ADVERSE POSSESSION SITUATION

ADVERSE POSSESSION SITUATION

Investor · Menifee, CA · Member since 2015 · 534 posts · 216 votes

Got a situation, deed shows owners names that have been dead for 14 years and neighbors state property vacant for at least that long. Property is free and clear but obviously taxes have been paid. So I have found no heirs to deceased of 14 years and nothing has been done to property to fix it up. Taxes were late and not paid for December 2014 so I paid for December and April to bring taxes current and changed tax address to my address and found out who has been paying taxes and doing nothing with the property. They actually called me cause I put a for sale sign in the yard to get a response and it worked. They were upset etc etc trying to say I was trespassing etc, the neighbors want me to fix the property up and no one has taken the steps to move the deed into there name and obviously do not have the money or resources to do so, but I do and took those first steps with the taxes. So pretty much it's a battle between me and the other tax paying people right now on the property. I want to go change the locks and start a process to remove the people who have been doing nothing with this property and have been paying taxes for I have no idea how long for dead deed holders. I'm going to contact a lawyer for info but THOUGHTS on the situation? Obvious there is more to the story but that is the basic jist of things.

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Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
11y
Originally posted by @Mike Flora:

taxes were $400 dollars between 3 people to bring current and these people are trying to do the same thing we are yet doing nothing with the property. Property vacant and nothing done with it for 15 years. People just changed tax address very recently and have no ties with the deceased deed names. It's up for the taking so my problem is not knowing how long these other people have been paying the taxes. The cloud is unknown at this time so the most I lose is like 125 dollars but can gain about 120K. 

So how do you know for a fact that the people paying the taxes are trying to adversely possess the property?  Did they tell you that?  How do you know they don't have ties with the decedent and/or their estate?

The property is up for the taking? Where did you get that? That would be like saying every vacant CA property that is tax defaulted and in need of repairs is for the taking.  AP is way more complicated than that.  

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  • Real Estate Investor · Longview, TX · Member since 2015 · 122 posts · 62 votes
    11y

    You should have contacted a lawyer first before you wasted (potentially) your money. You paid the taxes why?? I don't get it, nothing will default to you especially if someone has been paying the taxes even though they may have been late for years. There will still be a cloud on the title even if you go see a lawyer.

  • Investor · Menifee, CA · Member since 2015 · 534 posts · 216 votes
    11y

    taxes were $400 dollars between 3 people to bring current and these people are trying to do the same thing we are yet doing nothing with the property. Property vacant and nothing done with it for 15 years. People just changed tax address very recently and have no ties with the deceased deed names. It's up for the taking so my problem is not knowing how long these other people have been paying the taxes. The cloud is unknown at this time so the most I lose is like 125 dollars but can gain about 120K. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Mike Flora 

     my brother is doing one of these in CA right now... there is more to the adverse possession test than paying tax's...

    You will want to read up on the statute ...

    For my Brother its the neighboring property.. last owner died intestate.. he has paid the taxs going on the fifth year now.. he moved his fences over and has used it in a  hostile manner.  there is no debt other than tax's ...

    he will come this summer go for quiet title and I think he will get it. Its nice for him properties is worth 200k or more... And at the end of the day he might have 10k into it.

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Mike Flora 

      if this is some random property no where near were you live.. your chances of success are low

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y

    Whoever has been paying the taxes is way ahead of you in terms of ownership and possession.  You don't have a right to take over possession or to pay the property taxes just because you think the property should be fixed up.   Adverse possession means adversely possessing. But AP law doesn't provide any rights that allow for trespassing nor possession.  Tread carefully.  If you aren't careful you'll get yourself sued. 

    What is the relationship of the people paying the property taxes to the deceased owner/estate? 

  • Takaido_Higashi, Tokyo · Member since 2015 · 4 posts · 1 vote
    11y

    Did the neighbor live alone? In that case, he or she should have decided who will inherit property before decease so that no trouble will occur.

