Trust No One (when it comes to contractors...)
Real Estate Agent · Durham, NC · Member since 2013 · 81 posts · 39 votes
Trust No One (when it comes to contractors...)
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Investor · Sacramento, CA · Member since 2011 · 87 posts · 56 votes
11yI went to the dentist yesterday. 20 minutes. $1200 invoice. I could've done the work myself with a mirror and swiss army knife.
95 Replies
- Investor · Portland, ME · Member since 2014 · 38 posts · 14 votes11y
@Ross Bernard So did you pay him or offer to pay for his time to trouble shoot the problem? If not, I wonder if calling him dishonest makes it easier to justify using his expertise and time and then cutting him out of the job at his expense?
- Sandwich, MA · Member since 2015 · 31 posts · 7 votes11y
im a service plumber and 700 is reasonable. cant return electronic parts to the supply house so the markup significantly exceeds 30% on the control board. he was just covering himself from a loss if the furnace needed more parts after the control board and you fired him. then he would be stuck with a $350 control board.
- Realtor, General Contractor, and Developer · Redding, CA · Member since 2009 · 7k+ posts · 4k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Ross Bernard:
Alexander, I would have paid him had he asked. I paid for his services twice in the past. He said the price of the board was $700. That is being dishonest; the board costs $380. If he had said, the board costs $380, installation and everything else costs $405, that would be honest. Same total, one way of breaking it down is dishonest.
The fact that he provided the information to you, enabling you to buy the part and do the work yourself, says a lot about the contractors integrity. He didn't charge you for anything, though he had every right to charge for the diagnostics. You on the other hand, took advantage of what he provided and were able to fix your unit saving you hundreds of dollars, THEN, YOU GAVE HIM A BAD REVIEW! That's shameful. Time to admit, you were wrong, and make it right!
- Contractor · Carolina Beach, NC · Member since 2014 · 157 posts · 89 votes11y
This entire post, and it's title, is laughable. There is nothing dishonest at all about what he did. You are free to do the work yourself.
- Investor · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2014 · 415 posts · 299 votes11y
Originally posted by @Ross Bernard:
I found an HVAC tech online who had 64/64 five-star reviews on Google Maps. There was nothing but praise for him, so I gave him a shot. He diagnosed my problem as a faulty control board. He quoted me $700 for the board plus installation. I nearly said, "OK, do it". But then I looked up the replacement cost of the exact same board online and found that it sells for $380. I called him and said I found the board online for just over half of what he quoted me. He laughed and said, "That's the cost of doing business." A nearly 100% premium payed just for parts? I bought the board online, installed it myself in about 15 minutes. AC works. At least his diagnosis was correct.
Anyone have any ideas for finding honest contractors? I almost feel like the only way to find an honest HVAC tech is to become one myself. This guy now has 64 five-star reviews and one two-star review, courtesy of yours truly.
I would say the HVAC contractor is a lot more honest than you in this situation. You allowed him to diagnose the problem (apparently on his dime) and then turned around and used that knowledge to save a few dollars by doing it yourself. If that's not bad enough, you gave him a bad review to negatively impact his livelihood? After accepting his original estimate without even comparative shopping? Shameful actually - but I bet if you had screwed up the install by doing it yourself, this "dishonest" HVAC guy would've been the first you would've called to bail you out. You may want to re-think your approach to business in my humble opinion.
- Investor · Belleville, MI · Member since 2015 · 131 posts · 40 votes11y
Originally posted by @Ross Bernard:
Kent here is the difference in your analogy: I don't have access to Walmart's suppliers. If Walmart sells a shirt for $10, and Target sells the same one next door for $5...
Unfortunately, that contractor probably buys from a supplier that also marks up that part. I am sure he pays more than you did online. There are people willing to sell that part to you making only $1.00 That is the way the world works. He is not going to spend all the time dealing with multiple vendors. He also has every right to mark up the part. You also have the right to get multiple quotes. That is great about a free market.
I am finished, but I come from a service industry, and this post offends me. We all have families to feed. He came and CORRECTLY diagnosed your problem. A dishonest contractor would have told you to buy a new unit for thousands. Just my opinion.
