FINALLY! How to find A+ contractors

FINALLY! How to find A+ contractors

New to Real Estate · Nampa, ID · Member since 2015 · 66 posts · 49 votes

Over 6,000 posts and A LOT of podcasts later people still do not know how to find a GREAT contractors.

Raise your hand if you want one!

There is no need for a lengthy post short and sweet makes it happen.

I am a contractor and I rely heavy on reputation and referrals so I know this technique works everytime, in every market, everywhere!

the Home depot idea is fine except A+ Contractors don't shop at the box store for their parts they might pay a little more going to a specialty store but its a one stop shop for quality products everytime with people educated to help. So before you set out to the Depot or Lowes at 6AM remember those people are the "Do-it-yourselfers" which doesn't make them bad it just makes your chances of finding Pro's lower.

Step one: locate your states building department EX: Idaho

http://dbs.idaho.gov

Step two: Locate the building department

~you will want the building department regardless of if it is Electrical, Plumbing, HVAC, or GC

Step three: Locate the list of inspectors

Step four: CALL THE INSPECTOR

An inspector see's himself or herself as a super-hero they love to be asked questions and to be seen as a professional with ALL the answers. Ask them about a contractor you want to use, ask them if they have heard of them, ask if you know of any A+ contractors, ask if they like long walks on the beach, ask, ask, ask. They love to chat and be seen as the hero. This is not a time to be shy. Thank them!!! Ask if you can buy them lunch sometime this will help you next week when your getting an inspection!

Getting on the right side of the inspectors is like making friends with the kid at school who sells candy bars...if you hang out long enough you might get a freebee.

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Contractor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 651 posts · 510 votes

10y

@Nate Hawkins Sorry but I think asking inspectors to recommend or rate contractors is as silly as the ubiquitous HD 6:00am suggestion. I don't see how it would be proper or ethical for a city inspector to give an endorsement. I also think it highly improper to attempt to bribe them with lunch in order to get a favorable inspection (I hope you were kidding).

Like most things, there are no shortcuts to finding good people: it takes time. Referrals from friends and neighbors are probably the best, albeit non-foolproof, method. Generally, if a company conducts business in a professional manner, i.e, has gone through the time, expense and effort to have proper licensing, insurance, etc and has a record of longevity, they will be reliable. They will also cost more but you get what you pay for.

