Trust No One (when it comes to contractors...)
Real Estate Agent · Durham, NC · Member since 2013 · 81 posts · 39 votes
I found an HVAC tech online who had 64/64 five-star reviews on Google Maps. There was nothing but praise for him, so I gave him a shot. He diagnosed my problem as a faulty control board. He quoted me $700 for the board plus installation. I nearly said, "OK, do it". But then I looked up the replacement cost of the exact same board online and found that it sells for $380. I called him and said I found the board online for just over half of what he quoted me. He laughed and said, "That's the cost of doing business." A nearly 100% premium payed just for parts? I bought the board online, installed it myself in about 15 minutes. AC works. At least his diagnosis was correct.
Anyone have any ideas for finding honest contractors? I almost feel like the only way to find an honest HVAC tech is to become one myself. This guy now has 64 five-star reviews and one two-star review, courtesy of yours truly.
I went to the dentist yesterday. 20 minutes. $1200 invoice. I could've done the work myself with a mirror and swiss army knife.
So, let me get this straight. You place a higher value on a dentist than an HVAC tech? You clearly don't live in Texas. But the real issue here is that you have decided to come into an open forum and disparage someone, simply because you don't believe his expertise is worth what he wants to charge for it. The reality is, you would still have hot air blowing out of the vents of that property (instead of out of you), had this person not told you what the problem was. Yes, you bought the part and fixed it yourswlf, but I would bet money you didn't even know an HVAC unit had a control board, before this person told you.
And, had he written the quote to place the value his expertise delivers, you would have complained he was charging more for his time than your dentist. So, he marks up the parts to account for the fact that people like you discount his time and expertise because his hands are dirty.
The fact is, you don't respect him or what he does. Chances are you feel the same way about most providers of manual labor type services. Aaron's analysis was spot on. What's more, Aaron has been participating on the forums for quite a while. He behaves himself and interacts appropriately, so I personally find it offensive that you believe you can call someone out as a crook and disparage their character but have the right to tell Aaron to stay off the forums simply because he had the courage to tell you - to your face - you are acting like a jerk. Maybe you should build some credibility on the forums before you apply for the job of moderator. Just sayin'
Craig, a dentist has spent a little more time and money on his education than an HVAC technician. And if you are confident in your abilities, as a layman, to perform your own dental work by all means go ahead.
Are you sure? Some building departments make you go through 4 years of apprenticeship and 4 more years to become a contractor that's 8 years of training. Do you know about HVAC things like super heat, subcooling, maybe you were low on Freon lets see you buy that, as its regulated. Or maybe you can learn to fix your own furnace and not catch that hole in the heat exchanger which can kill someone! HVAC is an expensive business to run, this guy has tons of experience to tell you what was wrong, maybe you could have bought 5 parts before getting it right. Maybe he was selling a universal control board so he had it in stock these work just the same but have an expense to them. You should have contractor who you can trust, but they should be able to trust you not to come out tell them whats wrong and get nothing for it.
HVAC is a lot more complicated than it seems on the surface. If he has 64 five star reviews that is the reason he is expensive. You're going to pay a premium for good contractors. I'd rather pay more up front and know it is right rather than go back and fix something three or four times.
This topic has very little to do concerning how complicated or highly trained a contractor is. It could be a painter, locksmith, etc.
The contractor was nice enough to diagnose over the phone for free. When does this ever happen anymore? There is just way too much liability with our litigious society. If this contractor was wrong, OP would probably have sued him for giving him the wrong diagnosis over the phone.
But to make it even worse, he comes and puts an unwarranted review. I guess it serves him right for trying to be nice and give good/free advice over the phone. I am sure this is the last time he will do this again and rightfully so.
@Steve H. (my @mention didn't work)
We have NEVER in over 30 years marked up anything put in a clients home, etc. Had they wanted upgrades, etc., it has always been provided "at our contractors cost" actually SAVING them money. We've always tried to get good buys on land, design as cost effectively as possible, and make our profits off the deals. Also, we've never charged for estimates.
I think you missed Steve H's intended humor.
I can see both sides in this for sure. You are an analytical person, which is what it takes to be successful in real estate, and therefore you are looking at this particular situation as a black and white cost. You needed a job to be done and you wanted to pay a reasonable price to have it done. You found the price to be unreasonable so you went a different direction and in the mean time you saved money. That makes total sense to just about everyone.
However, being in Construction, which I am, I have learned that we are all in business to make money. If you desire each transaction to be simply beneficial for you and not the contractor, eventually word will travel and no one will bid your work. In order for it to be a healthy relationship for both parties, each party has to make sense. There is always room for negotiation in my opinion as long at it is done with the mutual respect to both parties. I have a huge respect for my subcontractors and there time. Often times they will do small repairs for me for free and I will make sure to take care of them on the next job. Other times you have to pay the premium so that they can keep their lights on and be there for you the next time you need them. To me a few hundred bucks to build a good relationship with, what seems to be a reliable trade partner, is a small price to pay.
I didn't get to read all the other responses, but here is a response from the gal of a contractor:
Yep, you gotta watch your back. We get shafted, too. Recently, my refrigerator broke and we had the same problem. We needed to confirm what we thought was the problem: $90 bucks... followed by the price of the parts: $100 bucks, followed by a quote for the labor (15 minutes of work) $200 bucks. He was pissed off that we didn't hire him.
