3rd property in Philly

3rd property in Philly

Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 44 votes

So I just joined BP a few weeks ago and am excited to grow and learn from the collective legion of talent and experience on here.   I'm also excited to say I just bought my third property in Philly.  Now I know I may catch some skepticism here as I live in Seattle WA and so am having them professionally managed.   These aren't high class rentals, but cheap little houses that I think should cash flow nicely.  I've found a great broker agent/broker there, a few good contractors, and a what appears to be a really good management company.   I've done a fair amount of research on Philadelphia zip codes and have developed a pretty good sense of where to buy and where not to buy.   Two of these properties are in rapidly changing zip codes - one is in 19145 - South  Philly, one is not too far North of downtown 19121 and  one is a little further up  - 19132 and is in a decent, busy neighborhood and should have the best cash flow (32% cap rate).    The South Philly property I had prospective tenants lined up as soon as I posted an and just recently got a tenant that we carefully screened.  I'm hopeful the other two should be as easy to fill, though I'm still finishing up repairs on #2 and will start next week on #3.  My property manager (a pleasure to work with) tells me that as long as it's in a decent neighborhood, there's substantial demand for rentals in Philly.  Anyways - just wanted to introduce myself and see what other Philly investors come out of the woodwork. Thanks.

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Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
11y
Originally posted by @Gregory H.:

I've lived in Philly for the past 3 years, and those first two zip codes are at least adjacent to gentrifying neighborhoods. You would probably be safe to walk them in the daytime. 

I can't speak for the other two zips but 19121 is Brewerytown where I've lived for the last 3+ years. My wife and/or I walk our dogs multiple times a day (and night sometimes, unfortunately) in our neighborhood, walk to local eateries and coffee shops, have beers (at night!!!) at the local watering holes (RyBrew and Sarah's Place) and walk home etc. and haven't been shot or even mugged. Not even a threatening glare! We have 3 sets of young professional tenants in our quad and in the little over a year we've owned it, they haven't been shot, killed or even glared at either! 

If you think 19121 is adjacent to a gentrifying neighborhood, you're sadly mistaken. 19130/Fairmount gentrified years ago and Brewerytown/19121 has been on the upswing for several years (realistically more as I know people that have lived and invested there for 12 years at this point) now with no end in sight. 

Sorry for the cheerleader-y rant but, when someone that obviously knows nothing about an area that you happen to live in disparages it, it's tough to keep quiet! As a disclaimer, if you think you're "safe" anywhere in a big city, you're in for a shock. Zip codes don't stop criminals unfortunately, there were some attacks this summer of pedestrians and people sitting on their stoops in the "safe" neighborhood of Fairmount/19130. And lest you think I'm painting an idyllic picture of a neighborhood, far from it. 19121 still has a ways to go but I can only speak to my experiences and those of people I know that live there. 

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  • Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 44 votes
    11y

    ...

  • Lender · Rochester, NY · Member since 2014 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Troy Whitney  welcome! It is great that you are having success! You will have to follow up and let us know how it goes! 

  • Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 451 posts · 369 votes
    11y

    I've lived in Philly for the past 3 years, and those first two zip codes are at least adjacent to gentrifying neighborhoods. You would probably be safe to walk them in the daytime. That third one is a straight up ghetto, at best you would only be robbed. That is the neighborhood where Strawberry Mansion High School is located, persistently ranked one of the most dangerous high schools in the country. As long as the rent checks roll in, I guess it doesn't matter how bad the areas are, but I wouldn't suggest visiting these properties in person. I'm assuming each of these three was picked up sub-$50K?

  • Investor · Feasterville Trevose, PA · Member since 2015 · 107 posts · 31 votes
    11y

    I love how Greg put it.  He's right though.  I don't look at properties there without carrying.

  • Investor · Sicklerville, NJ · Member since 2014 · 17 posts · 0 votes
    11y

    @Troy Whitney 

    thats good to hear.  I am in the south jersey area which is only 20 mins from philly, I actually work in philly and was interested in starting to invest in philly. What property management company are you using? im looking for a good one myself

  • Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Gregory H.:

    I've lived in Philly for the past 3 years, and those first two zip codes are at least adjacent to gentrifying neighborhoods. You would probably be safe to walk them in the daytime. 

