Trust No One (when it comes to contractors...)
Real Estate Agent · Durham, NC · Member since 2013 · 81 posts · 39 votes
Trust No One (when it comes to contractors...)
Most Popular Reply
I went to the dentist yesterday. 20 minutes. $1200 invoice. I could've done the work myself with a mirror and swiss army knife.
95 Replies
- Stockbridge, GA · Member since 2015 · 159 posts · 33 votes11y
Originally posted by @Bridget D.:
Good for You!! It's a shame what some Contractors do! Now image you are a Woman in this business, he would have tippled the price he gave you! I have to ask my male friends to come over some times when I get quotes! I always do my research on new jobs down to watching an expert do it on YOUTUBE if I can. Now a Day I give them the option of what I will and will not pay letting them know if they don't want my money some one else will.
Hello Bridget,
I definitely like your stance with the contractors. We have to let them know that there is always someone else out there to contract with for our projects.
- Real Estate Agent · Pompano Beach, FL · Member since 2015 · 249 posts · 73 votes11y
Actually if we all could do repairs ourselves prices would seem like everyone in the service industry was ripping us off, but unfortunately we cant so their labor, overhead, and other fees is the cost of doing business.
- Madison Heights, MI · Member since 2014 · 472 posts · 132 votes11y
$380 actually still seems high for just a control board. A new furnace (depending on the size) can be purchased for around $400. How did you find the part? Did you try Google Shopping?
- Real Estate Agent · Durham, NC · Member since 2013 · 81 posts · 39 votes11y
Winston, it is a very high price. The board originally sold for $120 before it was deemed 'obsolete' by Honeywell. I bought the obsolete board just to rule out variables, but the replacement model from Honeywell would have been about $120. I found this out after installing it. So that would make it a markup of $580, or nearly 500%. But I guess that's fair, right contractors?
- Contractor · Pittsburgh, PA · Member since 2014 · 885 posts · 359 votes11y
you need to educate yourself about the supplies you need and what they cost. In the future, when you get quotes for labor, you can then say: "I want you to buy X from Y, this is the price ... you can bill me"
Almost everything you can think of to repair electrical, HVAC or plumbing can be purchased for a LOT less than you might think.
I have an account at R.E. Michel's for exactly this reason. I can get quotes for supplies from them in one phone call.
- Investor · Ann Arbor, MI · Member since 2015 · 13 posts · 4 votes11y
Hi all,
I have been lurking on BP for a long time, and I expected my first post to be on a more mundane topic, but I have something to add here, so I'm going to.
I had part in my furnace fail (I think it was a blower motor wheel) and the quote from the local HVAC company was around $500 for the part, installed. This was in the middle of winter, and we needed the furnace working that day, so I paid that amount for the 15 minutes of work plus the part. Afterwards, I did some research and I saw the price for the thing was in the neighborhood of $100, and I had the same reaction as Ross. I felt I'd just been ripped off!
I did do some thinking longer term thinking about it and I ended up feeling okay eventually. I realized that I could probably have not diagnosed this problem myself (the diagnosis fee was credited toward the $500 as is customary in my area). If I had used the diagnosis from the tech, I still would have paid for the diagnosis (something that Ross did not do here, if I understand correctly), and I would have had to find a way to get the part, fast! There is time in finding parts on the internet, doing enough research to make sure the part will work and is of high quality (and still there will be some uncertainty with that second item!), making sure I can actually install it via youtube or some other way, and then finally doing it. That would have been a lot of my time spent on this, and even then I wouldn't even have complete confidence that I had done the install correctly (I think Ross has more confidence in his handiness than I do, which is great!).
For Ross, I know you are handy and this situation did end up working out for you, but what if you had bought the part and installed it and it didn't work? What if the install was harder than you expected and you couldn't return the part? What if the part fails tomorrow because it wasn't of the highest quality? The more I think about my $500 spent here, the more I'm okay with it, on the furnace guy's side there's all the stuff already mentioned that this money goes to, but on my end, I get it installed same day (I know this may not have been possible for Ross), too there's a year's guarantee that it's going to work, a professional who knows how to install the thing and whom I can call if something goes wrong, and I don't have to spend a bunch of time and energy making sure I'm getting the right part, and I know how to install it, etc...Is this worth $400? I'm actually not sure on this one. There's something psychologically difficult about a 400% markup on something, just inherently (this what I was having trouble with too, initially), but I do not think this practice by HVAC contractors is dishonest. The guy who fixed my furnace just had a book he read the installed price out of. He even let me look at it (and there was no breakdown of parts and labor, so I couldn't tell what 'his cost' was). It was expensive, but as many others have said, it's a free market and a free country.
I also think I'm with some of the other's here on this - I think the contractor from Ross's story is a good guy, and a good business-person. He knows he provides a service that most people can't do on their own, and he charges for it (people can debate whether the price is fair), but based on the google reviews, he does good work and probably is above average in terms of customer service. People don't always give 5 star reviews based on price, some give them just because they are grateful that the guy could make the furnace work when it's 20 degrees outside. I only wish I had a furnace guy in my area who wouldn't charge me to diagnose a problem. I think, Ross, that it would be the right thing to do to remove your negative review if you can. I don't think this guy is trying to dupe you or anyone else with his pricing. Did I mention I wish I had an HVAC guy like this?