  • Investor · Menifee, CA · Member since 2015 · 534 posts · 216 votes
    11y

    right around the corner, done my research and no heirs found at all, vacant for 15 years, county recorder has only both dead names on the deed and property owner occupied by them. So 15 years vacant with no one ever seen around property, two dead deed holders since 2000 and late taxes which I paid up and changed addresses to me and the people who were paying it have no relation to dead owners whatsoever. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Account Closed 

      In my brothers case its a 10 acre tract with no improvements next to his 10 acres. I believe he will meet the test of open and hostile use.. pay tax's ,, no heirs or encumbrances.. what say you .. I have never done one before..

    I know in my early days of selling big ranch's in N CA.. it was common for ranchers to move fences over 5 to 10 feet.. along large sections of land.. but when you run 5 to 10 feet over 10 miles of fence line you end up possessing a lot of free acres... RANGE wars !!

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Mike Flora 

      Interesting but I think As K marie said you may be late to the party if someone is already ahead of you.. but if they fall off then maybe you step in and pay taxs for next 5 years and your first in line.

  • Investor · Menifee, CA · Member since 2015 · 534 posts · 216 votes
    11y

    the neighbors want me to fix it up!!! They actually like me lol and they don't know the other people paying the taxes. 

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Mike Flora:

    taxes were $400 dollars between 3 people to bring current and these people are trying to do the same thing we are yet doing nothing with the property. Property vacant and nothing done with it for 15 years. People just changed tax address very recently and have no ties with the deceased deed names. It's up for the taking so my problem is not knowing how long these other people have been paying the taxes. The cloud is unknown at this time so the most I lose is like 125 dollars but can gain about 120K. 

    So how do you know for a fact that the people paying the taxes are trying to adversely possess the property?  Did they tell you that?  How do you know they don't have ties with the decedent and/or their estate?

    The property is up for the taking? Where did you get that? That would be like saying every vacant CA property that is tax defaulted and in need of repairs is for the taking.  AP is way more complicated than that.  

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Mike Flora 

      well I think you know neighbors liking you has no merit.. you will need to read the statute and follow it then do a quiet title down the line. good luck

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Mike Flora:

    the neighbors want me to fix it up!!! They actually like me lol and they don't know the other people paying the taxes. 

    What the neighbors want has nothing to do with anything.  If you are in communication with the people paying the taxes, you may want to get more details.  How long have they been paying? Can they document it? What do they have to document their possession? You may be able to tack on to their possession and tax payments if they are interested in selling/assigning their rights to you.

  • Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    If the owner died intestate who would you be open and hostile to?  Here's what will probably happen to the property,  

    • Escheat: If the intestate leaves none of these heirs surviving, the intestate’s property escheats to the state.
  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Jay Hinrichs:

    @Mike Flora 

      well I think you know neighbors liking you has no merit.. you will need to read the statute and follow it then do a quiet title down the line. good luck

    The statute in CA is short and easy to understand.  Possess and pay the taxes for 5 years and it's yours.  The only way you get marketable title though is via a quiet title action.  At that point you have name and serve the heirs/estate of the decedent.  You have to do due diligence and prove to the court that you looked high and low before they'll just let you substitute service.

  • Investor · Menifee, CA · Member since 2015 · 534 posts · 216 votes
    11y

    I have done extensive research and the people paying the taxes for I don't know how long contacted me. Obviously they were not happy but they have no ties with the owner. They love right around the corner and saw the vacant property and are trying to do the same thing I am. I'm pretty sure of that. 15 years and deed not in there name yet??????? And they were late on taxes and just recently had the tax mailing address put to there address. I put a forsale sign up to get a response from them and I got it with a scared threat of me trespassing and them responding that they know the owners, which have been dead for 15 years now. I have an interesting situation and I'm contacting a lawyer but they have no rights at all right now and me paying back taxes could be the first step in taking over a property that needs to be fixed. No one has been inside for 15 years according to neighbors. No true squatters inside the property. Just other people living around the corner late on paying taxes that I paid up to try and get ahead of the game. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Account Closed 

      WE will soon find out... I don't think the state really has the means to track down folks that die intestate .. I think these properties either go to tax sale.. and are sold or neighbors do what my brother is doing paying tax's using the property and filing for a quiet title action.

    Like I said I have personally never done one.. I see property escheating to the state as more like excess cash left in a savings account that went dormant and the bank sends it to the state and the state takes it if no one claims it.. Or like me.. I paid off a loan and moved and of course forgot I had 9k in my escrow account for tax's etc. the bank could not find me so they sent my money to the state of OR>. well some one I had doing some judgement collections for me.. Said Hey I ran your name and you have money at the state.. I called the obscure department and sure enough got a check back for 9K that would have escheated to the state at some point.