    I can't speak for the other two zips but 19121 is Brewerytown where I've lived for the last 3+ years. My wife and/or I walk our dogs multiple times a day (and night sometimes, unfortunately) in our neighborhood, walk to local eateries and coffee shops, have beers (at night!!!) at the local watering holes (RyBrew and Sarah's Place) and walk home etc. and haven't been shot or even mugged. Not even a threatening glare! We have 3 sets of young professional tenants in our quad and in the little over a year we've owned it, they haven't been shot, killed or even glared at either! 

    If you think 19121 is adjacent to a gentrifying neighborhood, you're sadly mistaken. 19130/Fairmount gentrified years ago and Brewerytown/19121 has been on the upswing for several years (realistically more as I know people that have lived and invested there for 12 years at this point) now with no end in sight. 

    Sorry for the cheerleader-y rant but, when someone that obviously knows nothing about an area that you happen to live in disparages it, it's tough to keep quiet! As a disclaimer, if you think you're "safe" anywhere in a big city, you're in for a shock. Zip codes don't stop criminals unfortunately, there were some attacks this summer of pedestrians and people sitting on their stoops in the "safe" neighborhood of Fairmount/19130. And lest you think I'm painting an idyllic picture of a neighborhood, far from it. 19121 still has a ways to go but I can only speak to my experiences and those of people I know that live there. 

  • Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Troy Whitney:

    So I just joined BP a few weeks ago and am excited to grow and learn from the collective legion of talent and experience on here.   I'm also excited to say I just bought my third property in Philly.  Now I know I may catch some skepticism here as I live in Seattle WA and so am having them professionally managed.   These aren't high class rentals, but cheap little houses that I think should cash flow nicely.  I've found a great broker agent/broker there, a few good contractors, and a what appears to be a really good management company.   I've done a fair amount of research on Philadelphia zip codes and have developed a pretty good sense of where to buy and where not to buy.   Two of these properties are in rapidly changing zip codes - one is in 19145 - South  Philly, one is not too far North of downtown 19121 and  one is a little further up  - 19132 and is in a decent, busy neighborhood and should have the best cash flow (32% cap rate).    The South Philly property I had prospective tenants lined up as soon as I posted an and just recently got a tenant that we carefully screened.  I'm hopeful the other two should be as easy to fill, though I'm still finishing up repairs on #2 and will start next week on #3.  My property manager (a pleasure to work with) tells me that as long as it's in a decent neighborhood, there's substantial demand for rentals in Philly.  Anyways - just wanted to introduce myself and see what other Philly investors come out of the woodwork. Thanks.

     Oh and congrats Troy! Great name BTW!!!

  • Investor · Feasterville Trevose, PA · Member since 2015 · 107 posts · 31 votes
    11y

    I wasn't referring to Brewerytown.   In 19132, I was looking at a house where they were blocking the street to do a drug deal right in front of me and not 2 rowhomes down from the one I was looking at.  

  • Developer · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 1k+ posts · 902 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Kevin Delaney:

    I wasn't referring to Brewerytown.   In 19132, I was looking at a house where they were blocking the street to do a drug deal right in front of me and not 2 rowhomes down from the one I was looking at.  

     No worries, I'm just a bit defensive of my little slice of paradise :) 

    To be fair, I lived in Fairmount for 5 years or so before moving to Brewerytown and, until I actually asked around and got to know the area, I was under the impression you couldn't walk around there at night and had to lock yourself in by 7pm...and I lived 5 blocks away. 

  • Investor · Gilbertsville, PA · Member since 2013 · 54 posts · 17 votes
    11y

    Hey I just love Philadelphia.  Great city and good people.  I came across this website which shows some data based on zip code.  On the front page enter your zip in to get real estate and population data.  I don't know how accurate it is so take it with a grain of salt.

    http://www.city-data.com/

    Joe

  • Real Estate Agent · Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2013 · 451 posts · 369 votes
    11y

    Troy S., to be fair, I will yield that I was painting the zip code in relatively broad strokes. The 19121 zip code is quite large and I'm sure you will agree that, in Philly, areas can turn quite bad within just a few blocks. Maybe in the Southern part of the zip code where Brewerytown is, you feel quite comfortable, but my sister worked at Young Scholars Frederick Douglass Charter School and it is laughable to think that she would feel safe walking there at night.

