10y

    @Account Closed

    I fiiiiinally finished the post!

  • Real Estate Agent · New York, NY · Member since 2015 · 17 posts · 3 votes
    10y

    @Nicole (Dunlap) Pendergrass

    Awesome post, Nicole. Great education esp. for us NYers. Very insightful all the way around.

  • New York City, NY · Member since 2015 · 46 posts · 15 votes
    10y

    Thanks Nicole- you are a great sharer of info!  As much as you give out I am sure you will get back. 

  • Orlando, FL · Member since 2015 · 33 posts · 10 votes
    10y

    Thank you so much @Nicole (Dunlap) Pendergrass !!! amazing insight

  • Homeowner · Katy · Member since 2014 · 88 posts · 21 votes
    10y

    @Nicole (Dunlap) PendergrassHey stranger! I totally remember this story when you first told me about it last year at the BP meetup. I told my brother your whole story later that night, he was shocked to hear all the mishaps the proprerty was giving you.  

    You have tons of golden nuggets here , and info for a mini e-book! Either way job well done! you've come a long way from Llew class :)

    I like how you have LESSONs earned after every step. when will you be able to Refi?

    We are in the middle of refinancing our Jamaica property. we should defiantly catch up...

    cheers, 

  • Developer · . · Member since 2014 · 520 posts · 162 votes
    10y

    @Nicole (Dunlap) Pendergrass this was a great post and congrats.  I know you were in tears some days but looking for the lesson learned out of the good and bad sitations will keep you focused and in a positive state of mind.  When things start to go bad it is easy for people to lose their motivation.  Totally agree with your lesson to verify everything.  Ask for a  picture, scan a receipt, confirmation number, ask more questions, and follow-up on it.  If you find out that you are working with someone who may not be the mos truthful (AKA liar), it does not mean you cannot ever work with that person again, you just know who you are working with.  Maybe I will start to look north of Baltimore (Philly area) and we can do a deal together.  Best of luck as you take over NYC.  Trump needs some competition!

  • Investor · Miami, FL · Member since 2015 · 28 posts · 7 votes
    10y

    Hi @NicoleDunlap

    Thank you very much very sharing! 

  • Developer · . · Member since 2014 · 520 posts · 162 votes
    10y

    @Nicole (Dunlap) Pendergrass also who is the lender that does not look at tax returns?

  • Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 145 posts · 65 votes
    10y

    Great job @Nicole (Dunlap) Pendergrass ! Lots of great lessons learned and shared. 

    My biggest questions is whether or not a pre-closing inspection would have discovered the issues with the water meters and the funky wiring? I would have never thought to check personally, but it's going to be on my checklist for looking at 3-4 unit properties.

  • Attorney · Attleboro, MA · Member since 2015 · 412 posts · 165 votes
    10y

    Great post! Thank you for sharing

  • Real Estate Investor · Jamaica, NY · Member since 2015 · 11 posts · 2 votes
    10y

    Wow and thanks for sharing, sounds like a great experience and as a newbie i agree i love reading stories like this so thank you for taking the time out....

    I am looking to build my team, even though he didnt follow your orders he seemed like he was most definitely on top of it who was the mortgage you were working with?

  • Rental Property Investor · Bronx, NY · Member since 2011 · 193 posts · 322 votes
    10y

    Thanks @Donald Placide! I'm not planning on refi-ing this one, but that's my plan if I happen to purchase more units with hard/private money.  Let's def catch up, I want to hear about Jamaica! 

  • Rental Property Investor · Bronx, NY · Member since 2011 · 193 posts · 322 votes
    10y

    @Shadonna N., Yes def please do reach out to me if you decide to come North of Baltimore, that would be great!  And "trust but verify" was another one of those things I heard a million times during seminars/conferences and I still ended up doing more trusting than verifying :-/ #neveragain 

  • Rental Property Investor · Bronx, NY · Member since 2011 · 193 posts · 322 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Shadonna N.:

    @Nicole (Dunlap) Pendergrass also who is the lender that does not look at tax returns?

    I don't know if they don't look at taxes for every loan product they offer, but mine was their FHA and my loan is with Rushmore Loan Management Services (based out of Florida). I can also give you my broker's info if you want :-)

  • Rental Property Investor · Bronx, NY · Member since 2011 · 193 posts · 322 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Andy Gross:

    Great job @Nicole (Dunlap) Pendergrass ! Lots of great lessons learned and shared. 

    My biggest questions is whether or not a pre-closing inspection would have discovered the issues with the water meters and the funky wiring? I would have never thought to check personally, but it's going to be on my checklist for looking at 3-4 unit properties.

     Ahhhhhhhh Andy you called me out!  Another mistake I don't know how I happened to skip mentioning.... I actually didn't get an inspection :-/  I KNOW I KNOW I can hear people gasping and moaning now!  This is why:

    I met with the seller's lawyer and the seller to sign the contract (I didn't have a lawyer at that point either :-/).  My full intention was to have them add an inspection contingency so I could get it inspected after we signed.  I had paid $500 for a last minute inspection on one of the condos that didn't close, so I def didn't want to shell out a ton of money for an inspection if the seller could potentially still go and sign a contract with someone else.  But the attorney basically said that's not normally how its done, you get an inspection done before you sign the contract.  In my head I was thinking "I don't care how its 'normally' done, we should be able to add anything we want to the contract!"  But we would have left the office with no contract signed for me to go get an inspection first, and I admit, I was really thirsty for a deal.  Also, the property was in the process of getting a new Certificate of Occupancy, and the seller and his attorney told me that the city does a very stringent and thorough check of EVERYTHING before issuing a new CofO.  So everything would be good and signed off on by a 3rd party.... so I went ahead a signed :-/

    I actually spoke to someone at DEP (water) about the new CofO and who should be responsible if they were supposed to sign off on the meter, etc, and he admitted they (DEP's inspector) would be responsible.... 

    LESSON (again lol):  Even though the city can be bureaucratic and make you jump through stupid hoops, doesn't mean all their employees will check everything they are supposed to before signing off.

  • Rental Property Investor · Bronx, NY · Member since 2011 · 193 posts · 322 votes
    10y
    Originally posted by @Danielle Golden-Banks:

    Wow and thanks for sharing, sounds like a great experience and as a newbie i agree i love reading stories like this so thank you for taking the time out....

    I am looking to build my team, even though he didnt follow your orders he seemed like he was most definitely on top of it who was the mortgage you were working with?

     I'll message you his info :-)

  • Canton, GA · Member since 2014 · 15 posts · 6 votes
    10y

    Thank you for sharing

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    10y

    @Nicole (Dunlap) Pendergrass ir eally like this strategy for those starting out.. buy a 4 plex use your FHA loan.. learn about rentals.. then when you move on you have a great 4 plex in a HIGH value area.. I would do this before buying a rental home and continuing to rent another home

  • Boxborough, MA · Member since 2014 · 230 posts · 62 votes
    10y

    Be the realtor you would want to hire and refer to. That is the bottom line. Try to find a good mentor who will help you along the way as you are getting your feet wet. You usually don't see a dime for a good 6 months. And after you get your license you will realize that there is a boatload of information you will need to learn, and that the learning never stops. You will make your money based on your reputation. If you make a good reputation for yourself, people will refer others to you. You will build up a base of clients that keep on referring. Make sure to keep in touch with those clients.

    I think people with a poor reputation don't last in this business. Ask yourself, would I want to work with or refer to someone who is unethical? I think not. Just my 2 cents.

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