  • Investor · Menifee, CA · Member since 2015 · 534 posts · 216 votes
    11y

    it's a 55 and up community. 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Account Closed 

      let us know how you make out

  • Investor · Central Valley, CA · Member since 2012 · 6k+ posts · 3k+ votes
    11y
    Originally posted by @Account Closed:

    If the owner died intestate who would you be open and hostile to?  Here's what will probably happen to the property,  

    • Escheat: If the intestate leaves none of these heirs surviving, the intestate’s property escheats to the state.

    Real property doesn't typically escheat to the state in California.  There's not such thing as having no heirs, it's just a matter of degrees of separation and/or finding them.

  • Investor · Menifee, CA · Member since 2015 · 534 posts · 216 votes
    11y

    lol guys I need to speak with a lawyer, but who is going to get mad at me paying taxes at this point when no one on the deed has been around for 15 years on a vacant property that no one has touched at all. No fix up, no actual squatting, no nothing except what I'm doing and that is

    Bringing the taxes current cause they were late. Don't see how anyone would have an upper hand on it cause if they did they would have paid the taxes and taken over the property and done something with it like me or you would. So far it's an opportunity that only holds a 150 dollar risk for me. 

  • Jerry W.Pro Member
    Moderator
    Investor · Thermopolis, WY · Member since 2012 · 4k+ posts · 4k+ votes
    11y

    I am sure that adverse possession laws vary from state to state but in my state it requires, open, notorious, hostile possession under color of title for 10 years.  that means you had to have some claim of title, like I thought the river was the boundary not the big rock, or I thought the fence was the boundary, the guy who put I bought it from said that was part of the land, etc.  in my state just seeing late taxes and paying them would probably never work.  there are laws here on how you acquire title by paying the taxes.  Good luck but I agree you should have seen an attorney first.

  • Investor · Honolulu, HI · Member since 2013 · 3k+ posts · 1k+ votes
    11y

    @Jay Hinrichs 

    @Account Closed Yes there are no probate cops and I agree you can probably have the use of a property for some time if you are paying the taxes.  But I believe the court will want to know what effort you made to contact heirs when you try to claim the property.  

    Then when you make the claim the assessor is going to reassess the property back to the ownership date and since you did not file a PCOR, preliminary change of ownership timely they can go back indefinitely to collect taxes owed which could be tens of thousands of dollars.  So you're out the initial taxes paid then the legal fees just for a chance at the property and even if you get it you could owe tens of thousands of back taxes.  I hope you didn't put any improvements on the property.

  • Investor · Menifee, CA · Member since 2015 · 534 posts · 216 votes
    11y

    oh I know it's a long haul but bringing taxes current is a start and over 15 years no one has come to see the property or do anything with it! No one took possession or a family member put the deed in there possesion???? Just sitting there for 15 years guys! Spoken to the elderly neighbors many times and no one has been around the property. Very very strange but IM ON IT!!! What's the worst that can happen at this point. Thanks for paying my late taxes for 400 dollars. Just wondering if anyone has some vital info for me at this point??? Make or break kinda stuff I can look into. You guys probably know more than me but the county, title company and my person info search have the same info and it two dead deed holders from 15 years ago with no heirs and it states it's owner occupied by them!!! 

  • Jay HinrichsBusiness Member
    Real Estate Consultant · Summerlin, NV · Member since 2014 · 45k+ posts · 66k+ votes
    11y

    @Account Closed 

      If this was the case you would have the state of CA selling surplus properties all over the place and I have never really seen that.. I see it in the mid west all the time.

    Many an investor buys surplus properties in the mid west.. I know INDY for example has tons of them I have financed a bunch of them in the day.

    But never really saw that in CA... And given that CA is the most populous state you would think they are also the most with people dieing intestate and therefor huge amounts of properties being sold off as surplus state owned.. And like I said maybe I missed it in all my years working in CA but I really never saw any get sold by the state.. other than at tax sales, and if the tax's are current there would be no reason to sell it at a tax sale.

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