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Lennie Holland
Superintendent · Gainesville, GA · Member since 2015 · 107 posts · 35 votes
10y
This sounds like a great idea @Nate Hawkins, however if I'm not mistaken, let me think.......yep I've hated almost every inspector I've meet. I don't do well with people with a god complex but it might be worth a try
1 Reply
Nate Hawkins
OP
New to Real Estate · Nampa, ID · Member since 2015 · 66 posts · 49 votes
10y
@Lennie Holland Im glad to hear your inspectors are like ours! Never try anything that is a word for people expecting to fail. It DOES work. especially the part where you do something for them.
0 Reply
Lennie Holland
Superintendent · Gainesville, GA · Member since 2015 · 107 posts · 35 votes
10y
Yeah @Nate Hawkins I think it's a good idea that I haven't heard before so kudos on original thinking. However if I take them out to lunch it might be hard to hear what their recommendations are as I'm choking them over the table, hahahaha
0 Reply
Manolo D.
Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
Nate Hawkins Haha, this is the first I have heard of it also. I only like government inspectors because I have all the time in the world when they visit my site, they also love to hang out at my site because I have all the time to chat in between their boring work. They are mandated to report to each and every site at a maximum 48 hours, really they visit everyday according to them. Commercial and residential inspectors, not so much, they visit me then 5-10 mins, they are off. I never talk to them, and I have a standing instructions to my supers/foremen to not chat, the lesser they talk, the more chances of inspectors not to stay on my project site. I don't hate them but I would like them to get out of my jobsite as fast as possible. I might not get recommended but for sure our company is better than the do it yourselfers at home depot, they take the job and look at you tube on how to install it. hahahahaha!! i find the home depot advice funny, for what it's worth. I buy from home depot but I don't let my guys buy something at 6am, I need 3 days worth of materials, and I only buy the shortages in between so the lines aren't long. Major items, I just buy it from my regular suppliers, quality materials always.
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Nate Hawkins
OP
New to Real Estate · Nampa, ID · Member since 2015 · 66 posts · 49 votes
10y
Manolo D. I totally agree when they are on site let's try to get them out quickly. It is interesting that everyone has strong dislike for their inspectors. Now that everyone has A+ contractors from this technique we should start a thread on keeping them which is EASY!
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Mark Brogan
Investor · Roanoke, VA · Member since 2012 · 1k+ posts · 374 votes
10y
great idea @Nate Hawkins
Trying this next week
0 Reply
Manolo D.
Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
Nate Hawkins Sorry, but I don't believe that this idea will work. I am sure some, if not most inspectors know "someone" in the trade, and it most probably be someone they are working with, a relative or a partner. Which is always dangerous. lol. I know because most of my inspectors have GC licenses, and they are allowed to accept side jobs, they simply refer one another. Is it an assurance that they do perform on A+ level? No. Do they know how to screw people and get away with it? Absolutely! They have been trained by your taxes of course. I simply cant get a grasp on what separates this idea from the other big ideas pitched all over BP ie Home Depot at 6am. Keeping a good contractor is simply more work and paying more, more jobs and referrals might work.
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Christine Maar
Real Estate Agent · Antioch, IL · Member since 2015 · 3 posts · 2 votes
10y
My husband is a contractor that shows up at HD at 6am on occasion, and luckily also has great relationships with the local inspectors (whew!). I love the idea of gently asking the inspectors to provide referrals, as long as it isn't a conflict of interest. Thanks for the idea.
For those looking for good contractors for small jobs and don't have any place to start but google, consider asking the Pro Desk at Home Depot. They deal with a lot of regulars and can usually give referrals to contractors that have integrity, solid reputations, and decent personalities and aren't going to scare the neighbors and run off with your deposit. That being said, recommendations from friends and family are always the best route. It's sad how many hacks are out there.
2 Reply
Manolo D.
Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
Christine Maar They are more likely to get a conflict of interest advice, either from HD or inspectors. Some of those prodesk workers usually "have someone". One thing that works for me is I ask my representative of my supply house something like, can you give me a list of 5-10 contractors that has gross sales of 100-250k/year for the last 3 years AND has a credit line of 10k/mo AND pays you on-time. Now this is a customary for my tradr levels, and will definitely be not affordable for investors. They could tone it down the way they want, up to a level that is described as "a guy with a truck and maybe tools". Decent sized contractors rarely shop at home depot, they tend to be expensive but reliable, HD to me is an expensive store. I don't have any relation with any HD store, my lifespan to use a certain store is 1 month maximum, but I have worked with my supply houses for years.
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Account Closed
Contractor · Raleigh, NC · Member since 2014 · 651 posts · 510 votes
10y
@Nate Hawkins Sorry but I think asking inspectors to recommend or rate contractors is as silly as the ubiquitous HD 6:00am suggestion. I don't see how it would be proper or ethical for a city inspector to give an endorsement. I also think it highly improper to attempt to bribe them with lunch in order to get a favorable inspection (I hope you were kidding).
Like most things, there are no shortcuts to finding good people: it takes time. Referrals from friends and neighbors are probably the best, albeit non-foolproof, method. Generally, if a company conducts business in a professional manner, i.e, has gone through the time, expense and effort to have proper licensing, insurance, etc and has a record of longevity, they will be reliable. They will also cost more but you get what you pay for.
3 Reply
James Hamling
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
As a PROfessional Strategic Rehabbing GC I would like to set the story straight.
A) The city inspectors to refer me, LOL!, aahhh no, they know of me, and I have spoke a few sentences with several here and there, but for most part my foreman on sites have had the in dpth conversations of "yup, this is the place, here is the area to inspect, yup we did xyz, thanks, bye". The inspectors and us are not buddies, were not "bro's" hanging out shooting the breeze, we have work to do and no time to sit n chit chat. And once more, the inspector is a natural adversarial position, there job is to verify work, to seek out incorrectness and to strive to fail a GC's inspection, by nature they are against us and God bless em for it because even then they miss too much by too many.
If you want a PRO at rehabbing don't ask about gross annual sales of 100K, thats not a pro thats a handyman at best and even thats a stretch. I have months I damn near burn thru 100K, literally, and I am small potatoes. What is the average rehab, 35, 45K, and easily into 50 or 60k. So at 100K that guy does a whole whoppin 2-4 jobs per year.
Go to the pro desk and say "can I please speak to the pro area manager", if there around no one will say no. Whe they come up be nice, introduce yourself, what you do and honestly ask "so who is the real deal that I could rely on as my rehab GC"??? Just because a GC is "good" dosnt mean there good at rehabbing. SOme are all about commercial work, others at high end detail woodwork, others are all about sec 8 unit turns, and others have the nack for design and nailing the perfect flip.
How do you find a good GC for your kind of projects, go look for the GC's doing good at those kind of projects, its really that easy, go find similar projects and find out who is doing them, walk on site if need be. Talk to realtors, find finished listings and ask who did them.
And yes, we do shop at Home Depot and Menards, matter of fact the big box stores regularly bid and lobby for our volume, and I have many times been a top volume purchaser in the individual stores and with that the managers know exactly who I am and what I do, cashiers who knows. Those big box stores have stepped up and they have the supply volume that specialty can not compete with, I receive some items at a loss for them because they know it cements our volume for other items.
If you want a quality REI GC, look for them DOING REI projects, the qualified are not sitting desperate for work, there working. And EXPECT them to not compete with the lowest prices, because the lowest prices are liar prices, or hack prices, a quality guy charges a legitimate $$$ and can readily justify the costs with exact pricing structure and not off the hip guesstimates. Pay more than the worst, receive the best, profit on time and ease of quality volume operation.
1 Reply
Manolo D.
Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
James Hamling Just to set it straight, an average rehab is 50k, materials are what, 20k? If I am looking for my sub through my store, say flooring and paint store, if they order 100k gross sales (remember this is specialty store), that means, 100k worth of JUST MATERIALS, how much do you think their job is? Say for flooring, how many doors do they have to do to purchase a volume like that? Say painting, how many gallons do they need to consume? I pay $13/gal for my paint Glidden Ultra Hide (just so you could compare to your big box), how much is your behr? 25? 30? LOL. If I order a paint material of 100k, I need 800-1M of contract a year at minimum, so goes for other trades. I buy my granites at what 100/slab, installation is what, say 300, so for me to order 100k granite materials at my store, I need 400k worth of contracts at minimum. Not really a 2-3 projects a year, am I still looking for a small contractor? And I have my network of subs won't really accept any jobs less than 20k, it is just not worth their time.
0 Reply
Account Closed
Frederick, MD · Member since 2015 · 654 posts · 256 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Nate Hawkins:
It is interesting that everyone has strong dislike for their inspectors.
Nate, I'm inclined to believe your post is well intended, yet I'm puzzled by your comments. Effectively, you're suggesting that folks contact the same inspector they dislike for a recommendation? Notwithstanding my confusion of that, should one seek the input of an inspector, as @Account Closed noted, there are potential issues with doing such. That said, readers should be cautious about that which they ask an inspector. Simply asking for a recommendation, could lead to being given their cousin's company's name. Not that that means that they're not a quality contractor, but...
I believe it's best to phrase questions that are fact based rather than opinion.
"Everyone" dislikes their inspectors? That's simply not a valid statement. And, personally, I'm cautious of those who have a widespread disdain for inspectors. Like or dislike of an inspector is irrelevant to the task at hand (i.e., getting approvals). Inspectors have a job to do and are often given great authority to interpret subjectively (hence the so oft found stamp on plans that state "subject to field inspection"). That's just part of the dynamic. Disagreeing with an inspector and liking/disliking them are best kept separated.
If I'm the client (e.g., investor, building owner, etc.) I want the inspector to be acting on my behalf and ensuring the contractor's work is up to code. I don't want an inspector handing out freebies, if it's at the expense of the work.
Sure, as the contractor, we benefited from such gratuity before, by receiving an approval without the inspector having actually inspected the work. BUT it was given based upon a long history of past performance (i.e., the inspector knew our company's quality of work, having seen it over and over for years), not because we fed into their god complex, bought them lunch, or hung out with them in hopes of getting the proverbial candy bar. I fully acknowledge that this didn't truly serve the best interest of the client, but that client hired us because of the quality of our work and the reputation that ensued.
For the readers here who may not otherwise know, it should be noted that if the plans/specs exceed code, yet the work in place only meets code, that may be a legitimate reason to fail an inspection. Kudos to an inspector who holds fast on this. Meeting code is not universally indicative of quality work either (the latter of which is subjective of course). Codes are generally written from a safety standpoint... I've walked through many a-room that were framed with 2x8 joists (that met code) only to hear all the china in the cabinet rattle, or see floor tile cracking due to floor joist deflection.
2 Reply
Manolo D.
Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
Michael Paris I believe the word is, "Almost everyone" and not "Everyone". I would like to add and clarify to readers that, inspectors are there to inspect strength and safety, not beauty. And you need to have beauty to sell or rent, to what level, it will be up to the owner.
0 Reply
Account Closed
Frederick, MD · Member since 2015 · 654 posts · 256 votes
10y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