Let the discussion continue!
- Real Estate Agent · Durham, NC · Member since 2013 · 81 posts · 39 votes11y
This all reminds me of an episode of American Greed. Two women owned a small hardware store and signed a contract with the federal government. The women quickly realized that the government was automatically approving their bills. The women proceeded to charge tens of thousands of dollars for shipping on a part that cost less than $10. They took tens of millions in shipping premiums over the years until the government caught on. By the logic that several of you seem to follow, they did nothing wrong. The federal government felt different. The two were charged with fraud and given lengthy prison sentences. Greed knows no bounds, and neither does people's justification of it.
- Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes11y
@Ross Bernard As the saying goes, when you're in a hole, stop digging. There is NO justification for what you did, and to continue trying to justify bad behavior just makes you look worse. The majority of people that have responded to this post have sided with the contractor, not you, and there's a reason. YOU ARE WRONG!
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes11y
Posters need to refrain from character assassination type posts.
http://www.biggerpockets.com/rules
What is a fair cost is in the eye of the beholder. If you have 50 customers say you are doing the right thing working for cheap does that make you a more honorable person?? Does it make the quality of work any better?? It doesn't.
There are all kinds of consumers out there.
Some people would think what I make ( six figures per deal ) is nuts. Thankfully I do not need the worlds approval or consensus for my business model. If I get 10 of those clients a year I am over 1 million in gross income and the other tens of thousands of people that might not agree with what I make I could care less. All you need is a book of business where you have aligned interests with your clients and they see value in what you are doing.
I do not know the original poster or the HVAC person. None of us were there for this transaction to know 100% what happened. If the HVAC has 64 happy clients reviews to 1 ratio then that is doing pretty well. Any business has unhappy customers for whatever reason.
The takeaway from this thread is to really get multiple quotes and look at price, turn around time, and experience level of who you are doing business with.
- Youngsville, NC · Member since 2015 · 1 post · 1 vote11yNothing dishonest. You used his knowledge at no cost to you. For every paying client, I'm sure he provides 3-4 that don't result in any revenue for him. Judging by his reviews and your mistrust--I'd say he's not the one that's out of line.
- Professional · Nokomis, FL · Member since 2013 · 123 posts · 99 votes11y
Originally posted by @Ross Bernard:
Alexander, I would have paid him had he asked. I paid for his services twice in the past. He said the price of the board was $700. That is being dishonest; the board costs $380. If he had said, the board costs $380, installation and everything else costs $405, that would be honest. Same total, one way of breaking it down is dishonest.
He said the price of the board was $700...not his COST! I buy items at auction (my cost) and resell on Craigslist and eBay for a LOT more money (my price). Am I a crook or a business man?
BTW, anyone need a little grey doohicky for an old thing-ama-bob? me neither, but I probably bought 4 at the auction recently... and I saved a TON buying in bulk (its a sickness, I tell ya)
- Contractor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 43 posts · 9 votes11y
Saw this thread but didn't have time to read all responses yet so don't know if anyone pointed this out, but...
The possible reason for his mark up on price may be because it could be a part that could be 'problematic'. For instance, what if the board didn't work? When I, as a contractor, provide the parts, I ensure that it works. If it doesn't and I have to go back to my supplier, I eat that cost. The supplier may replace the part, but who pays me for the time in installing and reinstalling that part? There are times when we up the price for supplies because we take this type of thing into account. This is especially true for anything that has electrical components. I've personally had instances where I had to install the same plumbing fixture 3 times because the client unknowingly chose a fixture that had issues straight out of the box. They changed the choice after speaking to a rep and being told that they had been having problems with that model.
If you bought the part and he installed it, and it didn't work, you'd have to pay him for labor to replace it again. And if he tried to charge you to do the work twice, you'd think he was ripping you off.
Anyway, maybe he could have explained it a little better, but he was not ripping you off. There are a lot of things that the layman doesn't see that the professional encounters. His knowledge and experience are valuable. Good for you that the part worked and you were able to fix it. But think if the part was faulty, or needed something on it adjusted to work. You'd have wasted time and money trying to figure it out.
- Investor / Developer / GC · Manassas, VA · Member since 2013 · 229 posts · 39 votes11y
Why would you review him negatively. You used his experience to diagnosis the problem, phone one albeit, and did the work yourself. You should have given him his 65th 5* IMO.
Originally posted by @Pat Martin:
I'm not seeing the dishonesty. Maybe you don't like his quote but he's in business to make money.agree.
this story remind me of a garage door guy that came and said $100 to replace the RPM sensor (garage door didn't close all the way and goes back up).
amazon sells it for $8. i purchased it and replaced in 15 mins.
Hey Ross Bernard, I think you are getting an unwarranted beating here. I am with you. Don't tell me that a part costs double it's actual cost and then chalk that up to "cost of doing business". Now I expect him to mark the price up a little, but not by hundreds of dollars. Some people on here have suggested that he is just trying to cover his expenses, but I would feel better if he listed that out. If it costs him $50 to come out to my house and he is going to pass that on to me, at least tell me that. Everyone on here talks about transparency in their business, but shouldn't the contractor be transparent as well?