    You are also doing your rentals in your backyard so you know very well how far North you can reasonably go and still attract decent tenants. I wish we would have some cross streets for these properties.

  • Real Estate Investor · Audubon, PA · Member since 2009 · 13k+ posts · 8k+ votes
    11y

    Back in the day, Girard Avenue and Girard College used to be the dividing line; you did not venture north of there. So I have to agree with @Gregory H. that as things are gentrifying, you can now go north a bit more, but it is still block by block with the southern blocks being better than those farther north (for Brewerytown area). 

  • Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 44 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Gregory H.:

    I've lived in Philly for the past 3 years, and those first two zip codes are at least adjacent to gentrifying neighborhoods. You would probably be safe to walk them in the daytime. That third one is a straight up ghetto, at best you would only be robbed. That is the neighborhood where Strawberry Mansion High School is located, persistently ranked one of the most dangerous high schools in the country. As long as the rent checks roll in, I guess it doesn't matter how bad the areas are, but I wouldn't suggest visiting these properties in person. I'm assuming each of these three was picked up sub-$50K?

    Greg - yes I agree that 19132 has some pretty rough spots, but for this one there are some new developments relatively close and this property should cash flow very well.  It's a cash flow play for now.  And yes - I got them all for <$50k.

  • Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 44 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Joe Mulcahy:

    Hey I just love Philadelphia.  Great city and good people.  I came across this website which shows some data based on zip code.  On the front page enter your zip in to get real estate and population data.  I don't know how accurate it is so take it with a grain of salt.

    http://www.city-data.com/

    Joe

    Thanks Joe - I'll check it out.  I think Philly has some amazing opportunities and I really like the people I've been working with.

  • Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 44 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Chudney Wesley:

    @Troy Whitney 

    thats good to hear.  I am in the south jersey area which is only 20 mins from philly, I actually work in philly and was interested in starting to invest in philly. What property management company are you using? im looking for a good one myself

    Chuck - I'll be happy to send you their info.

  • Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 44 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jerry Padilla:

    @Troy Whitney  welcome! It is great that you are having success! You will have to follow up and let us know how it goes! 

    Jerry - will do for sure thanks!!

  • Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 44 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Steve Babiak:

    Back in the day, Girard Avenue and Girard College used to be the dividing line; you did not venture north of there. So I have to agree with @Gregory H. that as things are gentrifying, you can now go north a bit more, but it is still block by block with the southern blocks being better than those farther north (for Brewerytown area). 

     Steve - yes it does look like there's actually quite a bit of investment going into some areas up North, but yes - from one block to another things can change a lot. 

  • Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 44 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Troy Sheets:
    Originally posted by @Gregory H.:

    I've lived in Philly for the past 3 years, and those first two zip codes are at least adjacent to gentrifying neighborhoods. You would probably be safe to walk them in the daytime. 

    I can't speak for the other two zips but 19121 is Brewerytown where I've lived for the last 3+ years. My wife and/or I walk our dogs multiple times a day (and night sometimes, unfortunately) in our neighborhood, walk to local eateries and coffee shops, have beers (at night!!!) at the local watering holes (RyBrew and Sarah's Place) and walk home etc. and haven't been shot or even mugged. Not even a threatening glare! We have 3 sets of young professional tenants in our quad and in the little over a year we've owned it, they haven't been shot, killed or even glared at either! 

    If you think 19121 is adjacent to a gentrifying neighborhood, you're sadly mistaken. 19130/Fairmount gentrified years ago and Brewerytown/19121 has been on the upswing for several years (realistically more as I know people that have lived and invested there for 12 years at this point) now with no end in sight. 

    Sorry for the cheerleader-y rant but, when someone that obviously knows nothing about an area that you happen to live in disparages it, it's tough to keep quiet! As a disclaimer, if you think you're "safe" anywhere in a big city, you're in for a shock. Zip codes don't stop criminals unfortunately, there were some attacks this summer of pedestrians and people sitting on their stoops in the "safe" neighborhood of Fairmount/19130. And lest you think I'm painting an idyllic picture of a neighborhood, far from it. 19121 still has a ways to go but I can only speak to my experiences and those of people I know that live there. 