This is how you find a contractor you can trust:
1) Don't rely on yelp or any online reviews. Those can be manufactured BY the person and/or their friends.
2) Check the contractor's license number. Never hire someone that is not licensed and bonded. Your last and solid line of protection is that they are licensed.
3) Get several quotes. Remember that the lowest price is not the indicator of trust - a thorough bid is. Compare the estimates - if someone's bid is outside the median, ask yourself why. Is someone over-pricing an extreme profit? Is someone under-bidding to get the job and then planning to add more after you have locked them in? Price your materials in general to at least know the ballpark figure that they should be in. That said, keep in mind that you are looking at the grand total. Your contractor may eat it on cabinets, but make his profit on the paint in order to make his bid affordable and reasonable. Talk to your contractor and get to know how he/she works to get the best deals.
4) Ask for referrals. Real Estate agents work and meet with many contractors. Ask your agent. You want to find a contractor that has been hired again and again because their bids were on target and they got their work done on time.
Best Business Blessings!
I didn't read all the pages but from the first and last pages I read, Im with you man, its hard to find honest contractors regardless of what rating they have. I found that most review are by people who have no clue what is going on and how to do something, they are just happy it is fixed. I guess ignorance is bliss when you dont know you are getting ripped off. A fair mark up is 20-50% not 100% as for other people talking about overhead I dont know what they are talking about. If you hire any contractor from a big company or go to a mechanic shop they will charge you roughly $100/hr labor time, but that is not what the tech is getting, they probably making less than $20/hr. The left over $80/hr covers over head. My advise to you is read through the reviews and find the ones who actually know what they are talking about and just doesnt have the time to fix things, so they pay. All other reviews are useless, its like asking advice from a person who has never had tacos before and they have tacobell for the first time and say taco bell is the best tacos in the world.
"A fair mark up is 20-50% not 100%..." @Royce Talbo
Again, as many here have repeatedly pointed out, "mark up" is not the issue. You've misunderstood.
sorry didnt read all the pages but from what I read in the original post thats what it sounded like. I went back and read through the 2nd page and you are correct as the OP gave additional info.
I have to agree I don't see the dishonesty at all.
And yes...sometimes they will make nice money on a job!!!!!
YOU GET WHAT YOU PAY FOR. GOOD WORK IS NOT CHEAP AND CHEAP WORK WILL ALWAYS BE CHEAP WORK. ANY PROFESSIONAL HVAC COMPANY HAS OVERHEAD LICENSED INSURED AND BONDED WHICH COSTS MONEY. THEY HAVE TO PAY FOR THAT SOME HOW WHICH IS USAULY LABOR. NOT COUNTING HIS WORK TRUCK THAT HE HAS TO FILL UP TO DRIVE ACROSS TOWN. ON TOP OF HIS OWN PERSONAL TIME HE TOOK TO ANALYZE THATS PROBABLY WHY HIS LABOR WAS SO HIGH. BUT THERE ARE SOME VERY GOOD TRUSTWORTHY HONEST CONTRACTORS OUT THERE JUST TRYING TO TAKE CARE OF THIER FAMILIES.
I THINK ITS A LITTLE MUCH TO SAY TRUST NO ONE WHEN IT COMES TO CONTRACTORS IS A BIT FOUL .
BTW, I'm extremely envious of your location...
Wrong!
The business models are very similar. There is a finite logistics chain from mfg to consumer. Each represented step increases the cost for their services, including the retailer/service provider that ultimately sells the product/service to the end consumer. We don't scream bloody murder at Maersk shipping because they charged 12% of the cost of the product to ship it from China to the USA.
What we see through this thread is you don't feel the mark up of 100% is fair, and perhaps in your view it is also of a nefarious nature. You have been given valid business points as to why a service provider would need to market up the cost of products provided as part of their overall services.
What you should now see is that a good representation of professional real estate investors with years and years of experience (I'm one of them) feel that the mark up for the part in question is not unreasonable. Would we all like for it to be less, yeah, I'd say yes to that as would many others too.
I like to learn my lessons on the backs of others failures, struggles, challenges, and or constructive commentary. That's just me though, and now you know.
I think I am confused but I don't see anything "dishonest" about the quote. Business is business, period. You didn't like his quote? Then that is fine. You're certainly entitled not to use his services and find someone else lesser of.
This is my first ever post ever on bigger pockets. I simply had to point something out to all the people like me who read all of these posts and responses. The mere fact that nearly every single person has agreed that to use this man's knowledge at his expense without any appreciation and then leave him a bad review to hurt his business when you don't like his quote is disgraceful. What is more incredible to me is two things. 1. Not once after all of these people explain why he is wrong does he humble himself and say maybe I'm not in the right about this. Perhaps I change my mind and should correct this wrong.
2. The last post this man has talks about greed and it being such a downfall to honest business. This infuriates me because this guy is blaming the contractor for being greedy while he expects others to offer him free information at their expense to save him money and do the repair himself and then leave a bad review for a guy trying to earn a living. The hypocrisy is incredible. To save a couple hundred dollars you disparage the name of a reputable contractor who went out of his way to help you? And he called HIM greedy! Pride hides greed pretty well I'd say. I'm still offended and I'm not a contractor. People are more important than our bottom line. When we treat others with kindness it tends to come back around to us.