- Investor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 688 votes11y
Originally posted by @Ross Bernard:
Alexander, I would have paid him had he asked. I paid for his services twice in the past. He said the price of the board was $700. That is being dishonest; the board costs $380. If he had said, the board costs $380, installation and everything else costs $405, that would be honest. Same total, one way of breaking it down is dishonest.
agree. someone done dropped the truth hammer.
- REALTOR® · Bastrop, TX · Member since 2013 · 324 posts · 191 votes11yThis post is riddled with ignorance.... First, and previously mentioned, trades work with warehouses that provide them just about everything they need for any job.They aren't going online for every job to find the cheapest deal on Amazon, eBay, etc. So, you keep saying his costs for the part is $385, but you have ZERO evidence to back that statement up. His supplier may charge $450-500. Second, he is reselling a part to you and is free to charge you whatever he wants for it. Saying the part costs $700 is what he is willing to sell it to you for, you can accept or decline. This, however, doesn't make him a liar. Finally, and as mentioned several times already, the fact that you think it's acceptable to abuse his integrity, experience, and knowledge by taking his diagnostic and doing the job yourself, without compensation for him, shows how much integrity and respect you lack. Someone asked if you paid him and your response was you would have if he asked. A person with respect and integrity would mail his *** a $250-300 check without prompting and a nice card to say thank you. P.S. The shady review is a whole other subject.
- Nottingham, MD · Member since 2014 · 109 posts · 37 votes11y
As almost everyone else has said nothing dishonest there, markup is doing business. Do you add extra to the rent for capex? I used to work in automotive and the markup was closer to 300% on parts. That set of brakes cost them 30$ but they charged close to 100$ plus labor. You are paying for their time and knowledge.
Not everyone is ripping you off, they are making a living just like you.
- Real Estate Agent · Grand Rapids, MI · Member since 2013 · 20 posts · 2 votes11ySounds like a reasonable repair bill to me. He spent his time finding and getting the part. If that part fails he will have to replace it. Sometimes you can find people that will let your order the part but they will not be held liable if there is a problem. Find people who do good work and pay them what they are worth!
- Investor · Orlando, FL · Member since 2011 · 70 posts · 36 votes11y
@Ross Bernard, you missed my point regarding the shirt from Walmart. You can change it to whatever retailer you want... they will mark their product up more than just 10-15%. There are other items, such as jewelry, that get marked up 600-900% all the time!
That's a good point previously made about automotive parts. You can go down to the automotive store (if you know what the problem is) and buy the part yourself and install, or you can take your car to the shop where they are going to charge you labor and mark the part up substantially; you are paying a higher price on the part for convenience and for the technician knowing what part needs to be replaced.
Also, did your HVAC guy say that HIS cost was $700, or did he tell you it would cost YOU $700? That makes a big difference. If he told you "my cost is $700, I'll pass it along at cost and just charge you for labor" then THAT would be a dishonest statement and I could understand you being upset. He was simply marking up his product... a percentage that you don't think is reasonable.
Also, I may have missed it, but I didn't see your response regarding the diagnosis: Did he make a service call and come see your unit, or did you only discuss it over the phone?
We haven't seen your actual review, so possibly you only expressed your disappointment in being quoted a marked up product rather than accusing the contractor of being dishonest. I hope that is the case.
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes11y
I think the topic needs to be kept on point. It seems that the person should be paid at least for diagnosing the problem.
Contractors can roll many ways. They can charge regardless for a service call and then credit that amount if the work order is agreed upon to the total bill. This protects the contractor to at least get paid for their time.
The other way is to constantly go out to diagnose problems then have the people say they want to do themselves or not want to do anything looking for an unrealistic solution. In that case the contractors tend to bid the jobs they do work on a little higher to offset.
Companies sell stuff ultra cheap all the time. They are just volume selling parts. Last year I learned from a Youtube video how to sand down the heating element because it was igniting and then turning off. I did it for my time and that was it and now it works perfectly. I didn't pay anyone because I researched and did everything myself.
Leaving the bad review seems to be over the top. You were able to fix the problem at a reduced costs and save money. The person does not even get paid for their time and then you negative review them on top of that.