    Troy - yeah everyone seems to be talking about Brewerytown.   My broker told me Marvin Harrison owns a rental on the same block that I bought my little 2 bedroom on in that area. Great to hear all the feedback from you guys - nice to know there's some love for Philly in here - and yeah word to your mother on that name of yours lol :) 

  • Member since 2014 · 9 posts · 1 vote
    11y

    Hey Troy,

    I'm new around these parts (and also from Seattle) and was just wondering what kind of resources you used to find your ideal zip codes from such a distance?

    Thanks!

  • Rental Property Investor · East Meadow New york · Member since 2014 · 232 posts · 95 votes
    11y

    @Troy Whitney welcome to BP! Have you ever visited these parts of Philly that your investing in to get a feel for the area? Or did you do your due diligence via the Internet?

    Reason I ask, cause I also invest out of state. Although it's not cross country ;)

  • Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 44 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    Hey Troy,

    I'm new around these parts (and also from Seattle) and was just wondering what kind of resources you used to find your ideal zip codes from such a distance?

    Thanks!

     Hey David - well honestly, I was looking through Zillow listings in this area and was frustrated with the low cap rates - so I started to branch out and somehow stumbled on Philly.  I mean - in Seattle you might pay $150-$200+k for something that rents for say $1,000-$1,400/month.  In Philly you could pay $40-$50k for something that rents for $700-$1,400/month.  And Philly has big demand for rentals, especially in the right neighborhood.  Obviously it has much worse neighborhoods than Seattle, but if you pick the right ones, you can find great value.  What's amazing in Philly is you can literally have a $50k house one block over from a $150k house.  You can also find cheaper carpenters, etc. in Philly.  I have a good property management team if you're interested by the way, and a great broker too.  He does tons of volume on the cheap little houses in Philly.  

  • Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 44 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @John Geldert:

    @Troy Whitney welcome to BP! Have you ever visited these parts of Philly that your investing in to get a feel for the area? Or did you do your due diligence via the Internet?

    Reason I ask, cause I also invest out of state. Although it's not cross country ;)

     Hi John - I really just used Zillow, Google Maps, Google Street View and lots of help from people on the ground there.   The broker I use specializes in helping people find good value.  He seems to get new listings every few days by the handful.  I think he's the number one Re-Max broker in Philly so he obviously knows lots of people that deal with all aspects of the business there. Now I know some people would call me crazy for doing things this way, but so far things look good.  I think in some ways if I walk through a house that needs repairs I might almost get overwhelmed looking at it, but if I see pictures and then send in a couple of contractors and they tell me they can make it rent-ready for say $10-20k - then I can just run numbers and see if it makes sense.  Several deals looked good, but when the estimates came back the numbers just didn't make sense to me.   Now I'm not buying shells (there are a lot of those) just properties on decent blocks that can be ready to go in a couple of weeks.  All that said - I'm in the middle of two of these right now and we'll see how they go. One of them I'm a little nervous about but I got it on the cheap and I think it will make a good Section 8 rental.    I also have a large zip code map of Philly that I ordered on Amazon.  I went through those neighborhoods that surround the downtown core on Zillow and wrote down recent sales prices and listing prices in those zip codes, which gave me a pretty good perspective on which areas were  changing.  I've also had at least 2 people check out these properties for me.  So anyways, I'm rambling but I think you get the picture.    I almost feel like if I were there seeing busted up cabinets and smelling nasty carpet that I would get in my own way.  If I have professionals do that for me it takes a lot of that out of the equation.    Again - ask me in a month and I'll let you know how these go.  Property #1 was easy - it was in great shape and I found a good tenant within a month.  Ifind advertising the property in addition to what the management company did was better - I just used the pictures from the sales listing and reposted them back on the Postlets.  I had a dozen responses within the first 2 days.   Property # 2 should be ready to rent in a week or two.  #3 will probably take at least a month.   

  • Member since 2014 · 9 posts · 1 vote
    11y

    @Troy Whitney  Thanks for the tips!

  • Contractor · Seattle, WA · Member since 2014 · 137 posts · 44 votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    @Troy Whitney  Thanks for the tips!

    David you bet.  Would love to hear if you end up pursuing any deals there.

  • Philadelphia, PA · Member since 2014 · 178 posts · 64 votes
    11y

    @Troy Whitney welcome to the site! Please let me know if you have any Philly related questions!

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