Personally, I would have taken that new found knowledge of the circuit board price to negotiate a better price or if I decided to do it myself, I would just tell him I didn't like his price and let it go at that point.
Why are some posters still stating that the contractor "marked up" the item from 380 to 700? The OP said part and install, which means the price includes the part and the necessary labor plus all of the additional costs that @Aaron McGinnismentioned straightaway.
Yes, as suggested, get multiple quotes, especially when you are outside your area of expertise. And, yes, get them itemized for apples to apples comparison.
But as for essentially using the guy, as Ross did -- hopefully inadvertently -- we all need to be respectful of other's time. It's like having the local shoe store clerks take time to fit you, then you go online and order the new shoes at a discount -- plus, you then post online that the shoe store is untrustworthy. I doubt Ross would enjoy this treatment were the tables turned.
- Severna Park, MD · Member since 2013 · 7k+ posts · 7k+ votes11y
I am wondering what the manufacturers LIST price on the part is ?
- Investor · Wichita Falls, TX · Member since 2014 · 382 posts · 123 votes11y
I am glad you were able to get the part yourself and replace it. Nothing like a good DIY! however, If it was not an area you were familiar with, or really couldn't find the part, would you have paid the asked price or looked for a second opinion?
I had a call from my tenant that the A/C wasn't working..they had to actually go to the breaker to turn it off and on. The A/C people came out ( I had authorized them to do the seasonal cleaning and maintenance as well at the same time).
I got the bill for the regular maintenance..but on the bill was a charge for 20.00 for battery replacement in the thermostat. I could not believe it but it was there!
I was glad I had them do the other maintenance because it was all rolled into the bill..but if it had been just one service call to replace the battery, I would have been perturbed for a few days...but they did come out that afternoon and fixed the problem.
Lesson learned I am going to ask the tenant if there is a little battery symbol or the word BAT flashing on the unit.
I do have a relationship with this company they service my HVAC every year, I am not going to change that, they are always timely and professional.
I would not have expected them to come out and replace the battery for free though, as much as I know how much a battery cost and how simple it is to take off the cover and take out the old one and put it in.
As a tenant myself many years ago I received the damages deposit letter, 1.5 hrs to replace one blind, 1.0 to replace a bulb.
I wrote a scathing letter to the property management company about what I thought about it, but I chose not to pursue because I had moved 4 hours away, and felt it wasn't worth it.
Win some lose some.
- Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes11y
I have no problem with someone thinking a bid is too high and not using the contractor, or doing it yourself. What bothers me is that the contractor correctly diagnosed the problem, and the OP used that information to order the part, and fix the AC himself (still ok to this point) then the OP went off the rails by giving the contractor a bad review. I just think that was wrong, and totally uncalled for. Especially since he didn't even get a 2nd bid to know if anyone else would have bid it cheaper!
- Investor / Developer / GC · Manassas, VA · Member since 2013 · 229 posts · 39 votes11y
- your diagnosis of this topic is correct, IMO. I wonder what your diagnosis markup is, well I'm not paying it!!! lol
@Ross
Everyone else is wrong and you're right if it makes you feel better. Each time some use a reasonable analogy show you why you're are wrong you keep knocking it down. Sometime it helps to listen to dissenting opinions from our own. What I have read so far, it seems unanimous that you went over the top. I am on the side of those that think you were wrong.
- Austin, TX · Member since 2015 · 61 posts · 21 votes11y
I apologize and rightly should have had my post removed.
1. Asking a person for free advice, getting the correct advice and then doing it yourself is alittle shady IMO esp when the contractor was in good faith believing that he would get the job. Otherwise, why would anyone give free advice just to have someone do it themselves? If this was the case, these contractors would be quickly out of business. Its not the Best Buy for contractors.
2. Getting the correct advice, and then writing a bad review just because you did not agree is just bad Karma. I am sure if the roles were switched, OP would not like having bad reviews from ignorant people
- Chicago, IL · Member since 2014 · 710 posts · 200 votes11y
Pretty typical with HVAC. I had guys quoting me $240 to replace a $10 humidifier line a few wks back. Took me 10 minutes to replace and 20 mins out of my day stopping at a hvac supply house
- Investor · Irvine, CA · Member since 2015 · 373 posts · 205 votes11yI'm in agreement with others here there are no signs of dishonesty. When you look at the markup chain for products from mfg to consumer a chart would be all over the map. Why? Because every small, medium, and large businesses have different cost structures and target profit margins. If we all simply avoided gross margins over X turn we'd never drink coffee out, order pizza in, or go out to a fine restaurant for a meal. When I hire my local Midas to complete a break job on my car I'm not really thinking about the fact that they charge $199 to do my brakes when O'Reily's sells those same pads for $39. I'm frugal'er than many, not as much as some, but even so I'm willing and ready to pay someone to fix and repair. 2-3-400% unreasonable. 100% not so much.
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