"... the ubiquitous HD 6:00am suggestion." .
@Manolo D., I find the advice funny too!
While not absolute of course, I'm of the mindset that, if as a matter of practice, the guys found at the lumberyard at 6AM are:
- Early risers perhaps, but likely poor planners - stopping on the way home to get what is needed for the next day is better (and for those who wish to stalk the lumberyard to find contractors, I'd suggest going in the afternoon instead). Too many variables in the morning (e.g., traffic, chatting it up with the salespeople, etc.) that can only delay their arrival to the jobsite.
- They're likely the handyman type, day jobbers, the helper (i.e., not a decision maker in the company) or the like... the pros are having the materials delivered to the job as they value their time (and rest assured, if they don't value/respect their own time, they're not likely to value/respect others' time either). Besides, why would one want to pay a contractor to be out shopping - personally, I want them on the job working?
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John Arendsen
Homeowner · VISTA, CA · Member since 2015 · 726 posts · 340 votes
10y
We make our living by satisfying inspectors all over the state of California from the FED on down to the State, County and City levels. We deal with them multiple times every day of the week.
Some are tough to deal with as are the folks that we have to learn to deal with at the counters whence pulling permits and filing docs. But after 30+ years of doing this we've found that if you treat them right and don't lose your cool or think you're better than them they will usually loosen up and actually become quite pleasant to work with.
The worst thing you can do is cop a tude with a civil servant. Doing that is committing an agonizing slow and near death experience. If you give an inspector a hard time don't think it won't get back to the folks who work the counter who will make things even more unpleasant for you.
And please don't try going over someone's head if you can possibly help it. It may get you the results you want the first time but believe me you're digging your own shallow grave because you've just lost a friend.
Diplomacy and respect is the key to success whence dealing withy buearacrats and civil servants. My 3 cents worth adjusted for inflation.
2 Reply
Account Closed
Frederick, MD · Member since 2015 · 654 posts · 256 votes
10y
Originally posted by @James Hamling:

If you want a PRO at rehabbing don't ask about gross annual sales of 100K, thats not a pro thats a handyman at best and even thats a stretch. I have months I damn near burn thru 100K, literally, and I am small potatoes. What is the average rehab, 35, 45K, and easily into 50 or 60k. So at 100K that guy does a whole whoppin 2-4 jobs per year.
James, while I agree with some of the points made in your post, I believe that to define a professional (of any kind) by their gross dollar volume of sales is ludicrous. $100K worth of projects in the Midwest or deep South is very, very different than the same dollar volume of work in the Northeast. Additionally, capacity is not the only factor a purchaser considers. In fact, I suspect that there are those purchasers who would prefer being the contractor's big fish in their little pond, even if it's only a few projects a year, than being a little fish in the contractor's big pond of projects.
0 Reply
James Hamling
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Manolo D.:

..... I pay $13/gal for my paint Glidden Ultra Hide (just so you could compare to your big box), how much is your behr? 25? 30? LOL.........
Well Mr Manola D., just checking quick for apples 2 apples on what you specified we are at just under $10.00 per gallon so yeah, you may want to stop barking about things you are obviously uninformed of.
And an annual volume of 1million, you say that like for gross numbers its some big deal.
As for rehab numbers, ok 50k average in your area, you are aware there is other markets and averages than just yours right???? It does vary area to area and state to state, I myself have and currently operate in 5 states.
0 Reply
James Hamling
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Account Closed:

Originally posted by @James Hamling:
If you want a PRO at rehabbing don't ask about gross annual sales of 100K, thats not a pro thats a handyman at best and even thats a stretch. I have months I damn near burn thru 100K, literally, and I am small potatoes. What is the average rehab, 35, 45K, and easily into 50 or 60k. So at 100K that guy does a whole whoppin 2-4 jobs per year.
James, while I agree with some of the points made in your post, I believe that to define a professional (of any kind) by their gross dollar volume of sales is ludicrous. $100K worth of projects in the Midwest or deep South is very, very different than the same dollar volume of work in the Northeast. Additionally, capacity is not the only factor a purchaser considers. In fact, I suspect that there are those purchasers who would prefer being the contractor's big fish in their little pond, even if it's only a few projects a year, than being a little fish in the contractor's big pond of projects.
My point was to the original posting where it was stated that to find a "good" GC one simply needs to ask for a GC who is doing 100K per year in gross sales or more, that is the ludicrous statement as in ANY market of the us thats a tiny tiny volume.
I would say if one uses annual gross sales volume as any indicator of a GC being legit or not that it would have to be MINIMUM 300K-500K in any market.
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Manolo D.
Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
James Hamling You might need to re-read my post, obviously I am not talking about 100k gross sales on the contracting side, if you read my post, it is interpreted as 100k gross sales (on Material purchases) when you are talking to a representative or manager, there is no way for them to know a contractor's gross sales. Duh. I do not think a handyman can buy 100k worth of materials per trade. If you are buying Glidden Ultra Hide paints at 10/gal taxes included, Kudos to you, but I don't think you are buying it at any Home Depot stores, hence my point. In addition, most rehabbers can't afford a GC if the GC is grossing 500k in contracts, nor will the GC be interested in dirt cheap contracts for a rehabber that does 2-3 a year, they have more bigger fishes to fry. I come from a world where smallest project is 20M, for sure I know what small potatoes are. But for me, if a contractor grosses $1M a year, they are legit, qualified, and more than welcome to bid on some of my projects, if I need one, THAT is a big deal for me, people and companies who can perform, on time, and no ridiculous change orders.
0 Reply
James Hamling
Real Estate Broker · Minneapolis, MN · Member since 2011 · 5k+ posts · 6k+ votes
10y
Originally posted by @Manolo D.:

James Hamling You might need to re-read my post, obviously I am not talking about 100k gross sales on the contracting side, if you read my post, it is interpreted as 100k gross sales (on Material purchases) when you are talking to a representative or manager, there is no way for them to know a contractor's gross sales. Duh. I do not think a handyman can buy 100k worth of materials per trade. If you are buying Glidden Ultra Hide paints at 10/gal taxes included, Kudos to you, but I don't think you are buying it at any Home Depot stores, hence my point. In addition, most rehabbers can't afford a GC if the GC is grossing 500k in contracts, nor will the GC be interested in dirt cheap contracts for a rehabber that does 2-3 a year, they have more bigger fishes to fry. I come from a world where smallest project is 20M, for sure I know what small potatoes are. But for me, if a contractor grosses $1M a year, they are legit, qualified, and more than welcome to bid on some of my projects, if I need one, THAT is a big deal for me, people and companies who can perform, on time, and no ridiculous change orders.
I am sorry but I am at a loss for exactly understanding this, as I read it there is some confusing contradictions and some points that are just plain opposite from reality, I have to ask just how many rehabs you have ever done as I thought it was inferred that your venerated and have done a number, although your stated facts are just not in line with industry reality.
As I have a volume, both in labor and materials, well beyond that of any sub-contractor or handyman I have lower cost of operations, not higher, there in I am the guy others are struggling to competitively bid against, not I against the 2 guys-n-a truck who have greater cost margins than I. Even fixed costs such as insurances and licenses, when factored by volume, come into a reduction of margin per project dollar. As well I am able to bring to bear resources which a sub-contractor can not afford, such as structured production systems, technologies and software systems, all which improve productivity and again reduce costs.
And "Gross Sales" as in meaning gross sales for the supply store, still yet again, I spend that several times over annually and I am a small family owned business, with each project starting around 20k in material costing its real easy and quick to hit 400, 500k in materials. And yes, they know our averaged company gross sales volume, if they dont have an idea of the size of company of which they serve as a vendor, than they themselves are not a professional, matter of fact the guys at the pro desk are weighed on volume and for that they have to be in touch with a companies gross annual sales (roughly) as that dictates purchasing power.
And I never said I used that garbage paint, you keep referencing it, I have had that stuff banned company wide for years now, we ONLY use Bear and Sherwin Williams as it has 2X the quality and coverage, minimum, than that, which while per gallon it is about 23% more for materials I save on average 40% or more on labor, not only saving on labor costing but increasing efficiency and the volume of work potential per labor.
0 Reply
Manolo D.
Contractor · Los Angeles, CA · Member since 2015 · 4k+ posts · 1k+ votes
10y
@James Hamling Sorry, compared to you, we are of smaller potatoes, only 800 doors 2015 on MF. Some tiny tiny government contracts compared to your volume here and there. We only use Dunn Edwards, I was trying to use a company carried by Home Depot, only behr and glidden.
0 Reply
Jeff James
Real Estate Investor · Whiteland, IN · Member since 2014 · 54 posts · 20 votes
10y
Good thing contractors don't have God complexes like public sector workers.
0 Reply
David Doyle
Investor · Monrovia, CA · Member since 2012 · 219 posts · 79 votes
9y
Dear Brother Nate
I like your idea but I believe I have one a little bit better
I have 2 Califonia Contractor licenses which ive held in good standing for about 32 years
I would suggest BP members seek out an old school "Plumbing Supply House" that only sells to licensed plumbing contractors only no retailsales to the public. If your are courtiuos and friendly you can approach the countermen and ask for a recomendation on a good father and son plumbing company with a good reputation and who pay their bills on time ,,thats your guy.
Same thing goes for a good carpenter ,,,that is,,go to an "old school" lumber yard thats been around for ever that sells to primarily tradesmen.The guys behind the counter will gladly recomend a great contractor.Why? They no the good guys from the bad guys,,and THEY ABSOLUTELY LOVE THE GUYS WHO HAVE THEIR ACT TOGETHER WHO KNOW HOW TO RUN A BUSINESS AND PAY THEIR SUPPLY HOUSE BILLS ON TIME!!!!. They are happy to refer these guys!
Same goes for HVAC Contractors ,,,,Go to an old school HVAC /air condirioning supply house
Same goes for electrical contractors,tile setters and house painters.Youll do much better with this technique than hanging around a home depot at 6:00am
Hope this helps gang and please let me know your outcome with this technique
Dave Doyle
Los Angeles
1 Reply
Kristopher Smith
Rental Property Investor · Traverse City, MI · Member since 2016 · 20 posts · 12 votes
9y
WOW guys! Speaking from a contractors standpoint I believe in and appreciate a lot of opinions and or experiences that have contributed to our thread here. This is a very complex part of investing and I understand that it is scary to many of us as well as it is confusing to those who are not part of the constructing trades. There is no right or wrong with finding trades I am afraid.(in my opinion) when the economy is doing well, there is more work than can be handled by the respectable companies. This means that everybody"gets to eat". (Even the less respectable contractors ). Don't we worry however because the next downturn will push them all to menards and Walmart jobs like what happened in 2008. But I digress... I am an electrician and I am constantly disappointed in my peers in the construction trades . There are many good ones mind you however an outside person looking to break into any market will run into the same problems. Meaning, unless you have connections into that circle you are stuck going through the Yellow Pages or some sort of advertising agency. Unfortunately I know many great craftsman that do not know how to market therefore they are not as readily available as the great marketing geniuses Who do crap work and charge more. I hate to say that you were just going to have to build relationships through trial and error but I would always use as a wise man once said get three bids rule... I hate to say this but my wife used to get on me for telling her that just because we have a dentist or doctor doesn't mean we shouldn't get second or third quotes. Same goes for your lawyer or accountant. I am an electrician and I always get three quotes for every service that I will pay for. It doesn't matter if they are in school or licensed professional it doesn't matter if they wear a white coat or green coat or purple coat I am always going to get three bids/quotes. Nate has some great points. So if anybody made it this far through my rambling blabber I would only add that we are so lucky to have a venue of this quality and magnitude to communicate any type of questions or answers we would have. Happy new year to all you bigger pocket chasers! Love, your bigger pockets electrician, kristopher
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