None of us were there to see and hear the conversation. Based on what was posted it doesn't seem like anything malicious by the contractor. It sounds like the HVAC guy works more with home owner types at retail prices. Nothing dishonest about working for retail. If you want cheaper contractors then you need network with other investors to find the HVAC, plumbers, etc. that do volume for work at lower prices. Retail contractors have a lot more advertising costs and presence to pay for than a small guy owning his own business driving a beater. The downside to volume contractors is they are in demand and rarely keep parts to stay lean. So the time they take to fix something generally is longer.
- Investor · Lake Saint Louis, MO · Member since 2015 · 84 posts · 39 votes11y
Yes the HVAC guy is running a business which does have expenses. But so are we. A landlord should be shopping around for contractors that are going to give them the best price and service, just like the HVAC guy should be doing with his suppliers. It's the free market. I'm shocked he didn't charge a service fee. He can't be all that bad of a guy if he diagnosed it for free without a service fee. Maybe you should check with some other companies in your area to see what they would have charged. Maybe he was in line with your market. Or maybe you can find someone else that would be cheaper that you can use next time. I've always thought that an HVAC company would take into account how much property a landlord owns and give you a discount in hopes of getting a lot of repeat business. So far I haven't found that company. Ross, if you're handy enough to fix it yourself and you just need someone to diagnose it, then try out www.justanswers.com . You can pay a small fee, usually $35 to $40 plus tip, to asked certified HVAC techs, plumbers, and electricians to diagnose your problems. You can send pictures and have a back and forth exchange with what steps to take to diagnose and fix the problem. I even got my outboard motor correctly diagnosed from a marine mechanic on justanswers last week when the local mechanic couldn't figure out the problem. It's a great service for a DIYer.
- Investor · El Dorado Hills, CA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes11yAre you also one of those guys that thinks Morton's or Ruth's Chris is a rip off because you can get a USDA prime fillet for $15.99 a lb at the butcher but they try to charge you $65 for a steak? Businesses have overhead and they need to make money. Without profit they cease to exist. Did you add up the value of your time to learn what was wrong (which you used him for), research the part, wait for the part, watch YouTube to learn how to install and then write him a crappy review? My guess is that you may have lost money unless your hourly rate is very low.
- 11yChris K.Pro MemberInvestor · Baltimore, MD · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 655 votes
I think your message should have focused more on being an educated consumer and doing your due dilligance than making it seem like this guy was doing something dishonest. I would have done the same thing you did but I don't blame the guy for running his business for a profit. I'm pretty sure everyone here has gotten vastly differing quotes from different people.
Edit:
To be clear when I say I would have done the same thing you did I was referring to looking up the cost of the part and installing it myself. NOT leaving him the bad review because you didn't like his pricing structure.
- Real Estate Investor · Lansdowne, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 656 votes11y
Well, now I know its in the wee hours of the morning but do my eyes deceive me because this sounds like a PRO-Wholesaling thread?! 'They can charge whatever they want' -- they should at least be paid for their time' because after all 'Its the price of business' -- OH YEAH -- I'm definitely following this topic. :-)
Kudos,
Mary
- Real Estate Agent · Durham, NC · Member since 2013 · 81 posts · 39 votes11y
- Let me clear a few things up, and then I'm done with this topic. He did not have the part in stock, he would have had to order it just as I did. HVAC is not Ruth's, it is not Walmart. Those are not at all comparable business models, so those analogies fail. I went to my mechanic the other day to get my oil changed. I got a quote on getting brake pads changed while I was there. He wanted to charge $130 for the pads plus $230 for labor. I looked online for the part and guess how much it cost? $130. But how can he possibly stay in business?! He charges for labor...Not sure why this is such a foreign concept to some of you. Sounds like we have a lot of contractors responding to this. If you want to charge people into oblivion for parts, go ahead. If you think that's honest business, we disagree.
- Rental Property Investor · Durham, NC · Member since 2014 · 1k+ posts · 1k+ votes11y
Originally posted by @Ross Bernard:
- I got a quote on getting brake pads changed while I was there. He wanted to charge $130 for the pads plus $230 for labor. .
If you were charged $230 for labor for brake pads, that's a vendor at whom you need to direct your wrath.
- Residential Real Estate Agent · Atlanta, GA · Member since 2009 · 381 posts · 134 votes11y
Anyone can have a five star review on Google Maps. Get a referral from another landlord or rehabber next time. Real Estate is a team sport. Find a couple of contractors you can trust.
