This is what a contractor told me today. Do they need a diet or am I out of line?
I'm closing on a house next week and I'm trying to line up someone to get it rent ready. A contractor my PM company recommended came out and gave me a quote for about $17k. He said it would take about a week to complete everything.
Here are examples of SOW & pricing
Obviously there are other things, but wanted to provide examples.
Am I wrong to think he's crazy?
Don't hire a general contractor. You are right that is crazy for you, and he is right, he can't feed his family for providing you with a 15 dollar an hour guy. Hire a handyman, a roofer, and a painter and you just answered your own question.
If he is a G.C. and pays a guy 15 dollars an hour, it costs him closer to 22 dollars an hour to provide that.....(workers comp, other ins, tools, advertising, etc. and many other things). You are not wrong in this is expensive for you, but don't talk like he is way off for what you want in a weeks time.
Hey Brian. You mentioned Angie's list & although I'm new at this, I supervised the gut job on the house we live in. My floor guy was great, but the granite referral he gave turned out to be a COSTLY lesson on my part. Halfway through, I got on Angies List & it was great. I will say to read all the reviews on sub you are looking for. I go straight to A+ rated & look for subs that reviews said were great BUT NOT HIGHEST PRICE. I had great luck with them. I agree 100% with @J Scott .Move on... :)
By the way, when I was filling my day's with handyman gigs, I was $60/hour and up with a 2 hour minimum. I take pride in my work and people called me back. I learned quickly that investors and most realtors don't want to pay for quality so I didn't do many jobs for them.
Investors and realtors want to pay for above-average quality work at below-average market prices. It's really that simple...
Why would a contractor who does above-average work be willing to work for below-average prices? This has been discussed here before, but the answer boils down to volume and ease of work. My contractors are happy to give me better prices because they know that when they're working with me, they don't have to spend as much on marketing (I'll keep them busy) and they don't have to factor in lost wages for time spent giving bids for work they don't get (if they're working with me, they'll always get the job). Plus, once you're part of the investor community, it's pretty easy to find steady/consistent work.
That said, prices are going to vary based on lots of factors, and location is one of them. You mentioned in a earlier post in this thread that $200/square for roofing is ridiculous in your world -- a lot of this has to do with where you live. In the southeast, $200/square is more than I'd typically pay (we generally pay $150-160/square in Atlanta), but when we do work in Milwaukee, our lowest priced roofer is $210/square (we buy materials for about $110/square and they provide labor at $100/square). You really can't compare what you'd pay in the southeast with what you'd pay further north or west.
The problem appears to be that you are using a GC. This has you paying wholesale plus the subcontractor markup plus the GC markup.
You need to act as the GC and find individual subs if you want to get these lower prices being tossed around here. The concept of getting carpet cleaning services through a GC seems odd to me.
You need to act as the GC and find individual subs if you want to get these lower prices being tossed around here. The concept of getting carpet cleaning services through a GC seems odd to me.
That's one of the challenges of investing out of state. I live in NC and the property is in MI. I need someone to get the property rent-ready. I was hoping I could just turn it over to someone else, but the cost is too much. Looks like I will be there taking care of things myself.
Great point!
I rarely have a contractor walk off at the end of a job without a check in hand. Worst case, if it's out of state, I'll overnight a check and he'll have it within 24 hours. Also, I have a lot of contractors who ask for 25-50% upfront...while I would never consider paying a contractor I didn't know very well anything more than a nominal upfront fee, for contractors who have been with me for more than a few jobs (i.e., I trust them), I'm happy to make large payments upfront.
There was another thread from a while back where someone asked why a contractor would be willing to accept a lower rate from an investor -- here was the list I posted in that thread:
- They get recurring business from me, thus cutting down their marketing costs and reducing down-time
- They get referrals to other investors, thus increasing their income, cutting their marketing costs and reducing their down-time
- My houses are vacant, so there is less headache with rehab tasks
- My scheduling is done such that contractors don't need to put down clothes on floors and don't need to do any major cleaning when they're done (we bring in cleaners at the end)
- I pay consistently and immediately and contractors never have to wonder if they'll get paid
- I am a great reference for my contractors when they need one for other clients. I always have projects avaiable for other clients to come look at...often multiple projects. So, I'm marketing for their business
- I'm flexible wtih my contractor's work hours. If they want to work at 4am, they can. If they want to work at 10pm, they can. They don't have to worry about homeowners coming home and kicking them out because it's dinner time
- I do a lot of projects, so contractors can buy materials in bulk to reduce their material costs (200 gallons of paint at a time, for example)
- I don't need formal bids, so contractors save time
- Plus, in many cases, my contractors don't need to find any work outside of the work they do for me and those I refer them to. Since most contractors are horrible marketing/sales people, they appreciate that.
Well prices for contractors are certainly different around the country , as are house prices and rents . I visited family in Hickory NC and I was a rich man , when I visited the other half of the wifes family in New London Ct I felt poor all based on the price of housing .
While talking to my brother in law , He couldnt believe how I could afford to live in Maryland , because of the cost , I had to tell him Maryland was normal for cost , where he lived was cheap , he should be happy .
Normal costs are relative to where you are standing .
Roofing in Maryland near Annapolis $ 385 to $500 per sq installed
Roofing in Maryland near Annapolis $ 385 to $500 per sq installed
You should definitely be able to find cheaper than that...materials are $110/square -- if you're paying $250-400 per square for labor, someone is getting rich... :)
You should definitely be able to find cheaper than that...materials are $110/square -- if you're paying $250-400 per square for labor, someone is getting rich... :)
Contractor and labor costs really changes once you are not in a large urban area. I can and do find skilled, affordable contractors and labor all day long in Bakersfield. Hardly a huge urban area, but it's big enough and varied enough so there are choices about where to live. My contractors and laborers can buy nice places live in the $100-200K range and rents are affordable as well.
Contrast that were I live: I live in one of the cheapest parts of Santa Barbara, in an old working class section, with mostly very small houses, where the 2BDR fixer is down to $650K, with the worst school in the district. Two of my contractors and one of my gardeners lives on the same block. They are already living in the cheapest part of town, but they need to make 4 times what my Bakersfield guys do to stay afloat.
We can talk about $13/hr painters and the $12/cleaning ladies in Santa Barbara because they are here, but you'd want to avoid the conversation about where and how they live.
Taking another look at the numbers you initially posted, I'd say you certainly have a contractor that's on the higher side for handyman grade stuff but I can't call it out of line. At least, it isn't for Minneapolis. If he does great work, does it on time and you want great work done, I'd tell him you'll provide the paint (don't use anything they sell at HD, go to a real paint store) and pay him for the labor.
By the way, when I was filling my day's with handyman gigs, I was $60/hour and up with a 2 hour minimum. I take pride in my work and people called me back. I learned quickly that investors and most realtors don't want to pay for quality so I didn't do many jobs for them.
Sorry for being so long winded. Everyone knows that when you buy a car you can spend a little or a lot. The more you spend, the more car you get. Same thing with construction services. Take the lowest bid and you'll probably get the lowest quality. If that's all you're looking for then save the money but don't expect much in return.
Good luck
No they just expect breaks because they book months of your time for you.
Moving on: "
That's insane. 2K in materials??
Call big brush. I don't have any experience with them, but i heard they do ok work. @Tom A. may have a better painter than I.
You should definitely be able to find cheaper than that...materials are $110/square -- if you're paying $250-400 per square for labor, someone is getting rich... :)
I am not paying that , thats what the roofers are getting , I have a ladder and a nail gun , and guys that work for me , I hate roofing , but I hate writing checks even more .