pocatello, ID · Member since 2010 · 2 posts · 0 votes
[b]Electrical outlet is without ground wire and the hot and neutral wires are terminated at the ground screws - in other words the hot wire goes to the correct brass screw and the end of it proceeds to the ground screw and terminates under it. Same with the neutral wire. Has anyone seen this before? I've read the early 2009 diaglogue on replacing outlets with 2 prong only (hard to find) or GFIC. Is the termination of the hot and neutral to the ground screws a way of "fooling the inspector"? This is in a bedroom, no microwaves, computers or water. Would the GFIC non-grounded installation be the best bet?
The description cannot be correct if the outlet is live. As you say, Mitch, it would be a short.
Now, it is possible the hot wire it connected correctly but the neutral is connected to both the silver screw and to the green ground screw. That will fool an "idiot cube" tester.
The connect way to fix that is to replace it with a non-grounded two blade receptacle. Otherwise, you need to add a ground wire. Most current codes now require arc-fault interrupters for bedroom outlets.
The description cannot be correct if the outlet is live. As you say, Mitch, it would be a short.
Now, it is possible the hot wire it connected correctly but the neutral is connected to both the silver screw and to the green ground screw. That will fool an "idiot cube" tester.
The connect way to fix that is to replace it with a non-grounded two blade receptacle. Otherwise, you need to add a ground wire. Most current codes now require arc-fault interrupters for bedroom outlets.
The only way to know for sure is to test the outlet with a muti-meter. That way you can tell the polarity of the wires. I have seen people hook up an outlet using white for hot and black for neural (which is bacward) but it will still work. You just have to know how they hooked it up on the other end.
With AC you can hook either wire up to either screw and it will work. It is just a matter of safety to have it hooked up the right way.
I assume it is the black wire under the brass screw?????
I'm just a novice. So thought that the 2nd screw on each side of the old old outlet was the ground. I can identify the brass and silver, hot and neutral on each side, but there is a 2nd screw on each side. So the installer made an S, having the primary (hot or neutral wrapped nearest the wrapped wire and the very end of the wire forms the second half of the S and terminates under that second screw. I'm really just curious. I know that there is no ground wire. Was going to install a GFIC marked "no grounded" but am even having trouble replacing the circuit box (needed to be deeper for the GFIC, can't seem to get it nailed into the one side stud firmly and square. The back wall in concrete and close to the back of the box - so maybe someone with the correct equipment could attach the box to the concrete. But hey, going to call an electrician now. Good way to spend a Sunday afternoon, figuring out the hassles and complications that electricians face on older homes, etc.
Standard outlets have two screws on each side. If you look closely, they're on the same piece of metal. But there are small tabs that can be broken off to create two separate pieces of metal. This is done to create a "split" outlet. That's commonly done in a room with no overhead light. You connect one half of the outlet to normal power and the other half to a switch.
The second screws are often used, improperly, to connect onto the next outlet.
The second screw on each side is NOT a ground!!!!!! It is there so that you can either tap in wires for another outlet or if you break the tab between the screws you can run a second circuit to the second receptacle on the same outlet. Like Jon said.
The second screws are often used, improperly, to connect onto the next outlet.
Jon, I'm curious why you say this is improper. This is the way I was taught to do it in class. I think this is usually done to avoid overstuffing the box with an extra 2 pigtails. As long as you're not placing two wires under one screw, you shouldn't have any issues with arcing, How's it done in your area?
Pigtailing is the proper way to do it. Incoming wire, outgoing wire, and a pigtail all connected together with a wire nut. Then connect the pigtail to the receptacle. That avoids the receptacle being part of the circuit for the downstream receptacles.