- 11yEngelo RumoraBusiness MemberInvestor · Toledo, OH · Member since 2013 · 4k+ posts · 2k+ votes
Originally posted by @Ross Bernard:
I found an HVAC tech online who had 64/64 five-star reviews on Google Maps. There was nothing but praise for him, so I gave him a shot. He diagnosed my problem as a faulty control board. He quoted me $700 for the board plus installation. I nearly said, "OK, do it". But then I looked up the replacement cost of the exact same board online and found that it sells for $380. I called him and said I found the board online for just over half of what he quoted me. He laughed and said, "That's the cost of doing business." A nearly 100% premium payed just for parts? I bought the board online, installed it myself in about 15 minutes. AC works. At least his diagnosis was correct.
Anyone have any ideas for finding honest contractors? I almost feel like the only way to find an honest HVAC tech is to become one myself. This guy now has 64 five-star reviews and one two-star review, courtesy of yours truly.
Contractors have been a thorn in my side it feels like forever now lol
I probably had $20k + stolen from us in 2014. From folks disappearing after a draw, to buying a boat instead of finishing the job.
I suggest starting off very small and getting to run around for you prove their worthiness.
If all goes well, then look at giving them bigger jobs.
Make sure ti hire slowly and fire quickly.
Thanks
- REALTOR® · Bastrop, TX · Member since 2013 · 324 posts · 191 votes11yRoss Bernard you should read my post about the source of said part and how it may or may not be the same. I can't tell who's a contractor and who isn't, I'm on mobile, but if they are telling you how it is then you should listen. EVERYONE is in business to make money, but this is NO different than you raising rents on your units just because you can, vs. needs to. Do you charge market rent or do you charge just what you need to cover your baseline? NO ONE faults you for going the least expensive route, that's smart business. What almost everyone is faulting you for is pulling a jerk move by calling this guy a liar, leaving a crap review, and not paying him just because he didn't ask. Compensate him for his time, remove the review, and you'd be golden.
- Real Estate Agent · Bloomfield Hills, MI · Member since 2014 · 117 posts · 30 votes11y
It the same as taking my 20 year old Lexus to my mechanic.... 100% parts mark up and $100/hr labor. Ridiculous, but am I going to spend a day fixing it myself? Probably not....
- Nottingham, MD · Member since 2014 · 109 posts · 37 votes11y
he was charging you 130 for the brake pads but what did they cost him? 50? 60? That would still be a 100% + markup. Just sayin.
- Real Estate Broker · Canton, GA · Member since 2010 · 15k+ posts · 11k+ votes11y
It's all in how things are packaged with perceived reality for value.
I have seen before where 2 pizzas for instance with up to 2 toppings each are 16.99 for a special. Same place had 2 pizzas anyway you want them 19.99.
Even though the 19.99 was 3 dollars more expensive the special sold like hot cakes. The research showed amazingly that 85% of orders were for just 2 to 3 toppings on each pizza. The callers were so excited to get anything they wanted but decided on 3 topping or less most of the time. So for one more topping the provider was getting a 3 dollar upside.
Most people do not know what parts cost but they haggle on labor. The brake pad guy went cheaper on parts but really high on the labor. So you paid close to the same it was just packaged differently. I want to know I got a fair deal with the parts and the labor. You have to split them out.
Sounds like you ran into a retail HVAC guy. Of course they do not keep random parts they do not use all the time. A lot of units are special order if up in age. If a provider carried a part for every possible item they would go out of business due to overhead and storage expenses or the price would be double for the convenience.
I used to do things a lot myself early on with investing until my time started being worth thousands an hour in earnings. Now I just try to get the best price with the most competent person and move on. Early on you have lot's of time and no money. Later on if everything goes right you have little to no time and lot's of money. Anything less than my average return on time I pay someone else to do it. Some people just like to tinker and will do it themselves anyway regardless but that is more a labor of love and hobby than a time versus cost issue.
Not a contractor..... do not want to be a contractor............. : )
- Baltimore, MD · Member since 2015 · 301 posts · 82 votes11y
If you spent the time to bring in a second contractor, you would of found out easily if the first contractors quote was valid or not. Or if you did some research before signing the contract so you can qualify his bid.
I think this should be a lesson learned the hard way, not a thread bashing contractors.
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